Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

As full of admiration as I am for the courage and ferocity with which Ukrainians have defended themselves over the last 24 hours, the cynic in me can't help but wonder did it suit Putin to go in softly to begin with.

A large part of his justification for this aggression is this idea of the militarization and mobilisation of Ukraine against Russia. We all know he has little regard for loss of life on either side, so those Ukraine wins of the early hours will merely back up his claims and give him further bullshit justification for ramping up the violence moving forward.
 
LoneStar said:
I am certainly not knowledgeable about this, but didn’t this whole thing start because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, and also ended up giving up its nuclear weapons for that purpose?
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I'm not knowledgeable to give a satisfactory/precise answer to this either. To my knowledge it started (the invasion of Crimea) after pro-Russia Janukovitch was overthrown, and a pro EU government replaced him. Putin was afraid og losing his (only?) ice-free/non polar port on Crimea, and chose to just take it by force. Fast forward a decade, and here we are.
 
TheLiverBird said:
These sanctions are becoming laughable

Russia and Ukraine are in the boxing ring throwing some insane blows, and some little dweeb is stood outside the ring quietly saying stop it stop it Mr Russia I’ve sanctioned you in this this and this and I’ll do more

Russia are barely listening to this pointless little dweeb thinking I wish they’d shut up, giving no poops to the content coming out the dweebs mouth

stop holding back! And just throw every sanction under the sun at them because they aren’t going to slow down
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Yeah, said this a while back..

I'm not sure if sanctions will change Putin's mind because he's an egotistical, power-chasing, lying, maniacal lunatic who doesn't give a feck about the impact on the average Russian.

BUT if you're going to do it, go all in and not after the event. Tell Russia they are all brought in the second they step over the border.
 
VorZakone said:
The West needs to stop the stupid rhetoric of Russia becoming an international pariah state, and this and that. It's not happening. India will facilitate Russia in some ways, same for the Chinese. You got Imran Khan visiting Moscow. Bolsonaro supporting Putin.

The West has got to become extremely realistic and pragmatic about the new world order, and look to deeper alliances with the likes of South Korea & Japan and other Asian countries.
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Western countries are Russia's 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th etc biggest export markets. China and India cannot just magically replace that overnight. For India there's a geographic issue also.
 
Rightnr said:
Germany have shown they are hypocrites time and again but what's pissing me off the most is Merkel coming out and condemning Russia.

You gave them the means and leverage to wage these conflicts in the first place. The German citizens might not like it but it's time to make a sacrifice and take a bit of pain for the future of Europe. Throw Russia out of Swift because otherwise all this talk of the economic approach to fighting Russia is pointless.
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It's perplexing that so modernised and clever country like Germany still have to rely on such bizarre and barbaric regimes.

Merkel was indeed one part of the problem, the other one is Gerhard Schroeder who's absolute shill, not to mention close friend of Putin in private life.
 
Rektsanwalt said:
do you think we will risk WWIII even if theres millions of dead ukranian bodies?
Obviously no
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Yes I do. War with Russia doesn't automatically mean WW3, certainly doesn't mean nuclear war. It is a huge risk of course and one we rightly (i think?) are not willing to take right now. There is a line somewhere however, I don't know exactly where but if they start indescriminate bombardment of cities full of civilians... The pressure on NATO, or maybe just a few members acting independantly, will build and build and build.
 
TheLiverBird said:
These sanctions are becoming laughable

Russia and Ukraine are in the boxing ring throwing some insane blows, and some little dweeb is stood outside the ring quietly saying stop it stop it Mr Russia I’ve sanctioned you in this this and this and I’ll do more

Russia are barely listening to this pointless little dweeb thinking I wish they’d shut up, giving no poops to the content coming out the dweebs mouth

stop holding back! And just throw every sanction under the sun at them because they aren’t going to slow down
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But then reading a post like this just fills me with doubt...

Sanctions. How do sanctions help Ukraine?

NATO = DWEEB; or NATO = AWESOME-O?
 
Simbo said:
Google tells me "as long as you’re not hired by someone who is either at war with us, or with any of our allies, then you should be clear"

From listenting to talks with ex US special forces people in the past, its not unusual some guys carry on chasing conflict around the world, for different reasons. Be that money, because they are action-junkies, do-gooders or cos its the only life they know.
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Yeah, I think as far as the Foreign Enlistment Act goes, that is the case. This has all become a little more relevant in the last few decades because of instances of Canadians going to fight for international paramilitary and terrorist organizations. New legislation has been passed but overall it is incredibly difficult to prove and therefore prosecute. I don't think any terrorists contact ISIS on twitter and ask for a plane trip to the battlefield or set up a gofundme page for the trip like the Canadian who wanted to go to Ukraine did.
 
Van Piorsing said:
It's perplexing that so modernised and clever country like Germany still have to rely on such bizarre and barbaric regimes.

Merkel was indeed one part of the problem, the other one is Gerhard Schroeder who's absolute shill, not to mention close friend of Putin in private life.
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Schroeder is a traitor, plain and simple.
 
Gambit said:
When will everyone understand, NATO will not be getting involved.
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Exactly, and neither should they. We can assist Ukraine with financial measures and make the war too costly for Russia but that's it. Its on the Ukrainian people to make an occupation untenable.

If Russia attacked a NATO country, then NATO gets involved. It would not result in WW3 though, it would be to repel Russia from the country and stop at that.

The only case I could see any of that changing is if Russia starts killing Ukrainian citizens en masse, which doesn't look to be the plan.
 
Revan said:
Jesus, this is not gonna be nice. Chechyan paramilitaries are the thuggiest thugs that exist on this planet. They are essentially ISIS-like, but tougher.
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Yeah, it's essentially the very experienced guerilla that will take care of urban warfare. There are unconfirmed rumors about dagestan also moving to Ukraine.
 
Simbo said:
Yes I do. War with Russia doesn't automatically mean WW3, certainly doesn't mean nuclear war. It is a huge risk of course and one we rightly (i think?) are not willing to take right now. There is a line somewhere however, I don't know exactly where but if they start indescriminate bombardment of cities full of civilians... The pressure on NATO, or maybe just a few members acting independantly, will build and build and build.
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I do think a single nato member can force the issue.
 
Seems to be more traffic now in the center of Kiev. It was quiet all morning. Not sure if it is a good sign or people are now leaving
 
VorZakone said:
The West needs to stop the stupid rhetoric of Russia becoming an international pariah state, and this and that. It's not happening. India will facilitate Russia in some ways, same for the Chinese. You got Imran Khan visiting Moscow. Bolsonaro supporting Putin.

The West has got to become extremely realistic and pragmatic about the new world order, and look to deeper alliances with the likes of South Korea & Japan and other Asian countries.
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Russia became a pariah state the moment Putin sanctioned the invasion of Ukraine, sadly. Do you really think the Chinese will stand by Putin if he invades a member of NATO? Not likely.

You have to feel for the Russian people. This horrible situation has been thrust upon them without their consent.
 
Revan said:
Jesus, this is not gonna be nice. Chechyan paramilitaries are the thuggiest thugs that exist on this planet. They are essentially ISIS-like, but tougher.
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Weren't they actually fighting against Putin not long before?
 
I wonder whether we are mobilising our military capability at the moment? Are people being put on notice?
 
Sweden is not a NATO member. And our PM hasn't spoken publicly about this. Actually, we've been laughing at a video from Tuesday where she hesitated to call the Russian movements in Dombas an "invasion". Now the president comes to her rescue on Twitter.

 
rpitchfo said:
I wonder whether we are mobilising our military capability at the moment? Are people being put on notice?
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There is a lot of NATO aircraft over Europe at the moment. At times last night there were 3-4 tankers in the air with their transponders on. You can fuel a lot of aircraft with that many tankers... I've not had the time to look today.

There was also a B-52 with its transponder on around 100km from the Ukrainian border last night from memory.
 
So they're inviting Zelensky to come to...Minsk. Yeah, the capital of the country that has facilitated the Russians.

 
Rightnr said:
Germany have shown they are hypocrites time and again but what's pissing me off the most is Merkel coming out and condemning Russia.

You gave them the means and leverage to wage these conflicts in the first place. The German citizens might not like it but it's time to make a sacrifice and take a bit of pain for the future of Europe. Throw Russia out of Swift because otherwise all this talk of the economic approach to fighting Russia is pointless.
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Germany's government is absolute shit, has been a long time, now is even worse. 100% agree.

Simbo said:
Yes I do. War with Russia doesn't automatically mean WW3, certainly doesn't mean nuclear war. It is a huge risk of course and one we rightly (i think?) are not willing to take right now. There is a line somewhere however, I don't know exactly where but if they start indescriminate bombardment of cities full of civilians... The pressure on NATO, or maybe just a few members acting independantly, will build and build and build.
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??? A NATO member being at war with Russia certainly means WWIII and WWIII certainly means nuclear war. There obviously is a line, a line which was drawn long time ago and still is relevant today: if a NATO member is attacked. Nothing else will mean NATO involvement, even if the whole of Ukraine is burried.

The Firestarter said:
Schroeder is a traitor, plain and simple.
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he is! The dirty kaviarsocialist cnut, with his whole shit party
 
BayernFan87 said:
If Putin attacks a NATO member hell will break loose.

It's literally part of the NATO treaty: "if you attack one of us, you attack all of us".

If Putin attacks Estonia or Poland the whole NATO will join the fight and WW3 will start.
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That's the theory, anyway. As I said earlier, I'm not sure the US and other leading powers would risk WW3 for the sake of protecting Latvia or Hungary. Regardless of what is written in treaties.
 
Revan said:
Jesus, this is not gonna be nice. Chechyan paramilitaries are the thuggiest thugs that exist on this planet. They are essentially ISIS-like, but tougher.
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I'd fancy the fighters within the afghan mountains over them, just ask Russia themselves.
 
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