Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Rampant Red Rodriguez said:
We had no fit CB at one point, many of us have forgotten about that. One of the main reasons why we went for Maguire was his fitness record was ace and hardly ever injured.
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Which is a stupid reason to spend £80m on someone, just underlines my point. Poor
decision making, poor planning and this only causes more problems further down
the line.

This stupid logic of who else could we have bought or what else could we have done is exactly why we’ve been going nowhere post SAF. It’s people not up to the job just shrugging their shoulders or deluding themselves everything is on track when they make a huge mess.
 
Roboc7 said:
Which is a stupid reason to spend £80m on someone, just underlines my point. Poor
decision making, poor planning and this only causes more problems further down
the line.

This stupid logic of who else could we have bought or what else could we have done is exactly why we’ve been going nowhere post SAF. It’s people not up to the job just shrugging their shoulders or deluding themselves everything is on track when they make a huge mess.
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Better than having no fit CB and no decent CM and getting relegated isn't it?. Not that I would mind too much because it'll get rid of the egoistic deadwood straight away :rolleyes:
 
Rampant Red Rodriguez said:
Better than having no fit CB and no decent CM and getting relegated isn't it?. Not that I would mind too much because it'll get rid of the egoistic deadwood straight away :rolleyes:
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Getting relegated is a bit dramatic, again just roving my point if that was kind of logic used to sign someone for a world record fee.

There is no justification for paying £80m for Maguire, it’s as simple as that. Teams have bought players to every bit as good or better for way less, we’re the only ones stupid enough to pay £80m for him.
 
Ole is quite simply the worst manager we’ve had post SAF. The state of the club, playing squad, recruitment, coaching and fitness levels are as bad I remember. All that talking him leaving the club in a better state is utter rubbish. He created an environment for mentally weak players to thieve in a world of blame shifting and hiding.
RR and his team have the impossible task that won’t be achieved as the payers will do their usual.
 
Rampant Red Rodriguez said:
Better than having no fit CB and no decent CM and getting relegated isn't it?. Not that I would mind too much because it'll get rid of the egoistic deadwood straight away :rolleyes:
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The team in 2019 was getting clean sheets against Liverpool, the Champions of Europe to be, with this CB pairing. (+ Bailly and Jones available). There must have been other alternatives to burning the entire budget on an average CB like him.

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soapythecat said:
Ole is quite simply the worst manager we’ve had post SAF. The state of the club, playing squad, recruitment, coaching and fitness levels are as bad I remember. All that talking him leaving the club in a better state is utter rubbish. He created an environment for mentally weak players to thieve in a world of blame shifting and hiding.
RR and his team have the impossible task that won’t be achieved as the payers will do their usual.
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Agree. And let's not forget RR is not our new manager, he is just stepping in until the manager arrives.
 
Wonder who spent money on those players, who extended/green lighted contract extensions of those players who should be long time gone from our books. He applied weights on our ankles just like other managers and left with bags full with cash, life is good.
 
Pintu said:
The team in 2019 was getting clean sheets against Liverpool, the Champions of Europe to be, with this CB pairing. (+ Bailly and Jones available). There must have been other alternatives to burning the entire budget on an average CB like him.

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So a clean sheet against Liverpool is your only measure of good defence?. Not the fact of conceding 54 league goals at the end of the season? You forgot to consider what injuries we have had in Jones and Bailiy.

And Ashley Young at Rb to be burned by pace every game who was a mid 30 former winger/am?. I'd rather have AWB to stop us getting bummed by attackers with pace..
 
Couple of rumors going round linking him with the Aberdeen job, only way that'd be a good job for him if he's able to break the top 2 but i doubt it.
 
A reminder that Solskjaer thought McTominay and Fred was a good starting pair of central midfielders for us. :wenger:
 
A dressing room severely damaged as a result of ineffectual leadership. Anyone that has coached any team sport, at any level, can tell you a fractured dressing room is a side effect of poor leadership.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
A dressing room severely damaged as a result of ineffectual leadership. Anyone that has coached any team sport, at any level, can tell you a fractured dressing room is a side effect of poor leadership.
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He make our players become whinebaby and weak mentally. Because Ole man management style is to keep everyone happy and smiling regardless of result. Want to go to holiday to Dubai ? Off you go lad. Play like shit ? Good job lad start next game. Trophies ? Its for ego lad. He let players to do anything they want and now we reap what he sowed. Ended up with bunch of lazy mentally weak players who keep leaking stuff to media when they are unhappy. He is the worst out of all managers post SAF. Rashford shit workrate could be indirectly attributed to his coaching for example. Imagine him strolling around like that under Pep. Would be benched immediately. Under Ole he can keep starting matches because Ole is too cowardly to upset someone
 
Jackal981 said:
He make our players become whinebaby and weak mentally. Because Ole man management style is to keep everyone happy and smiling regardless of result. Want to go to holiday to Dubai ? Off you go lad. Play like shit ? Good job lad start next game. Trophies ? Its for ego lad. He let players to do anything they want and now we reap what he sowed. Ended up with bunch of lazy mentally weak players who keep leaking stuff to media when they are unhappy. He is the worst out of all managers post SAF. Rashford shit workrate could be indirectly attributed to his coaching for example. Imagine him strolling around like that under Pep. Would be benched immediately. Under Ole he can keep starting matches because Ole is too cowardly to upset someone
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I don't believe things are always what they seem, if Ole was all smiles in front of the cameras and interviews it doesn't mean he was the same during his time with the players.

If we had such a weak mentality how do you explain all the comebacks during Ole's tenure ? And it's not 1 or 2 it happened numerous times. A weak mentality doesn't come with the PL record of away games undefeated.
Also on Ole he decided to sell the players he did not need/want and changed them with what he believed we needed. Everyone agreed that he did the right things in getting rid of the toxic players/deadwood.

The worst manager under SAF got us 3rd and 2nd in 2 consecutive seasons. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes as he surely did, which eventually got his sacked and for good reasons.
It doesn't make sense to compare Ole with Pep as they are leagues apart but nevertheless people should at least have the realism to observe things as they actually are.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
I don't believe things are always what they seem, if Ole was all smiles in front of the cameras and interviews it doesn't mean he was the same during his time with the players.

If we had such a weak mentality how do you explain all the comebacks during Ole's tenure ? And it's not 1 or 2 it happened numerous times. A weak mentality doesn't come with the PL record of away games undefeated.
Also on Ole he decided to sell the players he did not need/want and changed them with what he believed we needed. Everyone agreed that he did the right things in getting rid of the toxic players/deadwood.

The worst manager under SAF got us 3rd and 2nd in 2 consecutive seasons. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes as he surely did, which eventually got his sacked and for good reasons.
It doesn't make sense to compare Ole with Pep as they are leagues apart but nevertheless people should at least have the realism to observe things as they actually are.
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You can argue that Ole was no worse that other failed managers purely on results (the exact assessment depends on the subjective weight you place on non-major trophies vs League positions), but in terms of legacy he might well end up being significantly worse than LvG or Jose (and their legacy is failure, no doubt).

Under him we spent a fortune and are still in need of a huge squad reshuffle, and gave lots of undeserved contract extentions. The atmosphere at the club is not only toxic but hard to fix. We did not have anything comparable under LvG in terms of atmosphere, and toxicity under Jose turned out to be easily fixable at least. The only youngster that he promoted is probably not playing for us again. 2nd and 3rd place are not much use if you don't do anything in CL and leave the club struggling to compete for CL places anyway. And in any case, major benefit of top-4 is CL qualification, which Jose also achieved twice in a row, whilst filling the trophy cabinet at least.
 
Max_United said:
Under him we spent a fortune and are still in need of a huge squad reshuffle, and gave lots of undeserved contract extentions. The atmosphere at the club is not only toxic but hard to fix. We did not have anything comparable under LvG in terms of atmosphere, and toxicity under Jose turned out to be easily fixable at least. The only youngster that he promoted is probably not playing for us again. 2nd and 3rd place are not much use if you don't do anything in CL and leave the club struggling to compete for CL places anyway. And in any case, major benefit of top-4 is CL qualification, which Jose also achieved twice in a row, whilst filling the trophy cabinet at least.
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Re: Transfer spend - Ole spent same as Mou (in Net he spent lesser than Mou). Ole spent lesser than LVG as well when looking at spend/summer values.

Re: Atmosphere - The atmosphere under LVG improved slightly only because it became clear he was getting sacked at the end of the season, and the atmosphere under Mou was way worse. It improved after his sacking only because we brought in Ole

Re: Youngsters - It's not his fault that Greenwood turned out to be a cnut. And McT became an integral member of the team under Ole, unlike his predecessor, where he was played sometimes as CB to make a statement to the board

Re: CL places - Literally everyone missed CL places when they were sacked. This time around, Ole was sacked when we were 6 points from top 4 with 26 games to go. 3 points from 4th best top 6 club then, so it's not as if it was out of reach. When Mou was fired, we were 11 points from top 4 FYI. And Jose didnt finish in top 4 in 2 consecutive seasons by the way.
 
anant said:
Re: Transfer spend - Ole spent same as Mou (in Net he spent lesser than Mou). Ole spent lesser than LVG as well when looking at spend/summer values.

Re: Atmosphere - The atmosphere under LVG improved slightly only because it became clear he was getting sacked at the end of the season, and the atmosphere under Mou was way worse. It improved after his sacking only because we brought in Ole

Re: Youngsters - It's not his fault that Greenwood turned out to be a cnut. And McT became an integral member of the team under Ole, unlike his predecessor, where he was played sometimes as CB to make a statement to the board

Re: CL places - Literally everyone missed CL places when they were sacked. This time around, Ole was sacked when we were 6 points from top 4 with 26 games to go. 3 points from 4th best top 6 club then, so it's not as if it was out of reach. When Mou was fired, we were 11 points from top 4 FYI. And Jose didnt finish in top 4 in 2 consecutive seasons by the way.
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Ole spent more than Jose with nothing to show for except the top-4 cup. Ole spent a lot more than LvG, again with nothing to show for.

The atmosphere under Ole was shit as well. There was a lot of booing at our ground until he was sacked. And he overstayed his welcome by being a legend as a player, if anyone else would be in his place he wouldn't last until December 2019.

Fair enough on Greenwood, but you are forgetting that Jose wanted to promote him at 15 and McT got his debut with Jose and was considered a valuable member of the squad. He only played him CB in his final season, as you say to make a statement.

Sure when Mou was fired we were 11 points of the top 4, but everyone lost points and we bottled countless opportunities to get there. Basically if I remember correctly it was between us, Arsenal and Chelsea(?) (to bored to look it up).

Jose didn't finish top 4 in consecutive seasons but we did play Champions League 2 consecutive seasons. So mission accompliced(?) and with a cup won on the way.
 
Karlos PFC said:
Ole spent more than Jose with nothing to show for except the top-4 cup. Ole spent a lot more than LvG, again with nothing to show for.

The atmosphere under Ole was shit as well. There was a lot of booing at our ground until he was sacked. And he overstayed his welcome by being a legend as a player, if anyone else would be in his place he wouldn't last until December 2019.

Fair enough on Greenwood, but you are forgetting that Jose wanted to promote him at 15 and McT got his debut with Jose and was considered a valuable member of the squad. He only played him CB in his final season, as you say to make a statement.

Sure when Mou was fired we were 11 points of the top 4, but everyone lost points and we bottled countless opportunities to get there. Basically if I remember correctly it was between us, Arsenal and Chelsea(?) (to bored to look it up).

Jose didn't finish top 4 in consecutive seasons but we did play Champions League 2 consecutive seasons. So mission accompliced(?) and with a cup won on the way.
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No he didnt - Mou spent 7m more in Gross, and 27m more in net (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985). And regarding comparison with LVG, you need to look at spend per season.

2nd point is arguable as there is no metric, I dont think it was, but everyone will have their biases

4th point - Spurs were there as well. The point is everyone were dropping the points toeards the end then, just like teams are dropping points now. This time the gap to be covered is smaller. And regardless, in the last 21 games of that season, we had the 3rd most points in the division. Not sure if anyone hoped for more
 
anant said:
Re: Transfer spend - Ole spent same as Mou (in Net he spent lesser than Mou). Ole spent lesser than LVG as well when looking at spend/summer values.

Re: Atmosphere - The atmosphere under LVG improved slightly only because it became clear he was getting sacked at the end of the season, and the atmosphere under Mou was way worse. It improved after his sacking only because we brought in Ole

Re: Youngsters - It's not his fault that Greenwood turned out to be a cnut. And McT became an integral member of the team under Ole, unlike his predecessor, where he was played sometimes as CB to make a statement to the board

Re: CL places - Literally everyone missed CL places when they were sacked. This time around, Ole was sacked when we were 6 points from top 4 with 26 games to go. 3 points from 4th best top 6 club then, so it's not as if it was out of reach. When Mou was fired, we were 11 points from top 4 FYI. And Jose didnt finish in top 4 in 2 consecutive seasons by the way.
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The atmosphere improved after Mourinho left because he left, not because Ole came in. Mourinho at the end of his tenure had given up after his last summer transfer window and publicly antagonized half the squad. Ole's tendency to coddle players I'm sure did help with the mood initially, but just about anyone would've "improved" the atmosphere when the guy creating the toxicity left.

I realize these debates regarding Ole will just keep going forever because most people have their mind made up one way or another and will not be convinced otherwise. He's been the most polarizing figure here as a manager.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It's very difficult to win the Premiership against the current Man City side, if you do manage to get above them then you have to beat a Liverpool side with 5+ years playing under one manager.

I doubt very much any manager could takeover at United and win the league in 2-3 seasons. So any shortcomings Ole had were no greater or worst than others before (and probably after him)

During Ole's good moments it was wonderful to see United free scoring again, something he has only been able to achieve with this group. Since SAF retired I think Ole's reign has been the most enjoyable for me tbh.
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This is the way I look at it too. Ole finished 2nd which lets be honest is basically the true 1st place because everyone is handicapped compared to Man City. Chelsea are rich but aren’t backed by a country. As you say, only Liverpool who have one of the best managers ever in Klopp have managed to compete. Even then they have only won one premier league. my only disappointment was he didn’t perform in cup competitions. A trophy would of been great.
 
ManchesterManchester said:
This is the way I look at it too. Ole finished 2nd which lets be honest is basically the true 1st place because everyone is handicapped compared to Man City. Chelsea are rich but aren’t backed by a country. As you say, only Liverpool who have one of the best managers ever in Klopp have managed to compete. Even then they have only won one premier league. my only disappointment was he didn’t perform in cup competitions. A trophy would of been great.
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Liverpool also pushed City very close in another season, and also had a CL win and another final.

Rather than an obstacle, we should look at Liverpool as an example to what you can achieve if you do things really well, even with City around. Which we haven't done.
 
Love how this thread keeps getting bumped instead of blame being laid at the door of who's still picking these players
 
ManchesterManchester said:
This is the way I look at it too. Ole finished 2nd which lets be honest is basically the true 1st place because everyone is handicapped compared to Man City. Chelsea are rich but aren’t backed by a country. As you say, only Liverpool who have one of the best managers ever in Klopp have managed to compete. Even then they have only won one premier league. my only disappointment was he didn’t perform in cup competitions. A trophy would of been great.
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What about Mourinho, did he win the true 1st place too?

Oh and he has trophies here.
 
It's not like we suddenly play well if Maguire isn't there. I've lambasted him plenty but nearly all our players struggle to play in any cohesive fashion and lack the intensity to match other sides.
 
Club as a whole signed these players not just Ole. People forget we have had a transfer committee for a while.
 
charlenefan said:
Love how this thread keeps getting bumped instead of blame being laid at the door of who's still picking these players
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There is no one else. Rangnick cant stick to playing the same xi every game, he has to rotate players too.
 
VidaRed said:
There is no one else. Rangnick cant stick to playing the same xi every game, he has to rotate players too.
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Rubbish there's loads of players who have barely had a look in under RR
 
Seij said:
The atmosphere improved after Mourinho left because he left, not because Ole came in. Mourinho at the end of his tenure had given up after his last summer transfer window and publicly antagonized half the squad. Ole's tendency to coddle players I'm sure did help with the mood initially, but just about anyone would've "improved" the atmosphere when the guy creating the toxicity left.

I realize these debates regarding Ole will just keep going forever because most people have their mind made up one way or another and will not be convinced otherwise. He's been the most polarizing figure here as a manager.
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Tell me you never went to OT during that time period without telling me you never went to OT during that time period.
 
PeteManic said:
If he had only won the Europa League he would still be the manager.
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If the season played out the exact same way I don't think so, he may have been given even longer but with the results were going it would have been hard for him to survive beyond December. We may have ended up going out of The Champions League.
 
charlenefan said:
Rubbish there's loads of players who have barely had a look in under RR
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Like who? The only position he could of rotated a little bit more is CB and maybe of given Mejbri a runout. He's given plenty of players chances including Telles, Dalot and Elanga.

If you're talking about Martial or Lingard why should they have gotten a lookin when one is looking for an out and the other can't be arsed in any shape or form? Would you pick Henderson, Heaton or Grant over De Gea?

Do you think players like Shoretire or Mellor are ready for first team football? At least RR isn't scared to make big decisions like dropping Rashford, Shaw, AWB or even Bruno unlike previous managers who made the predictions game boring because bar injuries it was the exact same 11 no matter what their form or condition was like bar the odd exception.
 
rotherham_red said:
Tell me you never went to OT during that time period without telling me you never went to OT during that time period.
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Thank you, redder than red the glorious supporter of United. I'm honored to be in your presence.
 
Seij said:
Thank you, redder than red the glorious supporter of United. I'm honored to be in your presence.
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Praise for the real true glorious red ! We as supporters from far away are a second class being. Hence our opinion shall be treated as garbage in front of true Red. Seriously though that elitism attitude stinks. Just because someone is not born in Manchester then their opinion should be undermined by the true red ?
 
charlenefan said:
Look through the squad that RR had when he joined and you should be able to see for yourself who could have been given more minutes
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Like who though? Beyond say maybe Hannibal (whose time will come) I can't really think of anyone? He's given Telles and Dalot a new lease of life for example, they were dead and buried pretty much under Ole. Your posts these days just read like someone who made their mind up ages ago and now won't budge at all no matter what happens.
 
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