Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

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C'mon Poch, your team has to be mentally stronger than that. You can't let one bit of misfortune impact your team to the point they just capitulate like that.

Champions League knockout ties are at least 180 minutes long. Look at yourself and your team before you start crying foul about the referees, Poch. The tie should have been dead and buried by the hour mark of the 2nd leg, that's not the referees fault.
 
C'mon Poch, your team has to be mentally stronger than that. You can't let one bit of misfortune impact your team to the point they just capitulate like that.

Champions League knockout ties are at least 180 minutes long. Look at yourself and your team before you start crying foul about the referees, Poch. The tie should have been dead and buried by the hour mark of the 2nd leg, that's not the referees fault.
I also think VAR had a case to look at Marquinhos' late tackle on Alaba in the box, so it's jsut excuses. Genuinely think the officials did quite well for most of the game, so dick move to blame the outcome on that.
 
I also think VAR had a case to look at Marquinhos' late tackle on Alaba in the box, so it's jsut excuses. Genuinely think the officials did quite well for most of the game, so dick move to blame the outcome on that.

I could have understood if a foul was given. In the middle of the pitch you'd get a freekick all day. I can also understand why the ref allowed it though. But there's no doubt that first goal turned the tide. The urgency and aggression from Madrid went from 0 to 100 after that goal. They wouldn't have scored at all had the ref given the foul. That's why Poch/PSG won't be happy about it.
 
I could have understood if a foul was given. In the middle of the pitch you'd get a freekick all day. I can also understand why the ref allowed it though. But there's no doubt that first goal turned the tide. The urgency and aggression from Madrid went from 0 to 100 after that goal. They wouldn't have scored at all had the ref given the foul. That's why Poch/PSG won't be happy about it.
Well yeah, but it didn't decide the game by any stretch of the imagination. Still had 2 goals to score after that and PSG might have thought about keeping the ball a bit, or even fashioning a chance for themselves. I know Fergie and Mourinho used to use this tactic a lot, but we have to call it out as BS.
 
They should have never collapsed like they did but first goal did change the emotion of the game and gave Madrid chance to get back into it. Not an excuse for losing but not irrelevant either.
 
Seriously, if he can't get a tune out of PSG, no way is he going to get one out of United.
This. I don't get the apologists rebutting with the whole "oh but PSG is a shitshow, its not fair to judge him there".... yeah but so are we! And we don't even have players with the calibre of Veratti, Mbappe, Marquinhos, Hakimi etc.

If PSG is an audition for the role then he's failed it spectacularly IMO. Lowest win percentage out of recent managers, failing to win title in first season (taking over only 2 points off the top), losing domestic cup finals, and now going out in the last 16 of the champions league. On top of that their fans don't seem to rate him either. Yeah he's not going to be doing anything for us.
 
There's certainly no joined up thinking at PSG, it's just buy the best players and hope it works out. However, that's how United operate and we have shitter players so we know how this story ends with Pochettino in charge
 
There's certainly no joined up thinking at PSG, it's just buy the best players and hope it works out. However, that's how United operate and we have shitter players so we know how this story ends with Pochettino in charge
Exactly. Unless massive change is implemented, I fail to see how Poch is a good fit for us.
 
Massive change will be required regardless of who our manager is. Even Pep and Klopp wouldn't win a thing with this lot.

Of course. We desperately need it, we can’t just keep repeating the same mistakes. But obviously I don’t have the faith we’ll do something different, especially if we do end up hiring Poch. He’s not even bald.
 
Owners must see his failure at PSG and move on from him. We have the same problems with egos and the dressing room full of divas but we are not even close to the quality they have. He failed at an easier job, there's no way he can make it at United.
 
Massive change will be required regardless of who our manager is. Even Pep and Klopp wouldn't win a thing with this lot.

Is that the point? Guardiola joined a well oiled machine but Klopp joined a similar dumpster fire to United, he has been the difference.
 
I would pick ETH over Poch but I think people here are exaggerating the difference between them and going a bit too far in slating Poch. He did legitimately great work at Spurs. They might not have won trophies but a lot of that is because he never had the squad depth to compete 100% in all competitions simultaneously. He made some curious choices in cup semifinals and the like too but it wasn't all about his management.

Poch would still be the best managerial appointment United has made post-SAF. He's not Klopp or Guardiola but the reality is that ETH has almost no chance of reaching those heights either. And Klopp and Guardiola are both likely to leave in the next couple years (knock on wood) so whatever difference there might be between them and Poch will be less relevant.
 
Is that the point? Guardiola joined a well oiled machine but Klopp joined a similar dumpster fire to United, he has been the difference.
Not really. Liverpool already had an excellent structure in place, all they needed was a top manager to push on. One that wouldn't actively fight said structure either

But you make a good observation. Maybe you do have a good structure in place too now, and it's just a matter of getting a top manager. Doesn't look like it though...
 
Not really. Liverpool already had an excellent structure in place, all they needed was a top manager to push on. One that wouldn't actively fight said structure either

But you make a good observation. Maybe you do have a good structure in place too now, and it's just a matter of getting a top manager. Doesn't look like it though...

An excellent structure? They literally changed the structure after a year with Klopp going from their committee to a DOF model.
 
An excellent structure? They literally changed the structure after a year with Klopp going from their committee to a DOF model.
The transfer committe stuff was Rodgers exagerating because he was unhappy he didn't have control. The structure was the same
 
You can take the man out of spurs....


But seriously, i don't think he's fit for the sort of big club United seems to see themselves as. This is a guy who actually needs total control. Who needs for the organization to send a clear message down to the players that it's his way or the highway. He's struggling with a team of superstars and even at spurs his downfall was a direct consequence of their success boosting egos to a point his now-household name players began to chafe under his methods

That is how it should be, that’s not a small club mentality.The club should be first.

Whats the point of signing a Pogba, then he doesn’t fit the system or plays how he wants. Then what? A bunch of trolls and racists every post. How much advertising is worth that kind of toxicity.

A club needs an identity and a manager to follow it. After that it should be easy to separate the sheep from the wolves.
 
The transfer committe stuff was Rodgers exagerating because he was unhappy he didn't have control. The structure was the same

Not really Liverpool appointed Edwards as the DOF has part of their very publicized restructuration. It has nothing to do with Rodgers and what he may think or not.

The 37-year-old is being promoted into a newly-created role as part of a restructuring of the football operations. Edwards will now lead the club’s overall football development, including player identification, acquisitions, sales and retention, as well as taking primary responsibility for reviewing and implementing improvements to the training ground environment and infrastructure.
 
Think this gets forgotten, he's had one of the best strikers in the league, in his prime, averaging over 30 goals a season - still didn't win anything.

So did Jose and now Conte. Looks like if Conte doesn't win anything with Kane in the team, he is a poor manager?
 
So did Jose and now Conte. Looks like if Conte doesn't win anything with Kane in the team, he is a poor manager?

Why would you conclude that? Didn't he win many titles outside of Spurs?
 
Why would you conclude that? Didn't he win many titles outside of Spurs?

I don't, its fans who say, he had a 30 goal a season striker and won nothing so hes not good. Well, Conte has the same 30 goal a seasons striker at Spurs, so surely he has to win something?

I think it is unfair to judge Poch or any manager who isn't managing the top teams on trophies alone.
 
So did Jose and now Conte. Looks like if Conte doesn't win anything with Kane in the team, he is a poor manager?
Jose actually never got a chance to prove he could win anything seeing as they sacked him before a final, so we'll never know. If Conte doens't win anything in 293 games, whilst having one of, if not the best striker in the league - then yeah.
 
Think this gets forgotten, he's had one of the best strikers in the league, in his prime, averaging over 30 goals a season - still didn't win anything.
The funny thing is that Pochettino's greatest achievement came when he didn't have Kane available.
He went to the CL final without him ...
 
Jose actually never got a chance to prove he could win anything seeing as they sacked him before a final, so we'll never know. If Conte doens't win anything in 293 games, whilst having one of, if not the best striker in the league - then yeah.

Oh right, so whos fault was it that Jose got sacked? Surely not Jose?

Also, so now the metric has changed, the manager has to have played 293 games before judging him?
 
I don't, its fans who say, he had a 30 goal a season striker and won nothing so hes not good. Well, Conte has the same 30 goal a seasons striker at Spurs, so surely he has to win something?

I think it is unfair to judge Poch or any manager who isn't managing the top teams on trophies alone.

To me that's a weak argument because the point made when you mention Kane, is that Pochettino had a top squad and one of the best player in the world. It's not as if we are talking about a team that only had Kane, they also had prime Vertonghen, Dembélé, Eriksen, Son, Alli, Alderweireld, Lloris. His top 15 was by some distance the best in EL which is a competition that they played several times and failed miserably.

I would understand your argument if we were talking about Moyes at Everton but Pochettino benefitted and contributed to something quite exceptional, he led an actual top squad in a club that is generally not a top club but won nothing. To me that's the difference between a good and a very good coach, Pochettino doesn't give you a winning edge, he seemingly doesn't have it.

I don't actually have an other example of a manager having that much talent in a squad for that long and win nothing, not a national cup, EL, UEFA cup. It's not that common.
 
The funny thing is that Pochettino's greatest achievement came when he didn't have Kane available.
He went to the CL final without him ...
Very fair point, but in the league I struggle to see how he was a hinderance for them.
Oh right, so whos fault was it that Jose got sacked? Surely not Jose?

Also, so now the metric has changed, the manager has to have played 293 games before judging him?
Of course it's his fault, im just saying he got to a final, he could have potentially won something but wasn't even allowed to - great decision that also turned out to be. Mourinho still delivered trophies with us with a team worse than that Spurs side.

The 293 games was to highlight how long Poch had with a striker at the top of his game, Conte does not take that long to create a team that can win something, if he had players of the quality that Poch did. Also Kane and Son recently broke the record for combined goal combinations, so they're both objectively prolific and he had them in their prime as well as all the players @JPRouve mentions and still won absolutely nothing.
 
I think it is unfair to judge Poch or any manager who isn't managing the top teams on trophies alone.

Obviously, yes.

But Poch is managing a top team now. And he can't get a tune out of said team - not really.

I'm not talking about getting knocked out the other night - that's one match, and shit does happen (and Real Madrid is obviously - still - a team filled with enough potential quality to present a problem to anyone).

But there's absolutely nothing impressive about what he's accomplished in Paris.

In order to excuse him, one has to bring up factors like "it's a circus" or "yeah, but Messi's old now" or "they can't press"...which some people might find adequate, but others will call special pleading.

Bottom line is - again: it's not impressive at all. Or - if you will: there is absolutely nothing in it which could possibly serve as a reason for wanting him at United.
 
It's going to be galling when he ends up here. If he can't get this PSG side playing well then what hope do we have? Holding out the faintest hope that the club'll be smart enough not to appoint him but I'm expecting the worst.
 
The usual responses here by the Poch haters ... No idea why he gets so much stick here, its like someone started this nonsense and everyone has jumped on it because its the in thing to do.

PSG were in total control of that tie, dominated the first let, in control for a hour in the second leg and then a bunch of individual howlers has completely turned the game on its head.

PSG as a club seem to do this every year and yet Poch is to blame for the individual errors that seem to blight this club ?

Poch may not quite be a Pep or a Klopp but he's a far better manager than some make out here.
 
Pochettino is a tough one for me.

I think his performance at Spurs is underrated, finishing 2nd or 3rd for three consecutive years if I'm not mistaken. Competing against oil money.

I thought Pochettino was the man we should have got instead of Mourinho and then instead of Solskjaer. In my mind it's just a bit too late and there's better options now
 
Pochettino is a tough one for me.

I think his performance at Spurs is underrated, finishing 2nd or 3rd for three consecutive years if I'm not mistaken. Competing against oil money.

I thought Pochettino was the man we should have got instead of Mourinho and then instead of Solskjaer. In my mind it's just a bit too late and there's better options now
First time I've heard anyone say this. He won nothing with them and still gets compared with the best regularly.
 
To me that's a weak argument because the point made when you mention Kane, is that Pochettino had a top squad and one of the best player in the world. It's not as if we are talking about a team that only had Kane, they also had prime Vertonghen, Dembélé, Eriksen, Son, Alli, Alderweireld, Lloris. His top 15 was by some distance the best in EL which is a competition that they played several times and failed miserably.

I would understand your argument if we were talking about Moyes at Everton but Pochettino benefitted and contributed to something quite exceptional, he led an actual top squad in a club that is generally not a top club but won nothing. To me that's the difference between a good and a very good coach, Pochettino doesn't give you a winning edge, he seemingly doesn't have it.

I don't actually have an other example of a manager having that much talent in a squad for that long and win nothing, not a national cup, EL, UEFA cup. It's not that common.

Who made those players better?

You say that but realistically, Jose still had Kane, Son, Alderwerield, Moura, Lloris, Alli all in their prime too, he couldn't get them to finish higher than 7th.

I still think he is a very good manager, yes he might not have the trophies edge but, lets not kid ourselves, he is a very good coach.

We talk about United as if we are ready to win something, we aren't. We need a manager who is proven to build a style of football. ETH and Poch both do fit the profile for it.
 
Very fair point, but in the league I struggle to see how he was a hinderance for them.

Of course it's his fault, im just saying he got to a final, he could have potentially won something but wasn't even allowed to - great decision that also turned out to be. Mourinho still delivered trophies with us with a team worse than that Spurs side.

The 293 games was to highlight how long Poch had with a striker at the top of his game, Conte does not take that long to create a team that can win something, if he had players of the quality that Poch did. Also Kane and Son recently broke the record for combined goal combinations, so they're both objectively prolific and he had them in their prime as well as all the players @JPRouve mentions and still won absolutely nothing.

You can talk about this quality of players, who brought the players together and bind it together? Poch.

You talking as if Son, Kane are oap's, they are 29 so very much so in their prime, if you ask some they say 27 onwards is the prime, Conte has Kane and Son in their prime.

Right, we will see how many trophies Conte wins, unless he leaves, which means he realises Spurs aint winning anything.
 
Obviously, yes.

But Poch is managing a top team now. And he can't get a tune out of said team - not really.

I'm not talking about getting knocked out the other night - that's one match, and shit does happen (and Real Madrid is obviously - still - a team filled with enough potential quality to present a problem to anyone).

But there's absolutely nothing impressive about what he's accomplished in Paris.

In order to excuse him, one has to bring up factors like "it's a circus" or "yeah, but Messi's old now" or "they can't press"...which some people might find adequate, but others will call special pleading.

Bottom line is - again: it's not impressive at all. Or - if you will: there is absolutely nothing in it which could possibly serve as a reason for wanting him at United.

Well, he will most likely win the French league. yet, people will use the excuses "its the French league, anyone can win that with PSG",

The work he done at Southampton and Tottenham is forgotten then?
 
Who made those players better?

You say that but realistically, Jose still had Kane, Son, Alderwerield, Moura, Lloris, Alli all in their prime too, he couldn't get them to finish higher than 7th.

I still think he is a very good manager, yes he might not have the trophies edge but, lets not kid ourselves, he is a very good coach.

We talk about United as if we are ready to win something, we aren't. We need a manager who is proven to build a style of football. ETH and Poch both do fit the profile for it.

I'm pretty sure that I clearly stated that he contributed. The point isn't to tell you that Pochettino is a bad a manager or that he is not good, that would be silly. The point is that he isn't a winner and that he has been in a position to win regularly and didn't.

I feel that I need to make that point almost everyime in this thread, I have always rated Pochettino as a manager and was heavily behind his hiring in 2016 but at some point we can't ignore the fact that he hasn't been a winner. Personally I don't see it as a deal breaker because I would happily use him as a bridge head coach since I trust his ability to raise the floor of his teams but by now I'm pretty sure that he isn't a winner and doesn't raise the ceiliing of his teams.
 
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