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Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You are overreacting. Russian planes will run out of fuel before they get to Poland.
But there are no nuclear weapons officially in any of the countries any closer to Russia?
Exactly. Blow a crater in the road and mine around it to either side as far as humanly possible
if Poland is giving their MIGs to Ukraine, it almost certainly means that they are getting some F16 or better in return.
My worry is that the situations can escalate quickly, even if Putin is not planning a nuclear war. Something like:
1) Poland sends MIGs to Ukraine and allows them to use Poland's airspace and airports
2) MIGs do devastating results in the war, destroying parts of the Russian military caravan.
3) Russia throws a small tactical nuke in Poland's airport from where Ukraine starts their aircrafts. Both to destroy it, but also as a warning sign.
4) Poland invokes article 5, with US immediately retaliating by throwing a tactical nuke in Russian forces or in some Russian' base in Belarus.
5) ...
Thing is, from now to a nuclear war, we are far away. But if (3) happens, a nuclear war becomes an extremely likely scenario. if Putin orders (3), then it is essentially a tossed coin between the end of civilization and Putin getting ousted from power.
Think he means as far away as Germany is from the US
At this point, it's just making it as they go. Logic is really not part of the equation here.
You have 32 F35As coming. A handful of those could do the job of your entire Mig 29 fleet. I wouldn't worry too much.
Even with Boris and Co in charge, there is no way the UK would be sending aircraft to enforce any no fly zone.The normal course of action would be a UN authorised no fly zone - but of course due to russian veto that wont happen
Cant see nato agreeing to it as the hungarians are trying to stop wepons being sent there and Italy / Belgium insisted on still being able to sell luxury goods and diamonds to Russia to pass other sanctions.
Biden has been pretty clear about not committing us personnel to date
It would take a monumentally stupid person to commit UK jets to such a task alone... but that said we have boris and
so we are certainty capable of making a stupid decision
isn't the F-35 a flop? Would have been better off with the latest generation Eurofighter i reckon.
It'll still be better than anything the Russians have. Their airforce is a shambles, their so called military might has been dangerously exposed.
I'm sick of the fighting rhetoric from our Govt. I don't care whether we are right or wrong...if ever there was a need for discretion being the better part of valour, it's now.
My thought also, a No Fly Zone is good on paper, sadly in this situation thats where it should stay on paper
As someone who has shed many tears over what has happened in Syria too and criticised the cruel visa policies of the UK Home Office for many years, I don’t get this mentality. Eastern Europeans have been “other-ed” by the West and used as a political football just as much those of other ethnicities.
How are you chiding the countries, which given the Schengen zone means essentially the entire EU, for helping people flee a war in a country that directly borders them? Syria was and still is an absolute tragedy, but the situation is not comparable in terms of the neighbouring EU just waiving visas and letting them walk across. Criticising those countries who are doing the most now makes no sense. Are you sitting there lamenting Moldova, challenging the hypocrisy of one of the poorest countries in Europe, for welcoming people who are fleeing war in a neighbouring country, because they didn’t do the same for a war in a more distant place?
We all could have done more in the past, we all should have done more in the past, but you are falling into the trap that dictators want if you let previous inaction lead to further inaction.
No. It just would lose in a dogfight against top aircrafts.
However, there would be no dogfigts. The enemy aircrafts would get destroyed without seeing F35.
Head in the sand.
Fox News are very unbiased and free speech compared to these. They are like Putin's personal twitter account.I had a conversation yesterday with someone who helps out with a volunteering effort I'm a part of. Always been nice to me and we have things in common like sports and art projects that whenever I see him we usually talk about. Yesterday though he went off the rails about this situation and I felt a little embarrassed and trying to not prolong the subject with other people around. Naturally it's a topic of discussion among the group but he later pulled me aside to say we're all wrong and believing lies. Asked him what he meant and he went on to he gets all his news from Russian sources like RT and he is furious at the coverage of "those poor Ukrainians dying" (said sarcastically) from western media which he calls propaganda. I made the point that what he is doing getting all his information from one side is no different just because it's the side you like and that ended that. I didn't have him down as a crank.
That just made me think. Trump in the White House during this would give away so much intel and info via Twitter
I think the idea was that the EU would reimburse or provide newer models to the countries that supply the planes. Judging by the twitter thread below, it might prove to be too costly though.
I've not seen any fighting rhetoric, it's all sanctions.
Everyone wants peace until you are not in a position to get it. Then it's too late.
If Putin gets away with this, who knows where he would draw the line? Sanctions is the most effective way to punish Putin.
Of course, the cynic in me is definitely thinking Johnson is loving this because he was gone in any other scenario.
You always wonder about those in the Second World War who thought appeasement was the right track, or then surrendering and looking for a peace deal when Nazi Germany was dominating the war.
Fox news got pretty close while orange man was potus though.
Cheers!!
Pure coincidence on Putin's part. Wait till he finds out.
'I am going to be rich' look on his smirky little face.
I forget who said this recently but it is very accurate that there are people who wishes us to do nothing until we reach a point where they can then say 'there was nothing that could be done.'
Anonymous have been pretty active these days.
Same as my Russian mate. Telling me I am listening to western propaganda.
It's interesting to see different explanations for the invasion.
1: NATO & Ukraine's domestic policy
2: Ukraine's resources
We've seen in this thread statistics about Ukraine's natural resources and hence the suggestion that Russia wants to control these.
3: Ideology
The third would be the ideological explanation, as in Putin having contempt for Ukrainian nationhood and wanting to wipe them off the map.
1: NATO & Ukraine's domestic policy
- Michel Kofman in his pre-invasion assessment of the situation never said anything about Putin's ideological problems with Ukraine at all. It was basically a geopolitical analysis focused on NATO and establishing a pro-Russian government.
- Rob Lee had the same line of thinking as Kofman, noting that Russia saw worrying trend lines such as Turkey selling drones and involving itself in Karabakh, Ukraine's domestic policies shifting to the West. Hence, a desire to establish a pro-Russian government.
2: Ukraine's resources
We've seen in this thread statistics about Ukraine's natural resources and hence the suggestion that Russia wants to control these.
3: Ideology
The third would be the ideological explanation, as in Putin having contempt for Ukrainian nationhood and wanting to wipe them off the map.
Thats what got me thinking, Trump was destroying his own country and people and they still deflected
Gifting stuff like airplanes to Ukraine is literally borderline declaring war yourself. Giving weapons is treading close enough but seriously, part of the effort should also be to deescalate.
you’ll be giving the mad man a reason on a plate to go legitimise his actions against everyone.
you’ll be giving the mad man a reason on a plate to go legitimise his actions against everyone.
Post modern politics is all about gaslighting, and proliferation of fake news causing confusion to the point where people conclude they 'don't know what to believe'. The end goal is that the public look to a 'strong leader' i.e. dictator. This pattern has been embedded in western politics via interference in elections too. See US 2016 election, French election 2017 and Vote Leave campaign.
It's not a stretch to conclude that Russia conspired to appoint liars/dishonest figures in office in leading western countries to degrade public trust in our leaders.
That wouldn't be possible.
It really is unbelievable what I am reading here. It is fooking amazing. My family lost their men during WW II. They bloody volunteered knowing full well that Hitler was just rolling over Europe and western part of USSR. They never thought nah, it is too risky. Why would we fight for Russians when we are not Russian. People being shit scared that their government could be giving their aircrafts to Ukranian pilots to fight Putin. It really is amazing. You know what? What if Germany bombed the sh!te out of Kaliningrad and told the Russian president, this is German territory and it was occupied during WW II. You touch us and we have enough capabilities within NATO to nuke you instantly from all sides?
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Far from it. The narrative has been spun that way because of the cost but it's an incredibly capable aircraft. Nothing outside the US's own air force would stand a chance against it.
What do you mean specifically? You want the West to intervene militarily?
Maybe. Or just realistic.
West is already intervening. I am just really surprised that people areshit scared to be seeing their fighter aircrafts being given to Ukranian pilots to fight against cnut who has declared a war against pretty much powerless country. The cnut who if takes over Ukraine will be right next to these people's doors.