Caf is a shit judge of managers. Fans are too obsessed with the results and tend to ignore the context a manager is under. Ole is performing well because he had a really expensive squad compared to Arsenal. Of course Ole is going to have an easier time securing top 4 compared to Arteta.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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Caf is a shit judge of managers. Fans are too obsessed with the results and tend to ignore the context a manager is under. Ole is performing well because he had a really expensive squad compared to Arsenal. Of course Ole is going to have an easier time securing top 4 compared to Arteta.
If he lose against liverpool he will be the worst coach ever for Arsenal again and he is finished. Just check the Pep Suck watch thread after every time City "draw" a game.
Yep. I'd say in general people are terrible at judging managers. Also, people have no grey areas. Poch doesn't win a trophy he is now ultimate shite and worthless of a manager. Tuchel loses few games, he's garbage and overrated etc
Judging played can be hard, judging managers is much harder.
You make a very good point about context, there are so many factors at play and these often get missed or ignored.
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I find it's more of an United fanbase issue than an issue at other clubs imo. The years under Fergie has blinded the United fanbase as to what makes a good manager. United fans for some reason seems to rate Ole for not being a tactical manager and dislike more tactical managers.
There is this "anti-hipster" trend in Caf.
Tactics are a bit overvalued because they're more easily seen compared to other things managers do.
They are also easy to write and talk about, especially when a team is winning games. So you can find plenty of articles and comments talking about managers as "tactically astute." Once the results stop being good, which happens quite often when the manager switches clubs, they are suddenly stubborn or naive or many other things.
Its hard to judge if Arteta is shaping Arsenal into anything special or is it just a build-up to nothing. After all, Ole also got us to a top 4 finish in 2019/20 when we were seriously lacking quality. Opinions change from match to match but given what we have seen from him earlier, its difficult to heap any disproportionate praise on him. Not to further downplay his achievements this season, the fact is that he is competing against 2 clubs who have both changed their managers mid season.
I think they are undervalued by most fans. Pep's deep understanding and obsession with tactics allowed him to dominate leagues. But fans outside of his clubs tend to downplay that and attribute everything to the resources he had at his disposal. Too many managers talk about buying good players as a way out. Yeah, clubs like PSG has shown you can win a weaker league with a heavily stacked team, but they never dominate it the way Guardiola does at stronger leagues.
Ole got into top 4 due to the strength of Man United squad, and having all his key players hit a purple patch in form. Ole with a strong squad tend to squeak to victory by close margins all the time.
Arsenal on the other hand had to give away players essentially for free because all their top-earners are performing so badly that they have no strong value in the market. If Arteta had the same resources at Arsenal as Ole had at Man United, it would be legitimate to ask serious question about his performance.
The fact of the matter is, Arsenal is no way near United in terms of spending and resources.
This is kind of what I mean.
There are plenty of managers who seemingly have a "deep understanding" and "obsession with" tactics and they don't win anything. Guardiola's current assistant is a good example of that.
What allows Guardiola to dominate leagues is his ability to implement tactics and football concepts, not his knowledge of them.
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It is an important quality. There are managers in non-league football who have studied the greats and have a clear idea of how they want to play, but the ability (and credibility) needed to implement these styles is a massive hurdle, and that's ignoring the context of the kind of players they possess and the league they are in.
I think it was Nagelsmann who when asked about his own approach stated that "thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70 per cent social competence".
It could be argued Arsenal have benefited from ourselves and Spurs having turbulent seasons with both clubs sacking their managers and bringing new coaches to start new eras, or in our case a caretaker until the actual coach is appointed.
But then Arsenal seem to have been savvy recently bringing in players under the radar and developing a promising young team free.
I guess next season will tell a wider picture for all three clubs.
But then Arsenal seem to have been savvy recently bringing in players under the radar and developing a promising young team free.
I guess next season will tell a wider picture for all three clubs.
I don't understand this logic at all really.
We aren't benefiting from anything. We're on course for 70 points, which is a very typical top 4 point total.
If 4th place got 60-65 points, then yes, but what you're saying is irrelevant to how we're doing.
For what it's worth, Spurs are currently in the exact same position they were in last year point wise, except last year they were 3 points off top 4.
United are 7 points worse off, but were 2nd this time last year.
Arsenal are 14 points better than last year..
And Nagelsmann is also somebody who has worked within very strong organizations where there were other competent people tasked with buying and selling players and with maintaining winning organizational culture. If you are in a situation where that doesn't really exist, as was the case for Arteta when he arrived at Arsenal, then that becomes a big part of succeeding in the job too, making the portion allotted to tactics even smaller than 30%.
And my point is managers that don't show a deep appreciation of tactics usually don't end up being title winning managers either, especially in more modern era.
Mourinho upended the PL when he first arrived was because he paid a far greater emphasis on tactics than what the league used to. Some managed to adapt, while others (like Wenger) start finding themselves left behind overtime.
The logic is simple. Arsenal didn't progress or improve and Arteta is shit. Arsenal has more points this season than last because Man Utd and Spurs changed manager in mid season. Nothing to do with Arsenal consistently got 3 points against teams outside of top 6. Next season Man Utd and Spurs will be back to their normal selves and Arsenal will be back to 8th place. Arteta is still shit. It is quite easy to understand.
No Europe. 3rd round cup exit. Moaning about congested fixtures.
He will bottle this and we will end up 4th.
Yeah right
They have no other competitions. Only Premier League. Stupid excuse. They'll get top 4 anyways.
They matched us without threatening Alisson's goal much until that Odegaard chance (which came from a Thiago back pass gone wrong). They were very well organized until we scored the two goals though. I think they might end up doing it but it depends what United do between now and the end of the season as well. Arsenal look like a more settled side than United do.
Arteta probably loves the smell of his own farts.
True. What Arsenal lacked tonight was what your team had...quality finishers. From a neutral I think the game was even up until you all scored, additionally, Arsenal technically played with zero strikers as every time they progressed in the wide areas, Lacazette was nowhere to be found.
PS. You need to ask Trent what he did to Martinelli. He's gonna have nightmares.
Who is? Martinelli was all over Trent until Klopp made sure to double/triple team him.
You're clearly not watching them enough. You can clearly see a plan on positional play, pressing, defending and overall improvement in this Arsenal team. They're lacking key players like a top striker and maybe a more attacking version of Xhaka but what he's done with the team and their trajectory can be clearly seen.
Yeah agreed, Martinelli had Trent on skates the whole game, he was unlucky and deserved at least a goal. He should've scored from his chance near the end though.
The fact they lost their first 3 games and are woeful against top sides yet they still get 4th says everything about the PL. 2 elite sides and 1 very good side the rest are average
If you think our games against City and Liverpool tonight were woeful, you need to learn some new words.
The finishing was the difference in both games sadly, but we held our own for most of it.
Yeah that's what I meant. Martinelli literally looked like he had a vendetta vs Trent.
Good game. Not surprised by the result. The team tried their best and I can't fault their effort.
Very happy with the progress, we need to improve on Cedric, Xhaka and Laca to improve this team. They had Firminho and Salah coming from the bench and we had zero options up front. Good to see that we didn't roll over which was the case since last 5-6 season's.
That is the caf on a grumpy day. Every loss is woeful, rivals are lucky and nothing special. Everything is shit basically and no one deserves credit.
A striker who can actually score goals might have made the difference for us last night. I understand that moving Auba on has probably helped improve dressing room unity and that is coming through in our recent performances but Laca cant score goals and is at best a poundland Firmino. If we don’t secure 4th this season I’m sure this will be a key factor.
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City for sure. Liverpool yesterday I think u were compact but wasn’t very good. Didn't really create many clear cut chances when Liverpool first half were quite poor (and still could have gone in 1-0 up)
Overall though you have improved, still the record vs the top sides in the league this season is indeed woeful.
Still think you are the best team outside the top 3 though
The first half was pretty impressive, a clear plan to attack wide and isolate Martinelli vs TAA and it worked well. Martinelli was terrorizing that flank, the nutmeg on Henderson was a nice bonus.
Problem might be that you don't get enough bodies in the box once the wide player manages to get through, this might be connected to the fact both Xhaka and Partey aren't prone to attacking the box? Of course that might also be due to the opponent you played and the need to contain them.
Problem might be that you don't get enough bodies in the box once the wide player manages to get through, this might be connected to the fact both Xhaka and Partey aren't prone to attacking the box? Of course that might also be due to the opponent you played and the need to contain them.
Really leaning into his Lego Pep persona
You literally became good after you fecked off Auba. It improved everything
You do need upgrades on Xhaka and Laca though, sure
Pretty long day that. I wish my days were that long, the stuff I'd be able to get done!
i.e. hundreds of thousands of internet posts instead of just thousands
Their fixture list has plenty of banana skins to for such a small squad.
I dont think they’ll get top 4 because they’ll Arsenal it up somewhere.
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Lacazette and Xhaka are pretty slow and not very mobile. It's frustrating watching them slowly amble towards the box every time we attack.
It definitely affects the way we press too