Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

They should say we have no problem negotiating with Russia but we want Putin to step down and agree to a new election for his replacement
 
McGrathsipan said:
What is thus denazification the prick is on about?

Was there even anything remotely dangerous to Russia in Ukraine?
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Democracy. It's like an evil Western virus that won't go away and it's infecting all the younger people in Russia who really just want more foie gras and oysters in their life, that's all.
 
golden_blunder said:
They should say we have no problem negotiating with Russia but we want Putin to step down and agree to a new election for his replacement
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If this continues for another few weeks, Ukraine's terms may well wind up.

- All Russian troops out of Ukraine
- Full restoration of internationally recognized Ukrainian territory (Donbas and Crimea included)
- Neutrality and nuclear disarmament of Russia
- Denazification of Russian politics
 
VorZakone said:
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It is not immediately clear whether the latest EU information derives from the same sources or Europe's own intelligence.
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sounds like america has just sent the EU report that they leaked to the press a few days ago?

think Biden and Xi are in talks around now and a few hours ago China sailed an aircraft carrier close to taiwan... so pretty clear message there that if biden wants china to stay out out of this one they expect the same in the future
 
LDUred said:
Yep, was thinking the exact same thing. Imagining that it's just 'Putin's war' has always struck me as wishful, Pollyanna thinking. Sure, there will be intellectuals who will vehemently and eloquently oppose Putin, but they will be in the minority and easy to isolate.

Your average Russian will be captive to a propaganda machine that has been churning out abject nationalist drivel for the last twenty years. We shouldn't underestimate how immersive that is and how that attitude will become entrenched during a time when Russia is at war.
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Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious -- Oscar Wilde
 
sun_tzu said:
sounds like america has just sent the EU report that they leaked to the press a few days ago?

think Biden and Xi are in talks around now and a few hours ago China sailed an aircraft carrier close to taiwan... so pretty clear message there that if biden wants china to stay out out of this one they expect the same in the future
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China's interest is that it doesn't want Putin to fall, because if he can then autocratic China may not be far behind. Not to dissimilar with how they don't want Kim's regime to fall in North Korea. Autocrats tend to support one another in this way.

That said, China also has far too much economic risk in its dealing with the west and can't estrange itself by propping up a losing Putin.
 
Raoul said:
If this continues for another few weeks, Ukraine's terms may well wind up.

- All Russian troops out of Ukraine
- Full restoration of internationally recognized Ukrainian territory (Donbas and Crimea included)
- Neutrality and nuclear disarmament of Russia
- Denazification of Russian politics
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No chance whatsoever that Russia will give up any of their nuclear weapons.
And I don't really understand that last point.
 
Raoul said:
They still have thermobarics as well.

The likeliest WMD scenario for Putin will be to batter Kyiv & Kharkiv as they have Mariupol, then instead of fighting a losing insurgency to take the full city, launch a false flag chemical attack that allows the Russians to walk in uncontested. That's the growing danger that needs to be mitigated by the Ukrainians and NATO need to be prepared on how to react when this happens.
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Thing is, Kyiv is 10 times as big as Mariupol, so battering Kyiv is gonna be far more difficult.
 
LDUred said:
Yep, was thinking the exact same thing. Imagining that it's just 'Putin's war' has always struck me as wishful, Pollyanna thinking. Sure, there will be intellectuals who will vehemently and eloquently oppose Putin, but they will be in the minority and easy to isolate.

Your average Russian will be captive to a propaganda machine that has been churning out abject nationalist drivel for the last twenty years. We shouldn't underestimate how immersive that is and how that attitude will become entrenched during a time when Russia is at war.
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I agree, to see younger people in Moscow sucked into it is a product partly of Putin's doing for reigniting tensions in the way he has. For some people it runs a fair bit deeper than just Putin and the last 20 years.

Some of the older generations grew up during the cold war and anti western mistrust is ingrained.

In fairness a poster did point out that for a period in the 90s, there did seem to be some reconciliation and the threat of the 'big bad west' did seem to be waning from the conscience of modern Russians.

But for many who are older, or live in more rural parts out east, this attitude isn't new and their support for Putin comes from wanting a strongman who will confront the west.
 
Revan said:
Thing is, Kyiv is 10 times as big as Mariupol, so battering Kyiv is gonna be far more difficult.
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Yes, I don't think they have the horses to take the city, which is why a chemical attack may not be out of the question. That would obviously only work if it looked like they were beginning to win throughout the rest of the country, which they clearly aren't at the moment.
 
Buster15 said:
No chance whatsoever that Russia will give up any of their nuclear weapons.
And I don't really understand that last point.
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It was tongue and cheek. It will obviously never happen, but don't be surprised that if the Russians continue to lose, that the Ukrainians may attempt to retake all of their territory the Russians are currently squatting on.
 
If China enters then THAAD+Patriot absolutely needs to happen. Even if the crew names are something like Johnyo Smithenko.
 
Buster15 said:
It is a one party state.
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Kinda. Putin is certainly making it that way by suppressing opposition. It's not like in China where there's literally no attempt at democracy, but in Russia democracy is becoming more and more of a facade over time. Not only with political opponents being persecuted but with ever harsher measures for political protestors and dissenting voices.

There are multiple parties in the Duma, although United Russia makes up 3/4 of the seats. The problem is that opposition is suppressed, in state media and elsewhere. This isn't especially new in Russia, but Putin has certainly strengthened his grip on power, and is surrounded by allies who can't and won't challenge him.
 
Droid_Repairs said:
Kinda. Putin is certainly making it that way by suppressing opposition. It's not like in China where there's literally no attempt at democracy, but in Russia democracy is becoming more and more of a facade over time. Not only with political opponents being persecuted but with ever harsher measures for political protestors and dissenting voices.

There are multiple parties in the Duma, although United Russia makes up 3/4 of the seats. The problem is that opposition is suppressed, in state media and elsewhere. This isn't especially new in Russia, but Putin has certainly strengthened his grip on power, and is surrounded by allies who can't and won't challenge him.
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I was of the impression that opposing parties were largely designed to be opposing parties. In the sense that some smart people wrote down what each party was supposed to do and represent.
 
TMDaines said:
Interesting thread that covers Russian army being made up of non-Russian ethnic people to make it more palatable:

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This was the most important bit imo. If the Ukrainians can create a green corridor for Russian troops to surrender and seek assylum (whether in Ukraine or another nearby country), then that's a game changer.
 
sun_tzu said:
unless you have a drone in the area giving life targeting info?
or as you say target the handover point
or more likley send in the rape squads and drop chemical weapons on kyiv till ukraine hand them over anyway as part of the denazification process
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A drone big enough to get to Western Ukraine will easily be detected and shot down.

Anti aircraft batteries have a significant signature itself so even when its operational Ukraine will need to keep them moving around or the Russians will quickly find them.
 
From Chinese state media. Not very favorable for Putin it seems.

 
sun_tzu said:
so America shouldn get involved when china brings a rouge province to heel ...
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Hypocrisy is generally meaningless in international politics when balanced against power and strategic interests.
 
TMDaines said:
Just Putin’s war…

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There’s a nice video of people leaving en masse right after checking in with their superiors as those are all government workers that were ordered to come in.

Not that it means that they don’t, actively or passively, support the war :(
 
I was listening to someone on the radio who knows the Russian army stuff and was saying because they completely miscalculated the strength/will of the Ukrainian's - they literally sent their "Championship and League 1" equipment and left the "Premier League" stuff away which in hindsight was a mistake for them. Now they have to think about calling them out or find a way to end the war with out "losing"

Just thought it was interesting that they were so arrogant and didn't have a more suitable/close Plan B
 
Raoul said:
From Chinese state media. Not very favorable for Putin it seems.

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Nothing new there, Chinese news has been saying the same statements pretty much since the start. Peace and sovereignty should be respected.

Not as exciting as tweets about potential world war 3 though.
 
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