In other words, listen to those guys because they agree with me. Great thinking.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
In other words, listen to those guys because they agree with me. Great thinking.
Bit of a contrarian post here.
I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.
edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:
I wont post it directly because there are bodies visible from a distance at the end, but in the video you can see what looks like tracer fire coming from the apartment block on the left at 10 seconds in. I'm not siding with the Russians at all but if Ukrainian soldiers are firing from apartment blocks they have to accept there will be consequences to that. They shouldn't be taking up those positions.
edit: i cant stop it getting embedded, so spoilering it instead:
I can't be racist, I have black friends. You can easily see where the gutter Republicans get their talking points.
"We never had issue with the Ukrainian people. I have many Ukrainian friends".
Russia shouldn't have started by bombing civilian buildings, hospitals, schools, theatres. At this point most of the southern cities under siege have had their civilian populations removed be that from Russia killing them or them fleeing combat.
No point Ukraine taking the moral high ground against an enemy that will bomb anything and everything in their path.
Meanwhile in Russia the fascist march continues:
Alexander Khinshtein is the deputy secretary of the United Russia party in the State Duma. Andrei Turchak is its secratary. It holds just under 3/4 of the Duma's seats (not that it matters).
"Together with Andrei Turchak and other colleagues (Irina Pankina, Vasily Piskarev, Andrei Klishas), we prepared amendments to the Criminal Code and the Code on Administrative Offences, which expand the recently adopted norms on fakes about the use of the armed forces and for their public discrediting. We suggest bringing to responsibility for fakes (i.e. public dissemination of deliberately false information) not only about the army, but also about any government bodies, which act abroad in order to protect the interests of the RF and its citizens and to maintain the international peace and security. The same applies to the public discrediting of government agencies, or, to be more precise, the execution of their powers outside the country. These norms will affect not only those involved in the armed forces in Ukraine, but also the Rosgvardiya and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, who defend Russian interests abroad, regardless of whether they wear shoulder straps or not, must be protected from any provocation, lies, and "black hat". For example, our embassies, trade missions, and diplomatic missions."
Alexander Khinshtein is the deputy secretary of the United Russia party in the State Duma. Andrei Turchak is its secratary. It holds just under 3/4 of the Duma's seats (not that it matters).
Going back to this thread now. It is pure fascism.
Scary stuff. Reminds me of another scary bastard. Not looking forward to 2024.
Bit of a false equivalence there if you're comparing missile strikes into a city on apartment buildings vs. urban combat in a city.
I get what you mean, but I'm not really sure how you expect urban warfare to play out? Should they camp out in the streets or only stick to office buildings? Civilians interact with almost all parts of a city.
Isn't this exactly why it'll be hard for Russia to take the likes of Kyiv though. I think it's just the reality of urban warfare that Ukraine will use that advantage and Russia will end up firing on such buildings.
You'd hope the buildings are mainly evacuated but even if they are ill trained Russian soldiers will get nervous and fire on other residential buildings. In the same sense i wouldn't be surprised if they're using the humanitarian corridors for positioning either.
It’s as if Kyle Rittenhouse was a country. You can say that but then what the feck are they doing in the first place, trying to capture a foreign city?
I'm not defending the Russians in any way, just pointing out that if Ukrainian soldiers are using residential buildings as firing positions, poorly trained Russian soldiers with a nervous trigger finger will inevitably shoot at them and anything else that looks like it might contain hidden threats. It's a tactic that will contribute to civilian casualties.
Go to a pro-war rally if my country is the aggressor? No, of course I wouldn't. By being there you're showing support.
By the looks of it most of them have not been told why they are there. Kind of like their army in Ukraine.
This is true, but it all seems a rather inevitable consequence of Russia attacking cities. If Ukraine just met them on the field of battle they'd get crushed. Alternative is surrender and submission. So the rolling ball of consequence goes:
Russia attacks Ukrainian cities with an overwhelming advantage in fire power > Ukrainian soldiers resort to urban combat techniques, including hiding in high rises, to maintain a viable defence> Russia kills more civilians than it otherwise would.
Don't think it's reasonable to pick on the middle man here. Principle should remain that if you don't want Ukrainian soldiers to hide in buildings don't send tanks into their cities.
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Yeah, sadly that might be the case. I don't hold any particular grudge towards individuals there. They could plausibly make a stand and refuse, but it's easy for me to sit here and say that.
Similar feelings towards the soldiers, except many of them seem to be participating in war crimes of varying severities.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Invasions lead to urban warfare. Urban warfare means soldiers (of both sides) will be taking cover behind or inside buildings, they won't be on the streets like a marching band on parade day. Inside those buildings there might at any time be civilians as well, it's not like there's constant information sharing between civilians, defenders & attackers. It's not always done on purpose either. If the invaders use heavy artillery or air-strikes on those buildings, there will quite likely be civilian casualties as well. Defenders will claim the attackers are targeting civilians and the attackers will claim the defenders are using civilians as human shields.
The above tale is as old as time and pretty much unavoidable when urban warfare ensues. What isn't unavoidable is invading a country in the first place.
Bingo.
I hope people who used to yap on about militants in Gaza using "human shields" finally see this as well. This is how it actually happens. Some people think it's as if military basecamps are hiding under school children. In reality it's because you don't have much else to go.
People don't want to believe the powers of propaganda and state aggression. In reality, this war can easily be framed by Russians as a liberation of some sort.
I have a feeling that all that will accomplish is deepening the will of the Ukrainians.
Case in point...
Absolutely right.
You miss the most important part of this hypothetical — they are not really given a choice and are taken there under the orders of their superiors (under the assumption that they’re going to be fired if they won’t — or, at least, they won’t be given their yearly bonus).
Are those threats realistic? Probably not, but most people, especially those that aren’t openly oppose the cause, don’t dare to test those.
Can't fathom how an attrition strategy would possibly be in their benefit, but after all we are talking about the Russian high command in their infinite wisdom.
In a thread full of military ‘experts’, I really appreciate this comment
Almost parody.
"We never had issue with the Ukrainian people. I have many Ukrainian friends".
It's also much better defended. It seems that so far not many Russian artillery units have managed to get close enough to bombard the centre, and Russia may be running out of cruise missiles and the like to do the job from further away.
There can be bombers attacking from the air I guess. If done from high altitude I'm not sure how many (if any) anti-aircraft missiles the Ukrainians have that could knock down such aircraft.
I just don't understand what you think the alternative is.
Ukraine has S-300's, and it's looking like those are going to be getting reinforced soon, so... those can definitely shoot down Russian bombers.
Someone made the point today that if they could do it, they already would have done it. ie empty threat.
You don't need champions league equipment to fill up a truck's fuel tank or keep the tyres from falling apart, or to keep secure comms. They are so bad at at the basics, it would have just meant their better stuff - assuming they have any - would have been stuck in the mud and abandoned instead.
Not any more he doesn't.
"We never had issue with the Ukrainian people. I have many Ukrainian friends".
Moreover, even if those missile systems are not being brought into the country, the mere fact that it's being said that they are will have at least some deterrent effect on Russian aircraft, because the Russian pilots and their commanders won't know either way and will have to assume the threat exists.
Ok. Understood. Sometimes difficult to work out what is real and what is not.