Basically every person in the world would be upset I would guess, the traveller way of life does not match up well with the rest of the world's.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
On Jimmy Carr and all of this. Everyone has a right to like it or be appalled. If you like it watch it, if you are appalled don't subscribe to Netflix. You don't ban it, you just don't make it a worthwhile commodity. Where and how we spend our money is one of our loudest voices. Its about margins. Trump was dumped when he crossed the line from 'all exposure is good exposure' to 'toxic for the brand'. Same with Rogan, the retrospective deletion is them protecting their product.
Ah Carr is not an idiot, he wilfully treads the line and is also a clever marketer. I think he's a bit of a whore who makes tasteless jokes that lack malice. He balances it with lots of self deprecation to level out the power dynamics.
I don't like jokes that punch down but very few people can do it with the lack of venom that Carr can.
That said if he was hounded out of netflix by punters for basically making cash off racist jokes I wouldn't see it as a huge tragedy.
It’s not racism at all.
the fields near where I live have travellers on them about twice a year despite the best efforts of the council to stop them.
£40k clear up each time, fly tipping, dogs stolen etc.
On my road each house on one side of the road had a nail through a car tyre to make it flat.
if the nail is still there in a couple of days the house gets broken into. Police know this is a traveller strategy and coincidentally only happens when they are around.
So no, I don’t want them anywhere near me or my family.
That seems a very imprecise strategy in London, given at my old flat I used to regularly have to park in the neighbouring streets or some way from my place cos it was always so rammed.
It’s mostly semi detached houses and the street isn’t that busy with parked cars so it’s fairly straightforward to know which car belongs to which house.
Anyway I am a massive nimby when it comes to travellers. I can’t see that ever changing if I’m honest.
But travellers / gypsies are classed as a race legally - substitute traveller for “black person“ or “Muslim” or pretty much any other minority in these types of posts and you wouldn’t get away with it. Years ago people would have been saying similar things if they were faced with a load of blacks or Asians being moved into their area. Sadly Travellers / Gypsies seem to be the one minority group that are still fair game.
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Ah fair enough, that's a posher part of town. My last two flats have been in four or five storey converted terraces where you haven't got a clue who exactly lives where.
It's quite preposterous to call travellers a race, isn't it? Is Tyson Fury a different race from other white blokes? A different culture, yes.
The reason they are widely disliked is that they are the only semi nomadic people left in Europe and therefore don't really fit in anywhere. It's not an easy issue. My wife works for the social service here in Belgium. We don't have travellers, but plenty of Roma. They generally don't trust anyone from the outside and are likewise not trusted by the rest of society. Very hard to help them.
Similar to the argument about Jews that started this debate I guess
Right but if the police did their job and caught them committing crimes then presumably they'd stop? "Moving them on" isn't really a solution is it? Maybe dividing them out from other people is one of the reasons they act like that? I'm not saying "stop being dicks to travellers and they'll stop committing crimes" but it has to be the starting point surely?
if the propensity to commit crime and anti social behaviour, fly tipping etc was as high in the Muslim, Christian, Sikh, whatever population as it is with the travelling community then I’d have problem with them too.
Yes you do have a point re the police being unwilling or unable to do anything about it.
Perhaps it is a chicken and egg scenario where things have got like they are.
However, seeing a load of human excrement and used bog roll around where kids play and people walk their dogs does tend to piss you off.
They are a legally a different ethnicity and discrimination based on ethnicity is racism. It's wilful for people not to understand.
Understandably. I just think we have to think a bit deeper about this sort of issue - letting the government off the hook for poverty and crime can't be the right way to solve it.
Part of the problem is that they move on, so it's hard to convict.
I would say that travellers and gypsies are two different things in the UK, gypsies being romany and always nomadic and travellers being Irish folk who've shut down over the summer and travel round the UK. At least that's what I've gathered from talking to them.
It's not really the same thing though, as I've alluded to in my post.
The more I have thought about this in recent days, the more I have realised that what the whole debate about the Jimmy Carr joke overlooks is why it actually works, once you get any sense of the construction behind it. We should be asking why that line gets a laugh in our society.
It sounds like Jimmy's reflecting more on what it is okay to joke about. He's a shock magnet but he knows full well a joke about Jews isn't going to work. Ever. But gypsies? That's passable for... reasons. It's why the comedy works as a reminder about how we've deigned certain things more okay to joke about than others. The implicit message behind it I think being that none of these things should be okay to joke about.
Tbh I don't think the original joke is funny despite the laughs from the audience. His follow-up point is the best thing about the whole gag.
Tbh I don't think the original joke is funny despite the laughs from the audience. His follow-up point is the best thing about the whole gag.
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Yup. Hence his follow up joke was about Jehovah’s witnesses and not any of the other (more aggressively protected) religions.
He'd get a laugh if the joke was about jews though I bet, with his delivery etc...
The shitstorm would be another level obviously.
If there's any silver lining (and I'm even horrified to use that term) then it's alerted the public just how extensive the Holocaust was in terms of its scope in addition to eliminating Jews entirely.
None of this excuses making jokes out of it, especially at the expense of any particular group over another.
| Jews | 5–6 million | [1] |
|---|---|---|
| Soviet civilians | 5.7 million (excl. 1.3 million Jews) | [2] |
| Soviet POWs | 2.8–3.3 million | [3] |
| Poles | 1.8–3 million | [4][5][6] |
| Serbs | 300,000–600,000 | [7][8] |
| Disabled people | 270,000 | [9] |
| Romani | 130,000–500,000 | [10][11] |
| Freemasons | 80,000–200,000 | [12][13] |
| Slovenes | 20,000–25,000 | [14] |
| Homosexuals | 5,000–15,000 | [15] |
| Spanish Republicans | 3,500 | [16] |
| Jehovah's Witnesses | 1,250–5,000 | [17] |
I’ve seen the figures for all those groups of people before but it’s a first for Freemasons! How did they upset the Nazis?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing- maybe they're normally lumped in with political prisoners/communists, which don't seem to be in the table. I guess most would be ethnic German?
Holocaust Memorial Day Trust:
The Nazis rejected Freemasonry, banning it in January 1934, partly because it was associated with Jews.
The secrecy associated with Masonic rituals has always made the organisation susceptible to conspiracy theories. The Nazis believed that the Freemasons were part of a conspiracy working against the interests of German nationalism. Criticism of Freemasons was a regular theme in Nazi propaganda – often framed in antisemitic discourse about the threat from ‘World Jewry’.
Thousands of Freemasons were persecuted by the Nazi regime and many were imprisoned in concentration camps, classed as political prisoners.
More early days of the persecutions? I had it in my head the political prisoners were rounded up first, then the Jewish and other targeted minorities, although my history degree was over 25 years ago now.
The propaganda was not exactly subtle, looking at it.
I would also argue there is a historic component, at least in Germany it's we are made pretty aware of how Jews and Travelers were caricatured by Nazi propaganda to have some very specific external characteristics, so essentially identifying them as being a different race. So yeah labeling prejudice against Jews and Travelers, at least from a historic standpoint, as racist, seems entirely justified.
His follow up isn't believable at all, imo and agree the joke wasn't even funny in the first place.
There's something quite pathetic about a man closing in on 50 using the words 'edgy as hell' to justify a joke like that.
Well, I’ve learnt something there.
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and his friends.https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/was-there-really-an-adele-transphobia-controversy/
Probably could go in a few threads but here for now.
feck me, what’s the world gone to 
“Everyone should be able to identify as whatever they’re comfortable with and we need to be tolerant of that!!”
“I love being female”
”feck off!!”
“Everyone should be able to identify as whatever they’re comfortable with and we need to be tolerant of that!!”
“I love being female”
”feck off!!”
All of those articles literally just quoting the same one Twitter user.
Amazing stuff
Amazing stuff
I've seen a few reports that Adele sparked a controversy but find it hard to believe really
unless "controversy" means a few knobheads on twitter these days
unless "controversy" means a few knobheads on twitter these days
The fact that a woman saying ‘I love being a woman’ could offend anyone (on Twitter or otherwise) is mind bogglingly stupid.
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I'm not white and I always pick the yellow hand as well. Makes me feel like a Simpson.
I think they took offence at her comments being interpreted as a criticism of the awards being gender neutral for the first time.
No idea who “they” are, mind you. As @Tarrou said, probably just a few knobheads on Twitter. Although that seems to be all it takes to generate a load of headlines these days.
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Not often I see a tweet in this thread and think fair enough but fair enough. Hadn’t thought about the white being raceless thing. That’s a good point. Still think I might stick with yellow though.
Fair dos.
Yea there’s always going to be some weirdo on Twitter or online somewhere taking an issue with innocuous things (although it looks like this isn’t the case here going by entropy’s tweet).