Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

sullydnl said:
Not important enough to engage in direct millitary conflict with Russia for, clearly.

But is it (or more importantly from their POV the broader geopolitical dispute with Russia) so unimportant that there wouldn't be finanacial or logistical support for those resisting the occupancy?

Put it this way: what do the countries involved gain from Russia not being bogged down in an extended and expensive occupancy? Because I would have thought a continuing drain on Russia's resources is very much in their interests. And if Russia is unwilling to directly attack them, how does it stop them providing insurgents with that flow of support?
Click to expand...
The most important question to ask is, is it worth it for Ukrainians to keep up the insurgency just to have Russia bogged down? The West should have at least provided some Air support to Ukrainians because just handing weapons and fueling insurgency will only result in mass casualties on Ukrainian side.
 
Carolina Red said:
They go hand in hand.
Click to expand...

Weird observer psychology I guess. As a participant we’d bathe in the blood of our invaders, but as observers we kinda want to minimise the idea of suffering as it sucks, so we talk about Ukraine winning and not the Russian mummies who’ll never see their boy for another Christmas.
 
I was just talkjing to one of the fox news watchers in the office and I saidf I feelt sad for the ukraninians.
his response; when teh cats away and also
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
War isn't the only answer to a conflict. If the rest of the world are serious, they could inflict serious economic damage without escalating the situation.
Click to expand...
With this conflict in particular I feel this is the way to deal with Putin. Put the pressure on those that can pressure him.
 
bosnian_red said:
Its day 1 of the war... Hopefully it doesn't happen but there's already been civilian apartments bombed a too many civilians killed.
Click to expand...

Yeah man i know... i know..:( i'm worried for those still in Kyiv. Especially those still trapped on the roads in their cars. If there is carpet bombing, it will be disastrous

Forget about driving out of the city now. Get out the car and get underground or indoors at least.
 
owlo said:
Weird observer psychology I guess. As a participant we’d bathe in the blood of our invaders, but as observers we kinda want to minimise the idea of suffering as it sucks, so we talk about Ukraine winning and not the Russian mummies who’ll never see their boy for another Christmas.
Click to expand...
On the topic of Russian Casualties, I've heard truly grim rumours that Russian Units have mobile crematoriums so that they can avoid sending body bags home. That suggests that they are expecting huge number of losses so, whatever we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
MuFc_1992 said:
On the topic of Russian Casualties, I've heard truly grim rumours that Russian Units have mobile crematoriums so that they can avoid sending body bags home. That suggests that they are expecting huge number of losses so, whatever we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.
Click to expand...

saw some pictures of that. Truly chilling.
 
VorZakone said:
Any news on that Azov battalion by the way? I mean...some evil feckers of your own might come in handy for the Ukrainians here.
Click to expand...

Not heard a thing, I'm mostly interested in the Chechen on Chechen action though if there's any truth to that.
 
MuFc_1992 said:
On the topic of Russian Casualties, I've heard truly grim rumours that Russian Units have mobile crematoriums so that they can avoid sending body bags home. That suggests that they are expecting huge number of losses so, whatever we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.
Click to expand...
Heard those too. Putin wants to control the visual narrative & not repeat the Afghanistan debacle.
 
WI_Red said:
agreed, Macaulay had a way with words. My favorite WWII quote (who knows if it’s actually true), and one that is applicable to Ukraine was Abrams quote: “they’ve got us surrounded. The poor bastards.”
Click to expand...
My great uncle was at the Chosin Reservoir with Chesty Puller in Korea. Chesty said something similar… “great, now we can shoot at the bastards in any direction”.
owlo said:
Weird observer psychology I guess. As a participant we’d bathe in the blood of our invaders, but as observers we kinda want to minimise the idea of suffering as it sucks, so we talk about Ukraine winning and not the Russian mummies who’ll never see their boy for another Christmas.
Click to expand...
I reckon you’re right. Maybe I’m just a callous bastard myself, but it just doesn’t cross my mind in situations like this one. I couldn’t imagine having felt sorrow for Axis or Chi-com forces in WWII or Korea.
 
Oh man, just had a really morbid thought cross my mind. Blame Putin for that.

According to recent reports by US intel, the Russians have prepared a kill list for when the invasion succeeds, with specific targets.

What if those mobile crematoriums are meant to...you know where I'm going.
 
Vitaly Klitschko is not likely to survive this war as Mayor of Kyiv. Harsh reality.
 
spiriticon said:
I thought all their airfields are down or occupied? How are they refueling?
Click to expand...

Well airstrips can be repaired in hours, the only way to permanently shut an airfield down is to occupy it with troops or periodically hit it with airstrikes, standoff missiles.
 
rpitroda said:
I’ve seen a few posts here pondering what role China would take here. What is the long term benefit to them to support Russia? My take is that Putin’s Russia is toast - not Russia itself, but Putin’s Russia. There is no way now that things return to normal for them whilst Putin remains. And to that end, unless we think there is a stream of Putin-heirs in the wings, surely it is much better for China to align to the US than Russia. I know there is ideology factors to consider but I’m not sure how much they’d weigh in here. But I’m far from knowledgable on this subject so I’d be very keen to hear other peoples perspective on this.
Click to expand...

You can't be friend US if they sees you as the enemy. The Chinese tried that in the 90s and the US simply bombed their embassy (ooopsss) , I think the Sovyet (or was it Russia?) tried under Gorbachev and got torn to pieces economically, Japan was the 1980s China but they comply and play along.

It's not a simple as cooperate and prosper, sometimes the other party just want to see you burn. Just like Ukraine letting go of their Nukes, doesn't mean Russia respond in kind
 
Carolina Red said:
My great uncle was at the Chosin Reservoir with Chesty Puller in Korea. Chesty said something similar… “great, now we can shoot at the bastards in any direction”.

I reckon you’re right. Maybe I’m just a callous bastard myself, but it just doesn’t cross my mind in situations like this one. I couldn’t imagine having felt sorrow for Axis or Chi-com forces in WWII or Korea.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people have expressed that they want Ukraine to remain strong but don’t want young Russian soldiers to die. All of that can be encapsulated by a single viewpoint, and thats just objection to the consequences of war.
 
shamans said:
I wonder how many of those Russian soldiers at that moment wanted to do that as well. This is a very odd time to show any sympathy to the oppressor but I'm sure some of those soldiers have a "wtf am I doing here" inside their heart.
Click to expand...

The first thing they do in bootcamp is to brainwash you, you'll be moulded into a killing machine that doesn't think, obey first, shoot second, think later., and to be fair to the Russian every soldiers are trained that way. They don't have time to ponder about killing, live lost, humanity etc in times of war.

And it won't be clear cut black and white from their PoV, with years of propaganda and brainwashing they don't always see themselves as the agressor. Just like American troops feels they're the liberator and defender of Freedom, and to be fair to american as well, every nation soldier that's half competent would have fully indoctrinated their sides with enough ideology not to run away and mutiny at the first chance.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
An EU army is a really dumb idea, for many reasons. The big ones being a lack of command structure, slow decision making, lack of democratic oversight and duplication with NATO.

NATO already exists. The nations of Europe just need to properly fund, train and equip their militaries and thereby strengthen NATO and the defence capabilities of Europe.

All this EU army talk is just a distraction, and largely being pushed by France who have always been reluctant members of NATO.
Click to expand...

All this is true but the main reason its a dumb idea is there is no common foreign policy so on what basis would it fight?

If it existed now, would it be sent to defend Ukraine?

The Germans would veto it because they need the gas and feck Ukraine. That is what they are all doing right now on swift because their energy policy is a catastrophic failure that Ukrainians not Germans are going to die for. The poles would have paid into an organization it could not depend on so why would it want to contribute. The French would want to take the budget to build the equipment and use it on their own objectives dressed up as EU objectives. It would be a dangerous cluster feck of inaction and EU committee designed structures of uselessness and expensive bemedaled grandiose job titled cnuts.
 
FriedClams said:
I think a lot of people have expressed that they want Ukraine to remain strong but don’t want young Russian soldiers to die. All of that can be encapsulated by a single viewpoint, and thats just objection to the consequences of war.
Click to expand...
Well, as it stands, Putin has brought those consequences down upon his own people, as well as the Ukrainians. The Russian soldiers can stop dying at the moment of Putin’s choosing. The only way for Ukraine to force that is to inflict the heaviest losses possible on the Russian military for every km of ground ceded.
 
MuFc_1992 said:
The most important question to ask is, is it worth it for Ukrainians to keep up the insurgency just to have Russia bogged down? The West should have at least provided some Air support to Ukrainians because just handing weapons and fueling insurgency will only result in mass casualties on Ukrainian side.
Click to expand...

I think, with all due respect to the Ukrainians, the Russian are probably still hoping for a swift cease fire, a full scale atrocity war is not what they have in mind, and it serves no purpose in 2022. If this turns into Leningrad things could go very very very bad pretty fast with today's technology.

And I think Zelinsky is still hoping he could close a deal (albeit with heavy concessions) soon to buy time, it's impractical for Ukrainians to throw their lives without any endgame in sight, the same for Russia, their end game is concession I think, not a full destruction of UKR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.