I guess the idea was to surround Neymar and Messi with workrate and guys like Winaljdum. I'm surprised PSG wasn't in for Lo Celso. Playing well with Paredes for Argentina and better on the ball than the non-Verrati guys.
Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch
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I guess the idea was to surround Neymar and Messi with workrate and guys like Winaljdum. I'm surprised PSG wasn't in for Lo Celso. Playing well with Paredes for Argentina and better on the ball than the non-Verrati guys.
Tuchel did a good job at PSG, but like all of his previous jobs, he eventually loses part of his locker room and has issues with management. In PSG's case, I would often place the blame on Leonardo and NAK for those fall-outs, but Tuchel's managed that on his own plenty as well. As you said, we're already seeing him struggle, and winning a CL in mid-season is as much of a testament to a managerial prowess as it is a testament of very good fortune. As much as you wouldn't want to judge him on his last season at PSG, I wouldn't judge him on his CL win with Chelsea.
Pochettino is simply terrible, I haven't seen a more clueless manager in some time. If you want him at Manchester United, I'd be happy to deliver him myself. It's definitely too late to replace him before the Madrid tie, but if there was any way to get someone like Zidane in even a week before the game, I would make that switch. There is no hope with Pochettino, he is mentally checked out and is basically stealing a living in Paris. Out of 6 potential titles since he's been in charge, he has only won 2. That's just unacceptable for PSG, and I really think he will flop spectacularly at United as well.
I wrote him off as a top manager when Tottenham last the FA cup tie to Manchester united after going 1 nil up inside 15 mins in Jose's second season. His comments after the match were not comments I want a Manchester United manager ever making.
Surely not. He’s so underwhelming.
Ok. Now let’s look at the team Ancelotti had available when he took over.
Do you see any Di Maria, Neymar, or Mbappé in there ?
Pochettino can bring in Icardi to head in a late winner, Emery had Prime Cavani, do you know who G Hoarau is?
Godfrey Hoarau
Absolutely sublime player
Paredes pretty much replaced Lo Celso at PSG. The ill-advised and botched loan to Betis is partially the reason why PSG had to panic buy Paredes.
He never checked in. He had EVERYTHING to be loved by the fans, he was a former player and team captain, he never created any sort of bond, he gives the most boring press conferences ever, doesn't talk about the game or his choices, it's like having a robot for coach. He's disapointing at pretty much any level.
He apparently asked for the loan after he understood he wouldn't be a guaranteed starter.
I'm sure he did but it was still ill-advised when you look at the lack of depth PSG had and the structure of the deal was ridiculous. I'm not a fan of PSG and was still highly disappointed by that one.
Yeah I remember him being surprisingly okay as a 6 there.
Bayern and Dortmund gone from the dfb pokal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Aletico gone from the copa del Rey, Manchester city out of the carabao cup, yet when Pochettino goes out from the coupe de France, we have delirious fans going crazy. The standards for Pochettino must be ridiculously high, which I understand. He is in the top three managers in football right now.
I am not sure why this matter because even if he wins it like he did last season, the same fans will call it a nothing trophy. His focus is on the champions league and I m sure that he will put out his stronger team then, not give fringe players opportunities
More delusion, what a surprise.
Yea because what I said was true, that is why you had no argument against it. I am not afraid to put up my post history against anyone in this forum because I have great insight and i have been right more often than not. I am positive about Pochettino and this loss is just part of football, which some fans can't comprehend. I believe they think real life football is like fifa, where all result are given.
Regardless, what Pochettino needs to concern himself with is Messi. He seems more like a liability starting, rather than an asset. He has only manage a few goals in what is meant to be a weak league, yet he is one of the best player in football. Moreover his work ethic is one of the poorest i have seen from a professional. Obviously, he could have gotten more assist if his teammate was more clinical and if he was not so unlucky with the post, but regardless his contributions so far should make Pochettino think about dropping him for real Madrid game. If his form doesn't improve, he might have to make that big decision.
What? Look he is not as bad as the caf would have you think, reading this thread it feels like Tony Pulis is a god of football and possesses a standard of management prowess Pochettino can only aspire to. But he is certainly no where near the top three, he is a good not great manager, nothing more.
I like Paredes, I think he's got a very good all round skillset - no issues if you don't rate him. On the Mbappe/Messi/Neymar three that's why I specified 'when fit', even with one out you still are carrying multiple players defensively. It shouldn't be that baffling, it's regularly referenced by pundits and fans and was flagged even when Messi arrived. Regardless of whether you agree or not, I doubt it's the first time you've heard it.
Hei JPRouve. You seem to be fallowing PSG much closer then others. I'm sure you might have touched upon it but if you could give a perspective on a couple of things that I don't understand regarding the team. Barca of the past with Messi and Neymar was one of the best teams ever, with a Messi that even though younger he was not a pressing machine even then. So then, why is the current PSG team so marked out as impossible to make use of a forward line like that and regarding pressing and defending. I see the "laziness" of the front line as a prime excuse for why they are having difficulty, but this was not an issue at Barca. Admittedly it's mostly used by the Poch fan base but still.
It's not the first time I hear it but it's dumb and false. Dumb because it has become a talking point among pundits who don't actually think much and people just parrot it, I mean you put Neymar in that list when Neymar is defensively on par with Mané or Salah who as far as I know have never been said to be carried by the team and described as an issue for Klopp.
https://fbref.com/en/players/69384e5d/Neymar
https://fbref.com/en/players/c691bfe2/Sadio-Mane
https://fbref.com/en/players/e342ad68/Mohamed-Salah
That one is for fun and an actual regular member of the front three/four:
https://fbref.com/en/players/19cda00b/Angel-Di-Maria
The fact that we are in a thread about Pochettino and that people are contesting the general trend at PSG by ignoring more than 90% of their games which have been played with only two(Neymar and Mbappé) of these three players and that one of these two players doesn't actually fit the narrative is definitely baffling. I could actually understand the idea that Mbappé plus Messi needs a particular setup to compensate for their poor defensive work but that's beside the point because PSG issues aren't defensive or without the ball but specifically in transition from defense to the attack, their issue is that since 2019 they have gradually created less chances and less shots.
And then you have to wonder this, why would PSG or any club want a manager that cannot organize his team properly unless he has the perfect starting eleven? It means that this manager can't effectively affect your team performances, he adds nothing outside of putting names on a teamsheet. Why is he earning dozens of millions? So yes it's baffling because the fans and pundits that you are using as a point of reference are essentially telling you that the manager is useless and that we shouldn't expect a thing from him while not even knowing the context of the team they are talking about.
Now I want to go back to Liverpool because I believe that they play well as a team and people generally use Klopp as a reference when they try to have a pop at a player, "player x wouldn't start for Klopp". So as I shared above their attackers are not more defensively involved than a prima donna like Neymar, so I will jokingly claim that that's two players that Liverpool have to carry, now has anyone looked at Robertson and Alexander Arnold defensive contributions? They are not actually that productive either, so are Liverpool carrying multiple players defensively? Why no one use the same talking points when talking about Liverpool, what is the difference? Because all of Hakimi, Nuno Mendes, Bernat, Abdou Diallo have done more or as much as Liverpool starting fullbacks from a defensive standpoint. So something is amiss.
Here is the thing that pundits and fans seem to forget, every team is different because every team has different players that have different strength and weaknesses, every team has to compensate for weaknesses and accentuate strengths of their players. No team is made of perfectly balanced players, they all have to take into account that some players will need more help defensively and others will need more help offensively, that's the norm
The midfield and its organization, last season you could also mention the fullbacks who were bad with the ball and in transition. I said it earlier in the thread and it's a defense of both Pochettino and Tuchel, outside of Verratti PSG's midfield is made of average to below average Ligue 1 players. With their current organization PSG are bottlenecked by their midfielders specifically with the ball and in transition.
The key to prime Barcelona was Busquets, Iniesta, Thiago, Xavi and then Rakitic. Messi is a great player in the final third, arguably the best ever but like all attackers he relies on service, on the quality and timing of that service. Without Neymar and Verratti PSG are in trouble because they then rely more on players that aren't good in transition.
I could be wrong but to me it looks like Pochettino hasn't realized/accepted that his midfielders don't have the same attributes than Dembélé and Eriksen. And you could make the same point about his last months at Tottenham.
What's Poch's style?
My impression of his teams are that he's basically a better version of Ole that doesn't have much of a game plan beyond asking his star players to deliver.
My impression of his teams are that he's basically a better version of Ole that doesn't have much of a game plan beyond asking his star players to deliver.
Was Pochettino a 433 manager at Spurs?
I'm just asking because I was surprised with Rangnick using 433 recently after he has been widely known as a 2 striker formation manager.
Whilst Ajax and Ten Hag should be 433, would people call Pochettino a 433 manager aswell?
I'm just asking because I was surprised with Rangnick using 433 recently after he has been widely known as a 2 striker formation manager.
Whilst Ajax and Ten Hag should be 433, would people call Pochettino a 433 manager aswell?
I feel like you assumed I wouldn't look at the stats because they don't support your post at all & Pool do carry Salah.
I already addressed that Neymar wasn't as bad as Mbappe or Messi defensively and already said ADM gave more balance, you are confirming what I have already written. Read the stats, Neymar is decent in the first line of the press and woeful after it, this is a common theme with PSG attackers, they are not tracking runners, not making clearances or making defensive blocks.
The Liverpool comparison is not a good one, use the site you referenced in your post and go look at Firmino and Jota, they are defensive monstrosities, whichever plays, they allow Salah to function as he does. It's all about balance. Use that site and now go look at every single one of PSG's attackers, none of them come close defensively so you have a front three that works less and is less effective defensively - ADM, Icardi, Neymar would be their best three on paper and they are still way off. Football is a team game.
If pundits and fans are all saying the same thing and you don't agree, there's a small chance they are all wrong but a much larger chance they are correct.
That has always been a misconception. While it is true that Rangnick likes the 4222 as a system, he for example used a 433 most of the time at Hannover 96.
Thank you! So it's not that the front 3 are unworkable but rather an unbalanced team. Suppose that is why they went for Herrera then as a workhorse.
My minds telling me no, but my body, my body is also telling me no. Get Ten Hag in and let Poch go back to spurs when Conte implodes.
Maybe Poch just wants the United job and is basically going through the motions at PSG until that happens.
No manager looks great at PSG unless they win everything, Poch would be a different animal at United.
I am defending Poch a lot but id be happy with either Poch, ETH or Potter.
I do have a soft spot for Potter, I think giving Potter a chance would be great .. he has massive potential imo and would be nice to see someone like him achieve big things at United.
No manager looks great at PSG unless they win everything, Poch would be a different animal at United.
I am defending Poch a lot but id be happy with either Poch, ETH or Potter.
I do have a soft spot for Potter, I think giving Potter a chance would be great .. he has massive potential imo and would be nice to see someone like him achieve big things at United.
To be fair, that wasn't the impression most had of either his Southampton or his Spurs teams. They looked well organized on the whole, I'd say - he obviously failed to get a tune out of Spurs in his last season.
But there was a reason why he was highly rated at Southampton - and also at Spurs before it went a bit to shit.
I haven't followed him very closely at PSG - but my impression is that, yes, they do indeed resemble us under Ole to a degree: failure to implement a consistent playing style, depending on individual brilliance (up front, mostly), etc.
But, again, that sort of football - obviously - isn't what his reputation, as such, is based on.
Tuchel’s PSG played some nice football, Poch’s PSG is dross.
There is several issues here, first PSG have mainly started with Di Maria and/or Icardi, Di Maria is a starter for PSG when fit which again makes your point just weird because it invalidates everything you said. I don't know how to make it clearer your opinion of PSG is based on a context that doesn't actually exist, you targeted players that mainly don't play together, the players that mainly played are the ones that you described as the best three plus Mbappé who has been by far their best player during the past 12 months. You are basically supporting my point that balance is provided with other players who are meant to compensate for their teammates, Neymar is better defensively than Mané or Salah while Di Maria is excellent defensively and they are both starters, then you have Mbappé and/or Messi. You recognize and accept the balancing act for Liverpool but ignore it for PSG, it would be like me ignoring that Firmino and Jota are excellent support players and provide balance. I will also add that Klopp organized his midfield in a way that allows them to cover for their very attacking fullbacks who are less productive defensively than for example PSG's.
And all that is why I used Liverpool as an example, we both know that they have multiple players that need to be covered and supported, no one complains about it because Klopp organized his team in a way that works despite glaring individual issues. If you judge their players individually you will end up with the same boneheaded takes that we see with PSG. That's what Football being a team sport means, it means that the sum and combination of players strength and weaknesses have to be taken into account in order to form a cohesive team, it doesn't mean that players don't have weaknesses or can't have them.
And if pundits and fans use a context that has barely occured under Pochettino since January 2021 which is that Neymar, Mbappé and Messi start together in a front three then it's pretty easy to see that they have no clue about what they are talking about. They are building an image that is based on a small sample, it makes no logical sense to build a narrative that ignores 90% of games.
You keep taking quite an aggressive tone but clearly aren't reading or are mistranslating, this about PSG's front three (whatever the team selection). You presented some stats to prove a point, those stats actually disproved it but you're now ignoring it and ploughing ahead?
- Neymar is not better than Mane overall defensively, the stats prove he is better on the press but Mane is relatively close to him. Whereas in broader defensive play, Mane destroys Neymar who ranks in the 99th and 97th percentile (with 1 being the best and 100 being the worst) for clearances and blocks. This means Mane is doing more work deeper on the pitch and that is something that is recognised by all pundits, managers etc. as a huge part of his game and has been for yonks.
- ADM is good defensively - better than Neymar for sure - but he is still lacking when it comes to deeper defensive actions (a trend in all of PSG's front line).
- I asked you to go look at the other PSG attackers for a reason and then contrast them to Jota or Firmino. Their defensive stats are insane and Icardi's are average - he ranks high for interceptions and quite high clearances (assuming from corners/FKs) but he's nowhere near his Pool counterparts.
So when it comes to how a team plays defensively do you think that pressures and tackles are as relevant as blocks and clearances for attackers? Would you agree with the idea that clearances and blocks are essentially linked to set pieces situations when it comes to attacking players? I assumed that no one would look at attackers and point at clearances or blocks, those are defensive players stats, they are the ones expected to be in these situations often, conversely I won't look at pressures when it comes to a CB because he isn't supposed to be in that situation as often particularly in a dominant team.
I don't try to be aggressive but you are confusing because first PSG issues aren't defensive, it's not why people have issues with Pochettino, secondly because PSG attackers aren't particularly worse defensively than others when it comes to stats relevant to attackers and then you rightfully mentioned that Football was a team sport which is why I included the fact that for Liverpool the fullbacks do less defensively than others, PSG being an example and you didn't care for it, the point of that mention was to show you that teams have to compensate differently to different contexts,, the role of the manager is to find those compensations.
A more productive conversation would be around their midfielders and fullbacks, Liverpool players are significantly better at moving the ball, you can check the progressive carries and passes stats. And the problem for PSG is about moving the ball smoothly. Liverpool has midfielders that are as productive defensively if not more and are also far better with the ball.
They are all different defensive actions, you can't really "clear" the ball near the opponents goal, for example, so we can infer a higher # of clearances will be from defending deeper. I don't see why blocks and clearances would be solely linked to set pieces although if you look at Icardi (who is decent in the air) my guess would be he ranks high on clearances is because he's also contributing defensively from corners/set pieces.
I have been reading the stats in more detail and I am actually incorrect on how Neymar plays versus Mane - Mane presses/tackles better higher up the pitch than Neymar but Neymar is busier in the 2nd and 3rd defensive parts of the pitch. The difference seems to be Mane is much better at successfully pressing (90th percentile for successful pressures versus 48th for Neymar - for example even Salah is higher than Neymar in 50th) so Neymar is trying more and has good work ethic, he's just not particularly efficient.
I agree issues for Poch are not solely defensive, I guess I'm thinking of what we know about him as a coach and how he usually sets up a pressing system which is a big part of how his Soton and Spurs teams created chances. What I do find weird is Wijnaldum, who we obviously know works well in a system where the CMs have to be workhorses, doesn't seem to be able to cement a starting spot from what I can see? Agree on the fullbacks, Pool's whole game plan is reliant on Robertson/TAA and I do think this is something you can rightly criticise Poch for at PSG because he certainly has the players and we know how he used Walker/Rose etc. at Spurs to good effect.
I've not been following PSG enough but I wouldn't read anything into an individual statistic that says "successful pressures". Pressure is by essence a very collective-based component of the game.
I think every player in the world would be more successful in pressing the opposition as part of a team that practices a better and more cohesive pressing style. And Liverpool is certainly among the best, if not the best team in the world at pressing their opponents. Which inevitably would give even their laziest player better stats than some very hard-working ones in other teams.
Agreed Pool are one of the best at it but only Salah has poor stats, Mane you can see is very aggressive in the 1st line of the press (80th for pressures, 97th for tackles and 90th for successful pressures).
I can see how people deliberate about Mane v Neymar v ADM etc. defensively, I think the clear difference when you just look at the front threes between the team PSG need a Jota type player.
As a side note, I agree re stats and interpretations but we have to debate about something...at least the domestic break is soon over
I dont understand how managers can be written off so young like that.
Now we can add Manchester United drawing to minnows Middleboro now and they would have gone to pk if the same criteria was met. As stated before, to many kids on this forum that doesn't understand how football work. Football is unpredictable. There is an unnatural bias toward Pochettino in this forum that needs to be researched. I feel that bias comes in two forms. Fans that rather have ten hag, so they do anything possible to undermine Pochettino. And the other bias is just from people who doesn't understand football that much.
Nevertheless, congratulations to nice. They came with a gameplan of going to pk and it worked. Back to the point of alot of top teams going out of domestic cup competition this year, I wonder if Cafe favorite ten hag has done that yet. @Cheimoon how has Ajax being doing in domestic cup? You seem like you know most about that club on here
Nevertheless, congratulations to nice. They came with a gameplan of going to pk and it worked. Back to the point of alot of top teams going out of domestic cup competition this year, I wonder if Cafe favorite ten hag has done that yet. @Cheimoon how has Ajax being doing in domestic cup? You seem like you know most about that club on here
2 trophies out of 6 for Pochettino, understand that.
Won both their games so far scoring 13 and conceding 0 in 2 games. They've got Vitesse in the quarters next Tuesday? You can bump the thread after that I guess.
There is indeed an unnatural bias on here. Have you ever talked to anyone about your obsession? It must be a heavy burden to carry.
I'm no Ajax expert, I would just repeat @RedSky's comment. Ajax experts are rather people like @BrilliantOrange, @Terranova, or @AjaxCunian. And of course @KirkDuyt for some balance.
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