Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Nish115 said:
Why? Our squad isn't as good as Uniteds/Spurs. Our manager isn't as experienced as theirs.

People expected Arsenal to finish 8th this season. If he gets top 6 or higher, that is a success and something to build on.

This demand for instant success is what got many clubs into positions they are in, including United. It's ridiculous.

People forget Arteta is young too, he's still learning. The club have taken the approach to back his growth also, along with the teams. People think we are miles clear of top 4, we aren't in reality. Spurs aren't far behind with a much better fixture list. It will be tight..
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Not getting 4th this season would be an underperformance from Arsenal given the current conditions. You don’t base your assessment of a 38 game season on what people were thinking 25 games ago. Should Arsenal not claim 4th given the fact their rivals have all but handed it to them it would be a massive underachievement.

Also, demand for success? Lad it’s 4th place.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Not getting 4th this season would be an underperformance from Arsenal given the current conditions. You don’t base your assessment of a 38 game season on what people were thinking 25 games ago. Should Arsenal not claim 4th given the fact their rivals have all but handed it to them it would be a massive underachievement.

Also, demand for success? Lad it’s 4th place.
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What current conditions?? How have their rivals handed it to them? Spurs are on the same/more points now than they were last season, with a better squad and better manager. So how are they handing it to us?

United have gone down a level for sure, but personally I see Spurs as the biggest threat. Besides. United have gone from a 2nd place team to a team fighting for top 4, so if anything they've just bridged the gap down to us. Again, not handing anything to us.

As long as we fight to the end, if we miss out on top 4 by a few points, then sobeit. We'd have lost to a team with more experience, a better coach, who spend money in January and a better squad. Simple as. Again, this need for black or white success is ridiculous. People are making out whoever gets top 4 this year it'll be by some record low points tally. It won't be, it'll be the same points tally as most other years.

So what if it's 4th place? The cold reality is we aren't as good as Liverpool/City/Chelsea, so yes 4th place is success for now relative. This belief that you are and should be as good as those three teams right now is what is draining United currently into just going round in circles.
 
Abraxas said:
After all the complaining it would be nice if Arsenal balls this one up as we really need them to. Win this tricky fixture and 4th is looking bleak given we're not a side that's going to be consistent.

I'm not a big fan of managers mouthing off about fixtures because it creates a ready made excuse for the players. Should do it through the proper channels.
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Agreed in a way, it'll be tough anyway. Villa are in good form and it's away, expecting a tight game.
 
Nish115 said:
Also, the irony is lost on people that if we were in Europe next year we wouldn't have this issue because the CL teams that play on Wednesday won't have to play the 12:30 KO Slot :lol:

Artetas issue is that this is the third time it's happened this season to us, when it isn't really meant to happen. If he doesn't complain, then it will just keep happening, hence why he's made a point about it. If it's a one off, you can understand as a covid clash occurrence. If he just keeps quiet then the prem i'm sure will just arrange our NLD match to be the exact same thing.

The fact that it's banned for CL matches on Wednesday to play the PL 12:30 KO Time, why is it not banned for all competitions? Arteta's in his right to question it.
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Banned? We played Villarreal on a Wednesday night. Then 12:30 Saturday vs Everton. Where is this ban you're talking about? Stop talking bollocks.
 
I'd say he is the least fun man to have a pint with in the entire planet. He seriously does look like a bit of a gowl, in fairness.
 
Samid said:
I've given you an actual example from this very season that proves there is no such 'rule'. Again, stop talking bollocks.
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What are you even talking about ffs. Read my post again:

'Also, the irony is lost on people that if we were in Europe next year we wouldn't have this issue because the CL teams that play on Wednesday won't have to play the 12:30 KO Slot :lol:'

Why are you just repeating the word bollocks. I said, WON'T HAVE TO PLAY NEXT YEAR. If I wanted to say this year, i'd have said DON'T. I am fully aware it's happened on occasion this year to teams (allbeit I had to google it a couple days ago to have a look). Doesn't mean Arteta can't question why it's happened 3 times to us so far.
 
Nish115 said:
What are you even talking about ffs. Read my post again:

Also, the irony is lost on people that if we were in Europe next year we wouldn't have this issue because the CL teams that play on Wednesday won't have to play the 12:30 KO Slot :lol:

Why are you just repeating the word bollocks. I said, WON'T HAVE TO PLAY NEXT YEAR
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This is from your article: "There are some significant changes ahead for the new season of Champions League football". That was posted in August and was meant to include this season of CL. So where was this rule change of yours when we played on Wednesday night and then Saturday 12:30 earlier in the season?

You and Lego both are getting your panties in a twist for no reason.
 
Samid said:
This is from your article: "There are some significant changes ahead for the new season of Champions League football". That was posted in August and was meant to include this season of CL. So where was this rule change of yours when we played on Wednesday night and then Saturday 12:30 earlier in the season?

You and Lego both are getting your panties in a twist for no reason.
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BT had a whole discussion the other day on it, and how they'll change it next season. This year covid impacted it. They'll be a new KO time if needed next season for CL sides.

No, we aren't. It's a thing. As I said earlier, if Covid this year meant it happens once, you can understand it. That's happened to United and Spurs this year. But 3 times isn't really reasonable.
 
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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Arsenal fans weren't either ,to be fair.
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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I'm not sure this is true anymore. Even just on this forum the majority want the squad gutted and are bemoaning the fact that a new manager won't be allowed to do that. The thing stopping a manager doing it is the board, not the fans. Conceivably we could raise 50 million from the sale of Maguire and AWB (both definitely improve the likes of Newcastle currently) but the board will see that as serious money lost on them instead of getting 50 million for two players who aren't good enough. For me that is what is holding us back from improving the team, not the attitude of the fans.

Let's say ETH or Poch is brought in and I'm sure they would have full support of a 7th place finish, from the fans, as long as its clear they are changing the squad and improving the situation in the longer term.
 
I actually think pundits like Rio, Scholes, Hargreaves and Neville are more of a issue than the fans now regarding patience in a potential club/squad reset.
 
Simon Burnton, writing the min-by-min for the Guardian, doesn't hold back :lol:

The game Mikel Arteta complained it was “not fair” for his team to play, what with also having played against Liverpool on Wednesday night. Puzzling outburst, that one. “The first thing is to protect the players and we have mentioned that many times,” he continued. “Please can we avoid the Wednesday night and the Saturday morning and travelling?” Mate, you’ve played at home midweek and then gone to Birmingham. Last week I was at a Spurs game that ended late on a Monday night and had to be in Birmingham by 10am on Tuesday morning. Do you know what? It was absolutely fine, because Birmingham isn’t very far from London. It’s not like it’s Bucharest or Bratislava. “I am not talking about Europe, I am talking about the Premier League and how we schedule the games in the Premier League,” Arteta added. “When you are in Europe it is a different story, but I am talking about the Premier League and it is very different.” Well, a bit different, the main differences being that there’s much less journey time to whinge about and a lot of the teams you have to play are less good.
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https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...0832c62ade147a#block-6234d6df8f0832c62ade147a

I mean, they shouldn't be playing the early slot after Wednesday, especially since it's the only fecking PL game of the day, so he's right that the PL are once again being douchebags for the sake of broadcasting $$$, but complaining about "traveling" :lol:
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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We aren’t nearly demanding enough as fans.
 
This lot are a much better football team than us. The ‘patterns of play’ that so many sniggered at are clear to see, the players all have high technical ability and the team maintains a shape and structure. As it stands you would say they are well placed to finish above us next season too. Some additions in the market that fit in with what they have now and they can be in the title mix.
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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With all due respect this is widely inaccurate. For starters you’re making the mistake of thinking Internet fans/opinions are the same as match going fans/opinions. You will never hear match going United fans badgering their own manager nomatter how bad it gets.

Ironically I would say Arsenal fans would be exactly the kind of fans who would badger their manager as they did with Emery. The only reason Arteta didn’t get the vitriol was because Arsenal were playing behind close doors for two seasons. If Arsenal fans were at games during that period, Arteta would have been massacred.

Arteta was criticised by their fans online constantly. And to be fair you can’t blame them, they were absolute shite for two seasons. But the board believed in Arteta and I guess now they’re getting their reward. Let’s not pretend this could be foreseen. It’s arsenal football club and they came 8th twice, there’s no dressing that up other than shocking.

And I’m not sure how low you think
United need to get before fans can show some dismay. I think though that going ten years without threatening to win a single major title yet outspending all but one club in that period is a suitable amount of ‘low’.

A large amount of United fans on here spent three years talking about rebuilds and suffering a bit for Ole. So again, you’re not correct. There were lots against it but not because they were against the idea of a rebuild but because they thought Ole was not the right man for it and they’ve all been proven right.
 
AshRK said:
I agree time should be given but big clubs want instant success. Would LVG have helped us to the next level, I doubt. The football he gave united fans was the most boring and that says something as we also had to endure Jose, Moyes and Ole.

So yes, time should be given but not always. We gave Ole time, didn't do us any good. Similarly no guarantee you giving Arteta would take you to the level Arsenal once were. It's all a risk.
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If my memory serves me right again, that manager wanted to bring in Sadio Mane before he is fired, but people in redcafe all said Mane did not have the quality to play for the club as he was only playing for Southampton. The club needed to aim higher.
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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The biggest issue is the media for me. They will never stay out of our way and let us get on with it for a little while, and by and large, it doesn’t take much for them to mount a campaign to get our manager sacked. They have done this many times. They create a horrible environment that makes it harder to get on with slow progress for everyone associated with the club.
 
He’s looking alright just now as he has a full week to prepare for every game. Once he has European football to contend with as well he’ll once again be exposed for the fraud he is.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
He’s looking alright just now as he has a full week to prepare for every game. Once he has European football to contend with as well he’ll once again be exposed for the fraud he is.
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So that’s all it takes to be considered a ‘fraud’? Have one game a week? How many tournaments have we been involved in 2022? We’ve done our best to reduce our workload by going out at the first opportunity in both domestic cups, and have played one CL ties this year. With a bigger squad than Arsenal. It’s clear as day the man knows what he’s doing.
 
Rozay said:
So that’s all it takes to be considered a ‘fraud’? Have one game a week? How many tournaments have we been involved in 2022? We’ve done our best to reduce our workload by going out at the first opportunity in both domestic cups, and have played one CL ties this year. With a bigger squad than Arsenal. It’s clear as day the man knows what he’s doing.
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Common man, people on here desperately need Arsenal to be worse than us and not overtake us as well. Leave us that bit of copium. *kneelsdownbothhandupfingerscrossedandprays* "Dear football gods of fixture congestion, let Arsenal be shit again, oh god please let Arsenal be shit again." :lol:
 
Rozay said:
So that’s all it takes to be considered a ‘fraud’? Have one game a week? How many tournaments have we been involved in 2022? We’ve done our best to reduce our workload by going out at the first opportunity in both domestic cups, and have played one CL ties this year. With a bigger squad than Arsenal. It’s clear as day the man knows what he’s doing.
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You need to remember that the majority in here claimed that Ole was better than him. That agenda lives on, even though he's took that opinion and shoved it back down their throats.

He's done an amazing job at arsenal. We should take note. He took apart their team, got rid of old and overpaid players, brought in loads of youngsters and has them winning and playing well. That is a rebuild. Not buying over the hill superstars to dig you out and hide crap performances.
 
Ludens the Red said:
With all due respect this is widely inaccurate. For starters you’re making the mistake of thinking Internet fans/opinions are the same as match going fans/opinions. You will never hear match going United fans badgering their own manager nomatter how bad it gets.

Ironically I would say Arsenal fans would be exactly the kind of fans who would badger their manager as they did with Emery. The only reason Arteta didn’t get the vitriol was because Arsenal were playing behind close doors for two seasons. If Arsenal fans were at games during that period, Arteta would have been massacred.

Arteta was criticised by their fans online constantly. And to be fair you can’t blame them, they were absolute shite for two seasons. But the board believed in Arteta and I guess now they’re getting their reward. Let’s not pretend this could be foreseen. It’s arsenal football club and they came 8th twice, there’s no dressing that up other than shocking.

And I’m not sure how low you think
United need to get before fans can show some dismay. I think though that going ten years without threatening to win a single major title yet outspending all but one club in that period is a suitable amount of ‘low’.

A large amount of United fans on here spent three years talking about rebuilds and suffering a bit for Ole. So again, you’re not correct. There were lots against it but not because they were against the idea of a rebuild but because they thought Ole was not the right man for it and they’ve all been proven right.
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For me there is a big

" we must win a title in 3 years thing" that I don't feel at Arsenal. I felt it this year too and I can see how that might influence what we do or who we sign.

I didn't even feel it at Liverpool during their big drought.
 
Somewhat interested to see their moves in the summer. They spent big this year and now, with the potential of CL football on the way, we'll see how ambitious their owners truly are.

I dont expect big fancy names though. Arteta seems quite clued up on the type of individual he wants.
 
Bebestation said:
I personally don't think United fans have the ability to let someone like Arteta improve the team like he has done; a bit over a long time.

It's obviously not top class but it has improved.

I remember how everyone was laughing at Arteta the first season and nowhere near the CL and the laughter has kind of died down a bit this year.

We have a very success heavy bunch of fans that think United is kind of bigger than it is. When things don't go right, they are the loudest to cry and the biggest to moan. They know minimal of support and feel that United owes something to them, rather than the fans owing or showing something to the club. They will say how the club has changed because success is not as important to the others or some crap.

Sometimes to come back to the top - you do really need to hit the lowest of the low and rebuild from the bottom.

And I'm personally okay with that and I will continue my support.
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Arsenal haven't done anything great. They are only getting top 4 because we have gone through a shitstorm with managers getting sacked and players downing tools and mind you they've barely scraped through.

If we sort ourselves out even half hardheartedly they'd be out of CL next season.
 
VidaRed said:
Arsenal haven't done anything great. They are only getting top 4 because we have gone through a shitstorm with managers getting sacked and players downing tools and mind you they've barely scraped through.

If we sort ourselves out even half hardheartedly they'd be out of CL next season.
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If Arsenal get top4 with points tally above 70 points then they would have gotten top4 on merit , Arteta and Arsenal would deserve credit for that but the over the top praise they are getting right now is quite premature with some claiming they can be in title mix with few additions is quite laughable chances are their Cl participation might very well be one off rather than some great rebuild which have been executed by Arsenal and Arteta which brings regular CL to Emirates .
 
Fair feck to Arteta, they are obviously doing good work this season results wise, even though I am still not quite sure team that is in fourth position with 44-31 goal difference is doing quite well. Reminds me of our Mourinho season where we finished second and many of us wanted him gone because you know the opposition was shite that season. But at least they are doing it with far less money invested so he deserves a praise.
 
He is everything Ole and Lampard could never be. He learnt from Pep and it shows.
 
gajender said:
If Arsenal get top4 with points tally above 70 points then they would have gotten top4 on merit , Arteta and Arsenal would deserve credit for that but the over the top praise they are getting right now is quite premature with some claiming they can be in title mix with few additions is quite laughable chances are their Cl participation might very well be one off rather than some great rebuild which have been executed by Arsenal and Arteta which brings regular CL to Emirates .
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I don't think we'll be in a title challenge. However out of the last 14 PL fixtures we've won 11 drawn 1 and lost 2 (the losses being City and Liverpool). If you repeat that over 38 games that's 89 points form.
 
ThierryFabregas said:
I don't think we'll be in a title challenge. However out of the last 14 PL fixtures we've won 11 drawn 1 and lost 2 (the losses being City and Liverpool). If you repeat that over 38 games that's 89 points form.
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Right? And thats with Lacazette up top and Xhaka in midfield. If we get upgrades in the cf, midfield, I'd be tempted to dump the CL and concentrate just on the PL and try and win a title.
 
ThierryFabregas said:
I don't think we'll be in a title challenge. However out of the last 14 PL fixtures we've won 11 drawn 1 and lost 2 (the losses being City and Liverpool). If you repeat that over 38 games that's 89 points form.
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Actually it would be 92 points and if you actually believe your team is capable of doing that then you would definitely be in title mix , let's see first how many points you actually finish this season with but definitely your current run is quite impressive but don't think it's sustainable and is more likely a purple patch nothing more .
 
Rozay said:
So that’s all it takes to be considered a ‘fraud’? Have one game a week? How many tournaments have we been involved in 2022? We’ve done our best to reduce our workload by going out at the first opportunity in both domestic cups, and have played one CL ties this year. With a bigger squad than Arsenal. It’s clear as day the man knows what he’s doing.
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We’ll see.
 
Dancfc said:
They themselves had the same with Cesc, Nasri, RVP etc.

The problem with such youth centric projects is they rarely work out how they're meant too on paper, as we saw with Arsenal in that era. Many don't live up to the billing and the one's that do eventually get fed up and look for a quick fix, there's already noises of Saka stalling on his new deal until he gets guarantees of the clubs vision.

It's good to have a core of young players but eventually it has to be balanced out to take the next step. As good as our glut of youngsters are, do they win the UCL without Tuchel, Silva and Mendy? I think we all know the answer to that.
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You are right, and that’s why they have to replace Xhaka and Lacazette with experienced players of better quality, example Verratti and Moreno.

It’s critical for Arsenal to keep momentum and convince young players Arsenal has high ambitions in order to make them stay.
 
He's decent but things have fallen brilliantly for him this season. Main rivals for that 4th spot in Spurs and United both had a horrendous starts to the season, sacked their managers and brought in new managers. No European football to juggle either. They've just quietly gone about taking advantage of everybody being pretty rubbish apart from City, Liverpool and to a lesser extent Chelsea. They'll definitely be happy to get CL football again (which surely they will get at this point) but ultimately it's a million miles away from seriously challenging for the league or in Europe.
 
horsechoker said:
I can see this going the way of Ole.
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Not likely. They didn't throw money at the team when they hired Arteta. They gave him the opportunity and the backing to change the culture at the club and rebuild the team with young players. They also seem to actually have a long term plan and a clear way of how Arteta wants them to play. Ole's appointment is nothing like his to be fair.
 
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