Taiwan confirmed earlier today that 9 Chinese fighter jets entered their air defence zone. Not sure if coincidence.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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Taiwan confirmed earlier today that 9 Chinese fighter jets entered their air defence zone. Not sure if coincidence.
What would a European super army look like though? I was never as averse to the idea as most British people but I'd be genuinely interested in how people see it?
-As a replacement for the national armies? Are we talking about a genuine USA style military, where the army acts as the attack and defence force for the whole EU? If so, how do the countries reconcile the fact that the individual member states have such varied foreign policy objectives, in a way that the different sections of the USA/Russia/China do? France has a totally different foreign policy than Poland for instance and is far more willing to project its power.
-As an ultimate replacement for NATO? I could see that as being more realistic but are the European countries willing to lose the American safety umbrella they operate under any time soon?
I doubt it. France has the nuclear capability to destroy Russia.
Yeah seems like they have 10 times the budget. That should at least give them a headstart?
NATO isn't there to mediate intra-European conflict. It's there to protect NATO members in Europe from outside attack, primarily from Russia.
If one European nation attacks another, then yeah, trans-continental organisations and alliances are going to be complicated, whether that's the EU or NATO. A member can always go rogue or be in dispute with another member.
I'm sorry but that's a horrible and cowardly mentality. And a complete lack of understanding of the realities of war as well. The mass expulsion of people who don't belong there anymore because it is no longer "their" land. The slaughter of innocent civilians in the process. Putin wants a lot more than just Ukraine, and wishing for a quick end here is naive and it won't just end here. That swift end you want anyway is Ukraine to no longer exist, a country with almost 50 million people. 50 million people who will then be viewed as 2nd rate citizens. People who will be oppressed. Kicked out of their homes.
There isn't any option other than fighting back until Putin either retreats, or is defeated in some way here unfortunately.
Awesome a key board warrior limited to insults with an opposing opinion. People who know feck all tend to resort to that. You don’t know shit about football yet you have quite the balls to make a statement like that.
Sure keep supporting a puppet who can barely speak as a “president”.
Cute insults through your computer You showed your true colors their.
Ya what he's saying is that no one should trust Putin not to launch a nuke in a last-ditch scenario.
I have no idea how a modern war in Europe between Russia and the US would go.
The first few pages of this thread are fascinating in retrospect. @VorZakone can you please stop guaranteeing things won’t happen, for all our sakes.
I was under the impression that especially americans are arguing against a european super army - but in favor of stronger national armies, which would strengthen NATO, but not Europe's own autonomy and situation as much as it would by creating a european army. A united european army could become one of the strongest militaries in the world.
Yes, I'd see it as a complete replacement for national armies. I, personally, feel that european unity is the only way forward to preserve our way of life and maybe even have impact on a global scale for the better. In terms of individual member states, as I stated before, it's currently utopia, I'd prefer a (near) complete abolishment of national states, resulting in a european super state. I know it's not an easy task and the current EU system shows no signs of actually being able to unify so many different interests, but I think that ultimatively, we will end up in a situation where we need to accept, that in order to stay relevant, there's no other possibility but to unify as a continent. And not just in an economic way, but as a legitimate european super state. Again: it's utopia, but that'd be my vision. There's much, much more that unifies us, than we might think at first. Cooperation is the logical way forward, "state-evolutionarywise", as we all started as families, then built tribes, kingdoms etc....you get the idea.
Yea, soon the most fearful charles de gaulle aircraft carrier will be deployed towards russian waters and will strike fear into Russia's heart.
It's not just about possibility, it's about credibility, just as Putin know shows. Everybody believes him, when he says, if another country intervenes, there'll be consequences never seen before (meaning nukes).
Doesn't really matter if it go down to nukes. Everybody loses really.
Besides even if the USA army is more advanced, Russia is second and that shouldn't be underestimated considering the damage that can be done.
well, I think there'd be not much of Europe left, to be honest, if anything
Makes you wonder what people stand for nowadays. Our country wouldn't exist if people thought like that in 1992. Hell, even Hitler would have quite comfortably taken whole Europe. Speaking of That'sHernandez's opinion of course.
No, of course I understand damage would be immense. I just reckon Russia going into open war with US and NATO would basically be suicidal for them. It’s a war they couldn’t win.
Yeah, its a really good idea to send Europeans in Mali to do France's dirty work.
The world needs less armies - not more. And who exactly are the reliable partners? Germany who pulled the strings in the Yugoslavian war? Or Germany and France who decided to save their banks in favor of other European countries.
If a European Army is created, will be only due to France, Belgium and Germany deciding that other European countries should not buy US weapons - only their weapons, not because they want a secure and autonomous Europe.
Klitschko, Kasparov and Shevchenko react to Russian invasion of Ukraine
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/02/24/62176c0846163f528a8b4629.html
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/02/24/62176c0846163f528a8b4629.html
I don't think Americans, let alone actual experts, think that a European "super army" is ever going to happen. Too many competing interests in the bloc, too utopian of an idea. Stronger national armies under an EU bloc though would be the closest that one could get in the near to medium term and that would be very welcomed by the US, it would allow them to remove troops from Europe and redeploy assets to East Asia, the more strategically important region for the Western world as a whole in the long term.
I think the people of Russia have a major part to play in diffusing this.
Keep up the protests! Tell the world you’re against this craziness.
Keep up the protests! Tell the world you’re against this craziness.
None of us would ever know. Maybe a few people on the international space station might be the ones to survive.
First time it’s usually a fine and maybe a few days (up to 15 days, I think) in jail. If you get arrested for attending a protest for the second time it can lead to some serious time, like a few years in prison. That’s if you haven’t done anything wrong, if they pin any kind of a violent charge on you (like throwing a snow ball or a plastic cup, both are real cases by the way, in the direction of policeman), you’re fecked. But the most absurd case was against a guy that got detained during a protest — as usual, 5 or 6 policemen grabbed him and one of them fell when they were bringing him to their bus… that policeman had misplaced his shoulder and sued the guy that they were carrying, successfully.
Guys, I think the Germans are getting ideas again...
fighting over oil and weapons of mass destruction was so much better, I guess
Yes, I think our european neighbours are much, much more reliable than the US. All of them, bar maybe hungary.
Yeah.Absolute legend!Are you Russian?
A United European army makes extremely little sense from just about every perspective there is.
The only solution here is that every member of NATO keeps increasing spending on their military.
The only solution here is that every member of NATO keeps increasing spending on their military.
maaan, I knew at some point someone would make such a comment. No, I don't want a grandgerman state in whole of Europe! I want a grandeuropean state.
Unfortunately it's a lose lose situation. There's not much that can be done. On one hand you have a world war and millions (maybe even billions) dead and on the other you have an energy crisis in Europe like never before.
I do understand cutting off the gas is the lesser of 2 evils but there's not an easy decision here.
Russia second ahead of China?
Russia won't go into open war with US and NATO alone for sure. If that happens there would be a WW 3 and in case like that who knows what happens? If China join them things can get really ugly. It's a plethora of possibilities and permutations, so yes it will be suicidal to go alone, but if they have ideas like that floating they most probably will have allies..
It's tight, but I've seen them usually placed 2nd:
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php
Proud to be Lithuanian, fans are chanting “Putin Xhuylo” = Putin’s a dick. This should be sang in all of stadiums in all of sports from now on.
Yup. Its a horribly misguided and naive opinion. "Just let them take it and it'll be over"... Come on, really? Like you say. We wouldn't have a country to call home if people took that mentality.
Allegedly they are. They have more tanks, more aircrafts but a dozen less subs. It could quickly change but China are considered as very powerful mainly in the context of fighting in or around China.
It can be changed though, no one (assuming that the US are ok with it, which at this stage are) can stop that if the Germans want it.
What would you do with Ireland, determinedly neutral? Just ignore them and let them have the benefits without paying the price? I'd suggest agreeing Ireland still pays 2% but could spend it all on medical support for the armed forces. Although it could be argued that was releasing money for others to spend on fighting. It seemed to work with conscientious objectors in the wars though, many of them served as stretcher bearers and medics, just a thought.
Unfortunate truth is that people in western Europe are too comfortable to give up their lifestyles etc., for something that’s even so close to them. I hate it, this mentality is perfect for dictators like Putin to exploit.
Yeah because Europeans didn't participate in Syria and Libya over oil..
In Europe we can't find a solution over simple things. A new army will just create more mess, more expenses that could go somewhere else and more warmongering.