Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[stefan92]

Maybe I am wrong, but I could have sworn I have read condemnations of other countries in recent history who kept their prisoners incarcerated and left to fend for themselves unarmed, even whilst cities were being razed around them.

It's one thing letting people behind to die, it's another thing to allow people to leave prison to join the army.

And while it's inhuman to leave prisoners locked in a burning and exploding jail, it is not exactly against any war convention, but rather a breaking of the human rights charta I think.

 

[LARulz]

Can someone just help make sure I am not misunderstanding

Why are the EU so desperate for Ukraine to join the EU right now? Does that not cause a massive issue if Russia is still trying to invade because then it's a case of Russia vs the EU who then all need to get involved? And then NATO?

 

[Tarrou]

this is mostly delusional bollocks though isn’t it?

Ukrainians weren’t that bothered about joining until Putin stole Crimea from them in 2014, is he really surprised public opinion turned after he literally invaded them? Of course not it’s exactly how you’d expect it to go

and Russia already borders NATO countries so why do they need to invade Ukraine to stop NATO lining up some missiles? It’s horseshit

 

[horsechoker]

Can someone just help make sure I am not misunderstanding

Why are the EU so desperate for Ukraine to join the EU right now? Does that not cause a massive issue if Russia is still trying to invade because then it's a case of Russia vs the EU who then all need to get involved? And then NATO?

Ukraine might have to give up certain territories if wants to join the EU. An accord would have to be reached.

People often talk about joining the EU like it's Netflix *cough* Scotland *cough* but it's not such an easy process.

 

[Sarni]

It's not PoWs you muppet. It is people who were in prison in Ukraine prior to the war, who are within scope of conscription. Keeping them imprisoned and maintaining their incarceration would stop being viable at some point anyway, especially when prison staff will be needed in the war effort too.

Ah I also thought these were Russian prisoners as this is how it got reported in Polish media at first. If it's regular prisoners then it's fair game. Should not say they will put them in heated areas though, just that they will be fighting.

 

[Relevated]

Expect an agreement today tbh

 

[DickDastardly]

Does Ukraine have a death penalty in their judicial system?

Imagine making a combat unit out of those awaiting the death penalty.
Wrap them with C4 and bubblewrap the feck out of them and just roll them down the hill.

 

[hasanejaz88]

One point I'll make, and not to seem like I'm pro-Russian, is that we need to be vary of the mistakes made after World War 1 to not completely humiliate the Russians following any negotiations, and provoke a worse response in future years.

We've seen that their economy can be devastated following the sanctions. That, coupled with the humiliation of not being able to conquer Ukraine, could have an extreme impact on the population and leaders, who can be very nationalistic.

Ofcourse Russia is 100% wrong in what they've done, but with peace talks we should negotiate that they completely withdraw from Ukraine but then lift sanctions put on them (if possible also the resignation of Putin) so that they don't fall into economic despair, like what happened in Germany after WW1.

Hopefully Russia would have learnt their lesson that they cannot attack a country that has the support of NATO (feel free to march eastward towards Arabia though ). With that lesson we can allow them back into the world economy and not sever relations entirely

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Expect an agreement today tbh

Believe!

 

[Deery]

Talks have started on the Belarus border, Ukrainians asking for Russia to pull out and a ceasefire.

 

[stefan92]

Can someone just help make sure I am not misunderstanding

Why are the EU so desperate for Ukraine to join the EU right now? Does that not cause a massive issue if Russia is still trying to invade because then it's a case of Russia vs the EU who then all need to get involved? And then NATO?

It does, and that's the point. Letting Ukraine join the EU while being at war would immediately mean the whole EU had to join the war (as this is part of the Lissabon treaty), and therefore obviously would also in one the rest of the Nato by proxy. It's just the ultimate threat the EU has against Russia to make them retreat.

 

[Natener]

Let the killers do the killing eh?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Wouldn't want to be their commander though. Some sleepless nights await anyone in charge of that group.

Most prisoners are not killers doing life sentences. I doubt they are sending people who are too dangerous to let out.

 

[sun_tzu]

Talks have started on the Belarus border, Ukrainians asking for Russia to pull out and a ceasefire.

Nah... Talks have started deep inside Belarus... It's just one side doesn't realise that yet

 

[led_scholes]

Let the killers do the killing eh?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Wouldn't want to be their commander though. Some sleepless nights await anyone in charge of that group.

Didnt they Russians do that against Napoleon when they abandoned Moscow? They let the prisoners loose just to loot things and make it impossible for the french to find food and worhty goods.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can't disagree with him.

I’m torn because obviously things should be solved by discussion not conflict (I doubt anyone disagrees) but I feel like a lot of people ‘blaming’ expansion against Russia are ignoring the fact that Putin hasn’t exactly made Russia an attractive proposition for its former USSR territories. Why should Ukraine pay for his domestic failures as President? If they see a better future for their people why shouldn’t they be allowed to apply to the EU, NATO or whatever they want without fear of invasion?

 

[VorZakone]

One point I'll make, and not to seem like I'm pro-Russian, is that we need to be vary of the mistakes made after World War 1 to not completely humiliate the Russians following any negotiations, and provoke a worse response in future years.

We've seen that their economy can be devastated following the sanctions. That, coupled with the humiliation of not being able to conquer Ukraine, could have been extreme impact on the prison population and leaders, who can be very nationalistic.

Ofcourse Russia is 100% wrong in what they've done, but with peace talks we should negotiate that they completely withdraw from Ukraine but then lift sanctions put on them (if possible also the resignation of Putin). so that they don't fall into economic despair, like what happened in Germany after WW1.

Hopefully Russia would have learnt their lesson that they cannot attack a country that has the support of NATO (feel free to march eastward towards Arabia though ). With that lesson we can allow them back into the world economy and not sever relations entirely

Indeed, we should be wary of angering the Russian public long term because new leaders might exploit that. Japan under the US umbrella is an interesting case study with regards to helping a country after they've been 'punished'.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I'm guessing here, it's probably prisoners who are close to parole/on good behaviour who are being given the task, rather than rapists and the like

 

[stefan92]

One point I'll make, and not to seem like I'm pro-Russian, is that we need to be vary of the mistakes made after World War 1 to not completely humiliate the Russians following any negotiations, and provoke a worse response in future years.

We've seen that their economy can be devastated following the sanctions. That, coupled with the humiliation of not being able to conquer Ukraine, could have an extreme impact on the population and leaders, who can be very nationalistic.

Ofcourse Russia is 100% wrong in what they've done, but with peace talks we should negotiate that they completely withdraw from Ukraine but then lift sanctions put on them (if possible also the resignation of Putin) so that they don't fall into economic despair, like what happened in Germany after WW1.

Hopefully Russia would have learnt their lesson that they cannot attack a country that has the support of NATO (feel free to march eastward towards Arabia though ). With that lesson we can allow them back into the world economy and not sever relations entirely

Absolutely agree. It should be our goal to remove Putin, create some disarmament treaty and most importantly essentially allow the Russians to blame this stuff on Putin and his close advisors. That way they could save their face and return to our common economical system.

 

[TMDaines]

 

[golden_blunder]

Sending prisoners of war into the hottest spots is morally questionable to say the least. I realise, they're at war and difficult decisions have to be made but not sure I agree with that one. If a PoW is willing to fight for them they deserve lauding, not putting into a position where they are more likely to be killed.

The way i read it is that it’s prisoners who were already in jail prior to the war not POWs.
The only objection I’d have is in regards to murderers being used because they could be psychopaths

 

[sun_tzu]

Zelenskiy taking over from tuchel... I'm calling it first

presumably putin okd it or its polonolium tea for roman

 

[Suv666]

But if he's discovered Putin will unleash Colonel Volgin and The Shagohod.

Damn what an amazing throwback. Haven't heard those names in years.

 

[NoLogo]

Totally never said that, but go off. I don't at all agree with the invasion. All i'm saying is that Putin has a legitimate reason to be aggrieved (I understand better the complexity around the issue now) not that he is justified in his disproportionate escalation and nuclear threats. The west was never going roll back the expansion to pre 1997 levels but maybe some truce could have been made on Ukraine if negotiations could have been allowed to continue before he decided to go full madman Putler mode.

No he doesn't. Until 2014 we were all on cooperative terms with Russia, no one saw them as an enemy but as a partner in many things. This is all of Putin's own making, the fact that NATO now is a threat to them as well, before that no NATO nation ever attempted any military aggression against Russia. Don't buy the Kremlin propaganda, the only thing Putin is worried about is that the democratic movements in Ukraine and Belarus are going to cost him his regime, that's why he attacked Ukraine, he can't have them be a democratic state, the NATO thing is a fecking excuse preying on old Cold War fears.

 

[Sultan]

Feel free to march eastward towards Arabia though

You do remember the Arabs/Afghans obviously with the help of the West had them fleeing Afghanistan?

 

[TMDaines]

 

[Suv666]

e's done it again that Putin!

He does it every single time!

YOU DIRTY BASTARD

We mustn't forget its been raining
-Ivan Ty

 

[Classical Mechanic]

No he doesn't. Until 2014 we were all on cooperative terms with Russia, no one saw them as an enemy but as a partner in many things. This is all of Putin's own making, the fact that NATO now is a threat to them as well, before that no NATO nation ever attempted any military aggression against Russia. Don't buy the Kremlin propaganda, the only thing Putin is worried about is that the democratic movements in Ukraine and Belarus are going to cost him his regime, that's why he attacked Ukraine, he can't have them be a democratic state, the NATO thing is a fecking excuse playing on old Cold War fears.

To follow on from that, Putin has committed so many crimes against Russia that if he loses his regime then he loses his life. He's the archetypal prisoner of power.

 

[Mihai]

Does Ukraine have a death penalty in their judicial system?

Imagine making a combat unit out of those awaiting the death penalty.
Wrap them with C4 and bubblewrap the feck out of them and just roll them down the hill.

Capital punishment was abolished in 2000.

 

[Denis79]

This I agree with 100%.

 

[Dan_F]

Most prisoners are not killers doing life sentences. I doubt they are sending people who are too dangerous to let out.

They sound like the exactly the kind of people who you’d want fighting in war ironically.

 

[golden_blunder]

But that’s not what his latest statements are saying, and he is more unhinged sounding now

 

[ColoRed]

Absolutely agree. It should be our goal to remove Putin, create some disarmament treaty and most importantly essentially allow the Russians to blame this stuff on Putin and his close advisors. That way they could save their face and return to our common economical system.

Yep. We have to make it clear to the Russians that there is a way out of all sanctions and that there is a way back to negotiations if a ceasefire is reached. But Putin must go.

 

[Smores]

No he doesn't. Until 2014 we were all on cooperative terms with Russia, no one saw them as an enemy but as a partner in many things. This is all of Putin's own making, the fact that NATO now is a threat to them as well, before that no NATO nation ever attempted any military aggression against Russia. Don't buy the Kremlin propaganda, the only thing Putin is worried about is that the democratic movements in Ukraine and Belarus are going to cost him his regime, that's why he attacked Ukraine, he can't have them be a democratic state, the NATO thing is a fecking excuse playing on old Cold War fears.

You're conflating justification with a geopolitical reality and then ranting about a point not made.

NATO expansion is a valid security threat, the fact current NATO isn't a threat isn't relevant because its about what may happen in decades time. That's how all major players think in regards to non-allied forces (and Russia are pretending to be one at this stage).

Is it anything to do with this war? Very little. Is accepting it as valid remotely justifying Russian aggression? No

 

[golden_blunder]

Does Ukraine have a death penalty in their judicial system?

Imagine making a combat unit out of those awaiting the death penalty.
Wrap them with C4 and bubblewrap the feck out of them and just roll them down the hill.

Never see The Dirty Dozen?

 

[Sarni]

You're conflating justification with a geopolitical reality and then ranting about a point not made.

NATO expansion is a valid security threat, the fact current NATO isn't a threat isn't relevant because its about what may happen in decades time. That's how all major players think in regards to non-allied forces (and Russia are pretending to be one at this stage).

Is it anything to do with this war? Very little. Is accepting it as valid remotely justifying Russian aggression? No

I think we should stop discussing whether NATO is a threat to Russia or not when Putin has explicitly explained what this war is about. It’s a topic for another discussion altogether.

 

[Mickeza]

Why would Ukraine request the presence of someone who has zero influence and no connections with Putin and Russian power? Weird.

 

[spiriticon]

Even if Putin views NATO expansion as a threat (and I actually sympathise with him on this one, but not much), this is a totally diplomatic issue and in no way allows him an excuse to invade a country. Twice.

The man has gone mad. That is the problem.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Are people genuinely expecting this to calm down today? I'm not well versed as I don't have a deep enough understanding of the political background here but what are the chances of some sort agreement that will see an end to this?

 

[sun_tzu]

Are people genuinely expecting this to calm down today? I'm not well versed as I don't have a deep enough understanding of the political background here but what are the chances of some sort agreement that will see an end to this?

An end... Unlikely ... A pause or de-escalation is likely if an agreement is reached

Now if it will be stuck to that's another question

And what happens if an agreement is not reached is a pretty horrible prospect

 

[Relevated]

Are people genuinely expecting this to calm down today? I'm not well versed as I don't have a deep enough understanding of the political background here but what are the chances of some sort agreement that will see an end to this?

Yes, until the next time this issue is buried under the carpet and putin attacks.

A ceasefire today with talks ongoing between Russia and nato to come to a solution is the best outcome.