Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Myself and i'm sure many others here don't have a problem with Russian people or even their soldiers, it's Putin, his cronies and the oligarchs who are the issue and where the hatred is directed towards.
I'm sure you don't and it's nice to read that, it's just some things people write on Twitter are ridiculous, but Twitter is one toxic place I guess.
 
I asked @Raoul this question but he didn't answer me, so I'm asking it again for everybody to answer, what economic sanctions did they place on Russia now that they didn't place on Iran?

I don’t think Europe has ever cooperated fully with the American sanctions on Iran. The US kept imposing fines on the European banks that would work with Iran. This seems to be a more comprehensive package and followed willingly by everyone.
 
Do you see Navalny’s call to arms having an effect? Protesting at 7pm every weekday, 2pm every weekend day, etc? It’s getting hard to read whether people are actually protesting in Russia now with media clamping down.
We’ll see. It’s really hard to get a good read on how many people are actually protesting with those guerrilla type of protesting — you don’t get big crowds on big squares as they get dismantled by the police immediately, so you have moving groups of people that march around the city center, adapting to the police movement on the spot.

The only real number we get is the number of arrests and it’s quite high. But the feeling is that they have started to arrest more people, so it’s hard to deduct the number of actual protesters from that number.

I hope that more people would start to go out as the time goes — more and more information starts to go through the wall of Putin’s propaganda (and if troops on the ground can somehow be explained by their line of thinking, the bombing of Kharkiv, Kyiv and the likes can’t be excused even by the most outlandish lie); people are really feeling the economical struggle and its affects on their day-to-day life — so even those who don’t want to empathize with Ukrainians may do so for their own benefit.
 
SWIFT has been operational for 40 years now? CIPS is from barely 7. The current economical state and trade war between US and China and a huge influx of 140 million population that Russia can bring will definitely boost those numbers in the coming years.

As I said China is the far and away the biggest winner of all this and if they play their cards right they will gain advantage over pretty much everybody.
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps out at me I'm not saying it will happen, there are way too many influences at stake for it to even remotely happen, I'm just using it as an example in a dramatic scenario.
 
This is the start of ww3 then!

No, if this is true (the source was critisised and it was a bad source) - then the Russians have gotten a system that not at all can replace SWIFT. Cips is chinese laguage and yen-based. They have 1 clearing station in Moscow. So it would need extensive build up and change to work well. Also CIPS dealt with 11,513 transactions in contrast with round 40 million messages per day for SWIFT.

Edit: But if true, China are taking sides imo.
 
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

That's a hell of an operation their banks would need to perform. Would need to basically rebuild every bank's infrastructure. Where I work we did some napkin calculations on how much it would cost to replace all our legacy stuff that is now end of life, which might be representative of the changes required to completely shift over for example and that came to the low billions. That's one bank.

Can CIFS even support that many transactions per day? That again is a hell of a feat and would need significant work.
 
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps out at me I'm not saying it will happen, there are way too many influences at stake for it to even remotely happen, I'm just using it as an example in a dramatic scenario.
The main challenge is the confidence people have in the yuan vs the US dollar. China isn't transparent enough about its decision-making to give people that much confidence in how they manage their currency.
 

My son was toddling around the brewery site of this beer festival a few months ago. I bought some children's books for him at the building in the background, which is a publishing house. Now the Pravda site is a Molotov factory:

 
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps out at me I'm not saying it will happen, there are way too many influences at stake for it to even remotely happen, I'm just using it as an example in a dramatic scenario.
I thought this when the Swift sanctions were first announced.
 
Russian warship went and fecked itself, maybe.



edit:
"here is an opinion that this is not a Russian ship, but a civilian vessel "Helt" under the Panamanian flag"
 
The main challenge is the confidence people have in the yuan vs the US dollar. China isn't transparent enough about its decision-making to give people that much confidence in how they manage their currency.
I would have to disagree there. I think the problem would be more to do with banking infrastructure as @IWat mentioned, I don't think any nation would have a choice.

One of the reasons why the dollar is strong is because you can only buy oil with the dollar, hence the phrase the petro-dollar. So anyone anywhere in the world that wants to buy oil has to first buy the dollar. Of course I'm talking legally, there are black markets i.e Iranian oil etc. But are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

If Russia and Opec were to decide to only sell in Yuan everyone will literally be forced to buy Yuan to buy Oil, similar to the dollar now. Only way around it for the West would be to ramp up their own productions of oil excessively to compete.

Of course I'm not saying this will happen but just thinking on what options Putin has to evade sanctions.

Problem is for Putin all of them make China top dog.

Or they could sell it in Gold and really feck up the worlds economy...
 
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps out at me I'm not saying it will happen, there are way too many influences at stake for it to even remotely happen, I'm just using it as an example in a dramatic scenario.
It will be the strongest one bar none in this scenario. It depends what China are going to do and how they want to play. If Russia gets them on board those western sanctions might not hurt them as much in the long run. I'd imagine Putin has worked well in advance in that direction.
 
I love how someone is arguing that it'd be wise for China to assist in tanking the global markets to help Russia :lol:
 
No, if this is true (the source was critisised and it was a bad source) - then the Russians have gotten a system that not at all can replace SWIFT. Cips is chinese laguage and yen-based. They have 1 clearing station in Moscow. So it would need extensive build up and change to work well. Also CIPS dealt with 11,513 transactions in contrast with round 40 million messages per day for SWIFT.

Edit: But if true, China are taking sides imo.

Well it is true it's just not news. A decent amount of Russian banks have been on CIPS for sometime now.

The volumes are a bit irrelevant they'll grow quickly if needed but the actual blocker is CIPS is still dependent on SWIFT last i checked.
 
I love how someone is arguing that it'd be wise for China to assist in tanking the global markets to help Russia :lol:
They won't do it to help Russia per say. They will in a sense but use it as a tool to make them the worlds biggest and best economy, but it doesn't mean that Russia will be winners in this transaction. They will be hugely dependent on China for export/import/energy and essentially be their expensive hooker that bears the fruit of being able to access and operate in that market until they are cut off.
 
I'm Serbian and we, as a country, traditionally have close ties with Russia but what their government is doing is clear invasion on another country. My support for Ukraine and their people. Not sure if they can hold on but defending even this long seems impressive given the size of their enemy.

Think what Putin is doing will inevitably spread some anti-Russian sentiment that was probably there in Europe and USA anyways, and even hatred towards Russian people. We have to always remember it can never be fault of every Russian citizen, but of those leading the country.
Meeting Russian premades in world of warcraft aside, I don't think many people are anti-Russian in the UK.
 

This tweet is wrong. Major russian banks are already on CIPS, and even if they just joined it wouldn't improve their ability to trade with the rest of the world in any way. We know they're still going to do business with China and a few other countries anyway, but that's obviously far from enough to prevent their economy from tanking.
 
Let's just say for example, Russia and the opec+ come to an agreement to only sell their oil/gas in yuan. Within a week you'll see those numbers dramatically change. It would crash the dollar and nearly overnight make the Yuan one of the strongest currencies in the world.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps out at me I'm not saying it will happen, there are way too many influences at stake for it to even remotely happen, I'm just using it as an example in a dramatic scenario.
It's not a dramatic scenario, it's a preposterous one. China and most Opec states hold tens of billions in dollar assets and the US consumes c2.5, more oil than China and Russia combined.

Oil is also one asset of loads out there, unless gold, palladium, soy beans etc all switch to yuan.
 
They won't do it to help Russia per say. They will in a sense but use it as a tool to make them the worlds biggest and best economy, but it doesn't mean that Russia will be winners in this transaction. They will be hugely dependent on China for export/import/energy and essentially be their expensive hooker that bears the fruit of being able to access and operate in that market until they are cut off.
I think since the use of dollar as a weapon for Trump against China it has certainly crossed his mind (Xi). Although China has been the biggest winner in this current economy, people do seem to forget that he also has his eyes on Taiwan and will not want the sanctions to effect them as much as well.
 
Well it is true it's just not news. A decent amount of Russian banks have been on CIPS for sometime now.

The volumes are a bit irrelevant they'll grow quickly if needed but the actual blocker is CIPS is still dependent on SWIFT last i checked.


I think there will be sanctions on Chinese banks that do business with russian banks through CIPS if that happens. Still, a sign of where China is headed in this conflict? They have a lot to loose economically if they start taking sides.
 
That's a hell of an operation their banks would need to perform. Would need to basically rebuild every bank's infrastructure. Where I work we did some napkin calculations on how much it would cost to replace all our legacy stuff that is now end of life, which might be representative of the changes required to completely shift over for example and that came to the low billions. That's one bank.

Can CIFS even support that many transactions per day? That again is a hell of a feat and would need significant work.

Why would you need to rebuild your entire systems, CIPS follows the same ISO standards so the integration isn't that different. Obviously many legacy systems are a bit outdated in regards to currency but I've been involved in multi-currency and FX adaptations and it's certainly not even a fraction of that cost.
 
They won't do it to help Russia per say. They will in a sense but use it as a tool to make them the worlds biggest and best economy, but it doesn't mean that Russia will be winners in this transaction. They will be hugely dependent on China for export/import/energy and essentially be their expensive hooker that bears the fruit of being able to access and operate in that market until they are cut off.

First of all, China are less than happy about the current situation and they want it solved, peacefully, just the consequences for the global energy market is of annoyance to China as it means increased costs. Secondly, prior to all of this Ukraine was a bigger trade partner to China than Russia, and China depend on a well functioning global market. Tanking the global market, sure as shit isn't something they're keen on and there's nothing at all right now that suggests Russia is even going to compensate for the increased costs in the energy market.
 
No, if this is true (the source was critisised and it was a bad source) - then the Russians have gotten a system that not at all can replace SWIFT. Cips is chinese laguage and yen-based. They have 1 clearing station in Moscow. So it would need extensive build up and change to work well. Also CIPS dealt with 11,513 transactions in contrast with round 40 million messages per day for SWIFT.

Edit: But if true, China are taking sides imo.

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm worried about the taking sides part if true