Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Such a worrying situation, though I've struggled to follow a lot of what is going on. I really don't see how Russia manage to come out of this now without being in a significantly worse situation than they were prior. Best case, Putin is replaced by someone, who then withdraws all troops. They will still likely suffer sanctions for a decent period of time and the level of influence they have gets further reduced. Worst case, is that Putin doubles down and things escalate further.
If his lieutenants arrest him, they could negotiate a removal of all new sanctions in exchange for Putin and a withdraw from Ukraine and the border. That's a win for everyone but Putin.
 
If his lieutenants arrest him, they could negotiate a removal of all new sanctions in exchange for Putin and a withdraw from Ukraine and the border. That's a win for everyone but Putin.
I can't see anyone fully removing the sanctions though even in your situation. Best I could see would be a reduction. To full remove them, would just ignore the damage and lives taken so far.
 
Have been looking for this video, this was only 16 days ago, but Putin doesn't seem all that deranged.

He expresses that Ukraine joining NATO would pull the west into a war with Russia, but he also says (of nuclear war) that "there are no winners" and "he doesn't want that"

So maybe some hope that he's not completely mad after all

 
Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator, responsible for murder of thousands of his own people. Where war is wrong and nobody wanted to see innocents die, the world is a better place without madmen in charge.
Yeah but that's not why the "Coalition of the Willing" invaded.
 
I can't see anyone fully removing the sanctions though even in your situation. Best I could see would be a reduction. To full remove them, would just ignore the damage and lives taken so far.
You'd be a brave person to refuse that deal if it was offered by the Russians around Putin. Small cost in my mind, this seems to be his war.
 
Well, Russia is big and Ukraine is much smaller, but that's a conformal map projection. Greenland looks like a continent.
Russia_Ukraine_Locator.svg
 
BBC reckons Putin could explode a nuclear weapon in the north sea to shit us up. :nervous:

BBC News: Would Putin press the nuclear button?

Shit us up? France and the UK could drop one right back so it’s not quite the same as “he’d never do it” when referring to invading Ukraine or Crimea. He knows we won’t send troops to Ukraine, but he also knows a nuke attack would instantly mean vaporising St Petersburg and Moscow.
 
Between them still finding it hard in Ukraine, sanctions hitting them hard today and that article about them ‘restoring new order’ being released this is the most concerned I’ve ever been about it.
 
Shit us up? France and the UK could drop one right back so it’s not quite the same as “he’d never do it” when referring to invading Ukraine or Crimea. He knows we won’t send troops to Ukraine, but he also knows a nuke attack would instantly mean vaporising St Petersburg and Moscow.

I think the analyst who hypothesised the 'nuke in the north sea' is implying that it would be a 'warning shot' - so that we wouldn't retaliate?
 
I think Putin is going to use nuclear in the next 24/48 hrs
Why's that?

Been talk of a "false flag" event by Russia to excuse the need to start a more intense level of combat. But I don't think it's very likely to include a nuke.

He's only put nuclear readiness on alert level 2 of 4. I think it may have been a show of strength after the Russian attack has made Russia look weak.
 
Why's that?

Been talk of a "false flag" event by Russia to excuse the need to start a more intense level of combat. But I don't think it's very likely to include a nuke.

He's only put nuclear readiness on alert level 2 of 4. I think it may have been a show of strength after the Russian attack has made Russia look weak.

Many people thinks that he is a tactician, I think he is crazy

He doesn’t speaks just for speaks, he often makes the speech a reality
 
Yet Ukraine is 44 million and Russia 145 million, not quite what you might expect looking at that map. East as I'm sure we all know is mostly empty. *Only* a bit over 3 times the population, but it looks like 20 times the land area.
 
Many people thinks that he is a tactician, I think he is crazy

He doesn’t speaks just for speaks, he often makes the speech a reality
And what did he say about dropping a nuke? I didn't hear anything. He's only threatened "things you've never seen before". I think he specially didn't say he'd use nukes because he doesn't want to make a threat he isn't willing to back up.

A madman with nukes can launch any time, no one can stop him. No reason to just hand over anything they want though.
 

Absolutely disgraceful.

Maybe there should be a separate thread for all the examples of this kind of racist journalistic narrative, because it deserves conversation, but derails this specific thread.
I’ve been mainly watching Al Jazeera and they’re fine. Much better than CNN or BBC in that they’re not spinning any narratives. The point he was trying to make was tone deaf but understandable in the sense that it isn’t the bottom of the pyramid people trying to escape poverty and famine but rather everyday people who are also caught up in this.

I know there’s been a lot said about detailing the thread. But westerners have to be open to the fact that the world doesn’t culturally behave the same way they do. We don’t see the world in a Eurocentric way and we don’t want to. We believe in the same values of humanity, freedom and independence and therefore will vehemently stand by Ukraine but doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t point out racism at border check posts and won’t see the duplicity in stances taken.
 
And what did he say about dropping a nuke? I didn't hear anything. He's only threatened "things you've never seen before". I think he specially didn't say he'd use nukes because he doesn't want to make a threat he isn't willing to back up.

A madman with nukes can launch any time, no one can stop him. No reason to just hand over anything they want though.

Surely they have protocols so that just one crazy person can’t make it happen?
 
If Belarus join the war, I hope they're hit with the same kind of sanctions. I know they're restricted already, I don't know to what extend, though.
 
And what did he say about dropping a nuke? I didn't hear anything. He's only threatened "things you've never seen before". I think he specially didn't say he'd use nukes because he doesn't want to make a threat he isn't willing to back up.

A madman with nukes can launch any time, no one can stop him. No reason to just hand over anything they want though.

He's specifically mentioned nuclear on lots of occasions, not 3 weeks ago he was saying that while Russia would struggle to compete with NATO conventionally, their nuclear weapons systems are world class and would result in "no winner". Then yesterday he raised the nuclear alert, followed by a state bulletin reminding us that his submarines alone carry 500 warheads, sufficient to deal with Europe and most of the USA. Now with the law change signed in by Lukashenko, we've effectively had the go ahead for Russian nukes to be placed in Belarus.
 
Surely they have protocols so that just one crazy person can’t make it happen?

In a nutshell, no. Sadly.

From the BBC article I linked above 'Will Putin press the nuclear button?"

Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."
And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.
"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."