F1 2022 Season

Dan_F said:
What’s the benefit? Everyone will be trying to go as fast as possible next week regardless or whether Merc bang in a fast lap or not.
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I think the purpose of Sandbagging is to give your opponents a false confidence that means they think they have nothing to do. And no time to adjust anything.

In reality Mercedes are either in big trouble or are sandbagging. With the new design - half sidepods if you were a Merc or Hamilton/Russell fan you'd have to be hoping that this should be all about giving you a new massive improvement I'd have thought. We might see a Merc with sidepods on race weekend or not.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Sky have Mercedes 3rd behind Red Bull and Ferrari, I would say that's fair.
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If they don't fix that porpoising issue can you see a driver making it to race distance? :lol:
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Still not sure, mind games from Lewis ?
Russell is or was close, Lewis with a poor testing for me, he has not even been close to P1.
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the problem is that merc car just doesnt look right going around the track and they still clearly cant lower it enough without it bobbling all over the place. even if they have it on a low engine mode that wont change the fundamental issues the car is currently experiencing. Im not really speaking to times even though russell was a second off max at the end . Car just looks exactly like hamilton described it. Maybe they can fix it for next week
 
ChaddyP said:
the problem is that merc car just doesnt look right going around the track and they still clearly cant lower it enough without it bobbling all over the place. even if they have it on a low engine mode that wont change the fundamental issues the car is currently experiencing. Im not really speaking to times even though russell was a second off max at the end . Car just looks exactly like hamilton described it. Maybe they can fix it for next week
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Having listened to Gary Anderson on this a few times it's apparently difficult to mimic the porpoising in test conditions (i.e. you would damage your wind tunnel if you bottomed out on the belts)

So I'm not sure it's going to be that easy a fix ... That said it could be they were not trying to fix it this test and getting as much data as possible about it.

There was a lot of talk about the new minimal side pod car being significantly faster in the simulator but we have not seen that in this test.

Quali3 will perhaps be the first time we really see these cars pushed for a full lap so that's gonna be interesting ... As well as to see any developments between the tests and the race
 
sun_tzu said:
Having listened to Gary Anderson on this a few times it's apparently difficult to mimic the porpoising in test conditions (i.e. you would damage your wind tunnel if you bottomed out on the belts)

So I'm not sure it's going to be that easy a fix ... That said it could be they were not trying to fix it this test and getting as much data as possible about it.

There was a lot of talk about the new minimal side pod car being significantly faster in the simulator but we have not seen that in this test.

Quali3 will perhaps be the first time we really see these cars pushed for a full lap so that's gonna be interesting ... As well as to see any developments between the tests and the race
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yeh I listened to Garry and a bunch others about the ability to have it correlate in the wind tunnel. Would be a bit weird to not fix a fundamental issue with the car instead of adding on entire new aero bits that only made the issue seem worse though. Most other teams have gotten a handle on it . Red bull is slammed to the ground no issue after having it initially in Barcelona
 
ChaddyP said:
yeh I listened to Garry and a bunch others about the ability to have it correlate in the wind tunnel. Would be a bit weird to not fix a fundamental issue with the car instead of adding on entire new aero bits that only made the issue seem worse though. Most other teams have gotten a handle on it . Red bull is slammed to the ground no issue after having it initially in Barcelona
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They do have the best in the game on there team when it comes to car design in Adrian Newey.
 
ChaddyP said:
yeh I listened to Garry and a bunch others about the ability to have it correlate in the wind tunnel. Would be a bit weird to not fix a fundamental issue with the car instead of adding on entire new aero bits that only made the issue seem worse though. Most other teams have gotten a handle on it . Red bull is slammed to the ground no issue after having it initially in Barcelona
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Yes but considering Merc brought essentially a new car (at least new sidepods and floor) between the two tests I wonder if they had time to work on that as well between the tests
 
sun_tzu said:
Yes but considering Merc brought essentially a new car (at least new sidepods and floor) between the two tests I wonder if they had time to work on that as well between the tests
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red bull also brought a " new car" , so much so they had to be dremmeling the body work an hour into running to make it fit properly . anyway again as was the case last year, mercedes are on the back foot . They are a fantastic team and have fantastic people working for them that will get to the issues sooner or later but they are not sandbagging as crazy as people may think in my opinion
 
ChaddyP said:
red bull also brought a " new car" , so much so they had to be dremmeling the body work an hour into running to make it fit properly . anyway again as was the case last year, mercedes are on the back foot . They are a fantastic team and have fantastic people working for them that will get to the issues sooner or later but they are not sandbagging as crazy as people may think in my opinion
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My understanding is that the floor for this test was designed and fabrication started prior to the first test... So probably no real changes possible from the first test to this one

Will be telling if they have significantly reduced porpoising in the qualifying

I think as well with a few different side pod and front wing designs (and nobody really knows what's going on with the floors as you can't see them) we are going to see different teams do better at some circuits than others as their car will be naturally better suited.

Red bull and Ferrari both look good at the moment though I think the Merc times through the slow sections were pretty notable so that could be something to keep an eye on.

Think it will be a few gps till we have a real insight but would be great if we could have a season with three or four teams in with a shout of winning
 
So Mercedes look like they have work to do, well on the surface they do, maybe they are holding back, maybe they did not need to push because they already know all they want too.
Both Lewis and George have said there is work to be done, are they playing mind games ?
Will they start with first race with the zero side pods ?
First race is looking more exciting.
 
just hope nobody is too far in front, a 3 way battle for the championship would be epic
 
pauldyson1uk said:
So Mercedes look like they have work to do, well on the surface they do, maybe they are holding back, maybe they did not need to push because they already know all they want too.
Both Lewis and George have said there is work to be done, are they playing mind games ?
Will they start with first race with the zero side pods ?
First race is looking more exciting.
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Mercedes always do this. They always look slow during testing, they always go "oh no the car's not quick enough, we're definitely the underdogs now!" and then they're miraculously fast during race weekend. Maybe it worked the first time they did it but literally nobody believes them now. Would be funny if they're actually slow this time though :lol:
 
Anyone but Red Bull and I wouldn’t mind too much. Not because of Max, and certainly not because of Perez. I just really do dislike Horner.

It would be so great to see Ferrari take it. McLaren competing would be great too. And like all 4 of those drivers too. I’d love Williams to compete but that’s just unrealistic.

After that, Mercedes because I just have sympathy for Hamilton and I’d like to see Russell do well.

Quite indifferent to everyone else really although would be nice to see Gasly, Vettel, Schumi and Alonso do well.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Mercedes always do this. They always look slow during testing, they always go "oh no the car's not quick enough, we're definitely the underdogs now!" and then they're miraculously fast during race weekend. Maybe it worked the first time they did it but literally nobody believes them now. Would be funny if they're actually slow this time though :lol:
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I see where your coming from and yes I agree with do always do it.
Watched more of testing than I normally do and Russell is about where I expected him to be, but Lewis was way off the pace, never got close to a decent time.
The shakedown test was the same, did nothing until the last day them did some P1 times, I was expecting the same in the last hour, but nothing.
 
rpitroda said:
Anyone but Red Bull and I wouldn’t mind too much. Not because of Max, and certainly not because of Perez. I just really do dislike Horner.

It would be so great to see Ferrari take it. McLaren competing would be great too. And like all 4 of those drivers too. I’d love Williams to compete but that’s just unrealistic.

After that, Mercedes because I just have sympathy for Hamilton and I’d like to see Russell do well.

Quite indifferent to everyone else really although would be nice to see Gasly, Vettel, Schumi and Alonso do well.
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I am the same, 100% anybody but Red Bull and the is all down to Horner.
Would like Ferrari to do well this season, McLaren have cooling problems, Alpha's look decent, also HAAS looks like a decent car.
 
rpitroda said:
Anyone but Red Bull and I wouldn’t mind too much. Not because of Max, and certainly not because of Perez. I just really do dislike Horner.

It would be so great to see Ferrari take it. McLaren competing would be great too. And like all 4 of those drivers too. I’d love Williams to compete but that’s just unrealistic.

After that, Mercedes because I just have sympathy for Hamilton and I’d like to see Russell do well.

Quite indifferent to everyone else really although would be nice to see Gasly, Vettel, Schumi and Alonso do well.
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Same for me. Except I dislike Max and Horner. Also Helmut. :lol:

It's a shame a good guy like Adrian Newey is working for them.
 
ChaddyP said:
Red bull just looks so much more graceful and dialed in. I don't think Hamilton was bluffing with his statements.
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I dont think hes bluffing, gonna stick my neck out and say at Bahrain, neither Mercedes qualifies in top 5.

The car has masses of potential to unlock, however Mercedes are hamstrung by the new rules and have the least amount of wind tunnel time to try to fix it.
 
Feels like it’s going to be a banger of a season. Hoping for a lot of close races
 
One thing that needs to be considered, such a dramatic change to the Mercedes design is not common. It almost seems to me that there was a large concept change half way through the design process which is not a good sign.

design is largely evolution not revolution after the concept phase because everything is designed around core design…
 
RoyH1 said:
Feels like it’s going to be a banger of a season. Hoping for a lot of close races
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This is probably where I'm at, I'm confident we'll have some outliers but broadly speaking we'll see a much closer battle between teams.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I am the same, 100% anybody but Red Bull and the is all down to Horner.
Would like Ferrari to do well this season, McLaren have cooling problems, Alpha's look decent, also HAAS looks like a decent car.
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If Alfa and haas both have decent cars that should point to Ferrari being a beast this season as they are basically B-tec Ferrari, both have gained experience of Ferrari engineers as Ferrari had to let go of them for financial limits. Also alfa is the best looking car out there
 
mariachi-19 said:
One thing that needs to be considered, such a dramatic change to the Mercedes design is not common. It almost seems to me that there was a large concept change half way through the design process which is not a good sign.

design is largely evolution not revolution after the concept phase because everything is designed around core design…
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I have a thought that the new radical zero side pods have been in development for a while, a good while and they were not seen at the shakedown test because they were just not ready.
What Wind tunnel testing they could do , according to a few things I have read, pointed to a massive improvement on the standard side pods.
It the porpoising that they cant get to grips with , it looks violent at times.
Both Lewis and George have said the car is not there, George got some decent times in, Lewis did not, we know both will have cars set up different , each will have their own little tweaks, purely on testing and I dont normally give much time to testing times, George has found his sweet spot, where has Lewis has yet to.
Can Mercedes turn it round in 6 days and put themselves on P1 and P2 on Saturday, only time will tell.
 
christy87 said:
If Alfa and haas both have decent cars that should point to Ferrari being a beast this season as they are basically B-tec Ferrari, both have gained experience of Ferrari engineers as Ferrari had to let go of them for financial limits. Also alfa is the best looking car out there
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I did think this also, hoping that Ferrari get it together and can challenge and do it with a legal car :nervous:
 
I've not seen myself but a few twitter accounts were saying Mercedes weren't engaging 8th gear at all and were doing a lot of lifting. Not sure if holding back to test temps or due to porpoising.
 
senorgregster said:
I've not seen myself but a few twitter accounts were saying Mercedes weren't engaging 8th gear at all and were doing a lot of lifting. Not sure if holding back to test temps or due to porpoising.
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They weren't, same with Red Bull as well.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I have a thought that the new radical zero side pods have been in development for a while, a good while and they were not seen at the shakedown test because they were just not ready.
What Wind tunnel testing they could do , according to a few things I have read, pointed to a massive improvement on the standard side pods.
It the porpoising that they cant get to grips with , it looks violent at times.
Both Lewis and George have said the car is not there, George got some decent times in, Lewis did not, we know both will have cars set up different , each will have their own little tweaks, purely on testing and I dont normally give much time to testing times, George has found his sweet spot, where has Lewis has yet to.
Can Mercedes turn it round in 6 days and put themselves on P1 and P2 on Saturday, only time will tell.
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Oh I’m not saying they haven’t been in development for a long time, but it is bizzare to see such a core component of the top half aero change so dramatically.

If they’re struggling for balance, my theory probably holds close to the truth.

Kinda reminds me about Williams and 2004 with the Walrus nose.
 
senorgregster said:
I've not seen myself but a few twitter accounts were saying Mercedes weren't engaging 8th gear at all and were doing a lot of lifting. Not sure if holding back to test temps or due to porpoising.
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They had to lift , if not George would have bounced out of the car had they gone faster down the straight :lol:
 
Any sympathy naive people might have had for Mazespin should be swiftly corrected when they watch episode 4 of D2S.

What a cnut. And very obvious where he gets it from. Gunter must be so delighted to have been given the excuse to jettison those two cretins.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I have a thought that the new radical zero side pods have been in development for a while, a good while and they were not seen at the shakedown test because they were just not ready.
What Wind tunnel testing they could do , according to a few things I have read, pointed to a massive improvement on the standard side pods.
It the porpoising that they cant get to grips with , it looks violent at times.
Both Lewis and George have said the car is not there, George got some decent times in, Lewis did not, we know both will have cars set up different , each will have their own little tweaks, purely on testing and I dont normally give much time to testing times, George has found his sweet spot, where has Lewis has yet to.
Can Mercedes turn it round in 6 days and put themselves on P1 and P2 on Saturday, only time will tell.
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The new slimline pods have definitely been in Mercedes plans for at least a year id say. In order to run such thin air pods, you need to do alot of work on cooling the car and the engine. Mercedes spend along time on cooling aspects for this years engine, so you would conclude that it was always in their plans to run slim side pods.

The porposing is probably the most annoying factor for for them, as it really affects the car at higher speeds. I guess Mercedes plan was to use the maximum output of the engine in races to help them while they try to understand this years car, i.e. be very fast in the straights, but slower in the corners for now. Porposing throws that plan out of the window.

I suspect if Mercedes get on top of their problems and unlock the full potential of this years car i.e. match the simulation, then it will be the quickest car on the grid by some margin. Thats my hunch. But they have alot of work to do and limited allowance of time in which to do the work.
 
hobbers said:
Any sympathy naive people might have had for Mazespin should be swiftly corrected when they watch episode 4 of D2S.

What a cnut. And very obvious where he gets it from. Gunter must be so delighted to have been given the excuse to jettison those two cretins.
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and to have taken that dickheads money too. Good luck recovering it. There is not a court in the western world that will hear the matter.
 
hobbers said:
Any sympathy naive people might have had for Mazespin should be swiftly corrected when they watch episode 4 of D2S.

What a cnut. And very obvious where he gets it from. Gunter must be so delighted to have been given the excuse to jettison those two cretins.
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We don’t often agree, but exactly what I posted too yesterday. Good riddance to these cnuts.
 
hp88 said:


He just doesn’t get it
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Yes...
No

But on the season Red Bull and Ferrari look really fast and hopefully LeClerc wasn't shitting when he said they weren't even close to fully run the car. Max looked to give his car a very thorough run yesterday. The Mercs look like they have a problem there isn't much happiness in their camp right now, no smiles at all. But they will get there, they always do. Hopefully we will have Ferrari, Bulls and Mercs battling it out all season long.

PS Mazepin can do one.
 
dinostar77 said:
The new slimline pods have definitely been in Mercedes plans for at least a year id say. In order to run such thin air pods, you need to do alot of work on cooling the car and the engine. Mercedes spend along time on cooling aspects for this years engine, so you would conclude that it was always in their plans to run slim side pods.

The porposing is probably the most annoying factor for for them, as it really affects the car at higher speeds. I guess Mercedes plan was to use the maximum output of the engine in races to help them while they try to understand this years car, i.e. be very fast in the straights, but slower in the corners for now. Porposing throws that plan out of the window.

I suspect if Mercedes get on top of their problems and unlock the full potential of this years car i.e. match the simulation, then it will be the quickest car on the grid by some margin. Thats my hunch. But they have alot of work to do and limited allowance of time in which to do the work.
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All good points.
The vertical bounce issue is a real problem for them. As you say, just a few days until Saturday qualifying.
Nevertheless, it shows that they have very effective downforce. Maybe too strong.
It will be very interesting to see how they are able to resolve this and extract the full capabilities of the design.
Because they don't need that amount of downforce on the straight and at top speed. It is needed at slower speeds during the corners.
 
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