My point is not about force. They'll still get the weapons and Putin will still know where they're coming from. But he won't have the excuse of a public support from the EU, UK and US to justify his eventual full or partial failure.
I know, I think I phrased my question incorrectly, my bad.
If we want the Ukrainians to stand we should let them know that we are on their side.
At serious risk of hating myself, I am going to disagree slightly with this. Not that Putin isn’t a mad man who has many other reasons than just NATO to invade Ukraine. But the macro view here really is about Ukraine and it’s allegiances. For whatever reason, Ukraine as a nation has become a battleground for expansion by the EU or expansion by Russia. The core point is that Putin wants as many countries around him aligned to his outlook and ethos. As does the EU - a few posts above talk about Ursula wanting Ukraine in the EU. So this is very much about “winning” Ukraine as an ally. And it’s precisely that which is what is driving the firmness of the response to Russia around the world.
Yep, I find it strange people jumping to the defence of Putin when he has as much as threatened nuclear war only several hours ago.
I think it’s just completely impractical. So many contracts (in particular global interbank contracts, funding and liquidity arrangements, etc.) all are generally USD denominated. In theory a country like China could untangle itself from that, but it would take a very long time but also would equally damage their economy significantly that it doesn’t make any sense at all.
Nothing I said disproves your assertion tbf mate. I agree with you, it certainly isn't indicative of the whole country being rabidly fascist, but the official Twitter account of the Ukrainian military actively tweeting something which refers to Muslims in the pejorative (let alone what their actions were in the video itself) is pretty noteworthy, no?
That may have been part of his thinking in the lead up, but now it’s any excuse he can think off. Rationale has long gone. He just doesn’t like the democratically elected government and what they stand for.
One reason the Chinese have not been able to push the yuan as an alternative is because they control their currency a lot more than the US which already does so much shady stuff on that front.
Great, so when can we expect a cultural, sporting and economic boycott of Israel? Seeing as how we're all learning our lessons of the past and all?
Agreed, but I was thinking more of a China/Russia/Saudi/Brazil/India type coalition. The fact that those countries are probably the only countries that haven't condemned Russia yet leave me a bit worried that it could all be a plan and in fact we are looking at the start of a ww.
I just made a post above. I’m not jumping to his defence but Putin very clearly has a general fear of the west and he clearly thinks they want to make Russia irrelevant. To be clear not saying that’s the case in reality, but it’s foolish to suggest he doesn’t believe it. So, the point I’m making is I very much understand WHY he wants Ukraine in his pocket. And why he is doing what he is doing.That’s different to saying it’s based on real facts. And in any case, as I said above, that in no way gives him any right to invade them. Fighting for their allegiance through diplomatic channels is one thing - and frankly no different to what any country does. But invading them for it? That’s obviously not acceptable and he’s rightly getting condemned for it.
Agreed. But that’s because they want to align with the West. If the exact same people wanted to align with Russia he would have no issue with them whatsoever.
It's not my opinion, but it's quite clearly the point OP was making, which is what @Stanley Road seemed to be asking about.
Its not just about him being a mad man in power. I think there are two reasons. One, if Ukraine becomes a member of NATO, Moscow will be very close and very vulnerable to any future attack from the West, with plain land and no mountains for protection etc in between, with Ukraine under his control Moscow is well protected by Ukraine from the West and the Black sea from the South. And two, he gets Ukraine's Oil Depots, stops paying rent for pipelines and also reopens the water supply to Crimea.
Forgive me for saying it but dude, their country is at fecking war. They didn't go to the Chechens, the Chechens came to them.
I really don’t think the EU and UK are supporting Ukraine to the extent they are because of a PR opportunity. A PR opportunity is Boris Johnson turning up at a Ukrainian Greek Orthodox church to do a speech, or Liz Truss looking like a dickhead in front of a Ukrainian flag. The West is doing this because we are seeing the true emergence of Putin as a level of threat to global peace as Hitler was. Putin’s Russia will be entirely ostracised whilst he remains in charge or Russian troops remain on internationally recognised Ukrainian soil.
Still not possible. Financial markets are a hugely complex ecosystem. You can’t just stop using a currency. To finance, to invest, you do all of this through financial centres and to access those centres you need dollars. For countries to stop using dollars they’d not only need to establish an alternative currency to take its place, they’d need to effectively create a new financial hub and not only that, convince global investors to use that financial hub and their alternative currency.
This is the only thing that eases my anxiety a little here. US intelligence has been bang on about virtually everything so far, they must be aware of how real the nuclear threat is.
Which is basically what I’m saying, isn’t it? Ukraine is the poor country in the middle. But really this is, as you say, about the core principal of Russia vs the EU and expanding / protecting their way of life. Ukraine is the unfortunate battleground this is being played out in. Thanks to a madman on Moscow.
I get the historic aspect of it, I am questioning the execution.
Putin is like that one arsehole you see in a pub every weekend, messing with folk just so he's got an excuse to fight them. He's walking around spilling people's pints over, pinching women's arses, laughing obnoxiously, routinely encroaching on their airspace in the North Sea, and when it doesn't work he eventually resorts to pushing around who he thinks is the smallest guy in the room.
