Terrible things happen in Mariupol. We have reports from multiple sources. And yet, there are no large scale protests inside Russia! Would you imagine what would happen in London if the British army was doing this today?
From this, I infer that the large majority of Russians support these actions of their government. I really feel stunned that there has been so little protest from Russians, either inside Russia or outside. Why does this happen? Do the majority of Russians consider Ukraine "a fake country" so they have the right to do whatever to it? But even if they believe that, why would anyone accept all this bombardment, the killings, the deportations? I really do not understand this.
I have asked this question before but I got no replies. Are there any Russians that can give us some perspective?
Terrible things happen in Mariupol. We have reports from multiple sources. And yet, there are no large scale protests inside Russia! Would you imagine what would happen in London if the British army was doing this today?
From this, I infer that the large majority of Russians support these actions of their government. I really feel stunned that there has been so little protest from Russians, either inside Russia or outside. Why does this happen? Do the majority of Russians consider Ukraine "a fake country" so they have the right to do whatever to it? But even if they believe that, why would anyone accept all this bombardment, the killings, the deportations? I really do not understand this.
I have asked this question before but I got no replies. Are there any Russians that can give us some perspective?
Terrible things happen in Mariupol. We have reports from multiple sources. And yet, there are no large scale protests inside Russia! Would you imagine what would happen in London if the British army was doing this today?
From this, I infer that the large majority of Russians support these actions of their government. I really feel stunned that there has been so little protest from Russians, either inside Russia or outside. Why does this happen? Do the majority of Russians consider Ukraine "a fake country" so they have the right to do whatever to it? But even if they believe that, why would anyone accept all this bombardment, the killings, the deportations? I really do not understand this.
I have asked this question before but I got no replies. Are there any Russians that can give us some perspective?
What's the difference between first hand reporting and people telling them directly?
The jury is still out. Thread here analysing it, lots of points suggesting fake. This would not be unprecedented for Russia if we remember the elaborate staged videos in the days running up to the invasion.
In the earlier weeks there were protests but I don't recall protests in Russia in the last week? Seemed to have died down.
You have to understand how severe the repression is though.
Your mistake is assuming that Russia buys Rubles with the Dollars/Euros they receive - they don't. They either build cash reserves for a scenario like the current one, or simply use those Dollars/Euros to pay for imports with it. Currently only a small amount of their oil/gas income actually gets converted to Rubles.Spending less than a minute thinking about it, I don't get why paying for Russian gas in rubles would "prop up" the ruble.
Presumably foreign states don't hold rubles and want to buy gas, while Russia wants to sell gas to get more rubles. So either 1) the foreign states use their dollars to buy gas, while Russia then sells their new dollars to buy rubles, or 2) the foreign states use their dollars to buy rubles, and then use their new rubles to buy gas.
We're currently doing 1). If we move to 2), the only thing that really changes is who buys the rubles. Non-rubles will have to be sold to buy rubles either way.
Not like that mate. The Russians can't use dollars to buy rubles because then they'll be stuck with rubles that no-one is accepting. They need other countries to buy the rublesSpending less than a minute thinking about it, I don't get why paying for Russian gas in rubles would "prop up" the ruble.
Presumably foreign states don't hold rubles and want to buy gas, while Russia wants to sell gas to get more rubles. So either 1) the foreign states use their dollars to buy gas, while Russia then sells their new dollars to buy rubles, or 2) the foreign states use their dollars to buy rubles, and then use their new rubles to buy gas.
We're currently doing 1). If we move to 2), the only thing that really changes is who buys the rubles. Non-rubles will have to be sold to buy rubles either way.
Your mistake is assuming that Russia buys Rubles with the Dollars/Euros they receive - they don't. They either build cash reserves for a scenario like the current one, or simply use those Dollars/Euros to pay for imports with it. Currently only a small amount of their oil/gas income actually gets converted to Rubles.
Not like that mate. The Russians can't use dollars to buy rubles because then they'll be stuck with rubles that no-one is accepting. They need other countries to buy the rubles
No the amount changes. Russia doesn't need to buy Dollars/Euros with the Rubles they want to get for their oil/gas. They still have big cash reserves (although partially frozen), they won't be able to import much stuff due to the sanctions, and they still accept non-Ruble payments from states they still consider to be friendly, those will get them enough foreign cash to finance the limited imports that will happen.In that case Russia will have to sell the rubles they receive to buy Dollars and Euros, 1) and 2) changes to:
- 1) Foreign states buy their gas with Dollars/Euros. Russia either keeps it, or buys imported goods.
- 2) Foreign states buy Rubles. Russia sells their Rubles to buy Dollars/Euros, theen either keeps them or buys imported goods.
If people aren't accepting Rubles, why would Russia want Rubles? Why does it matter whether it's Russia or Germany who buys the very exact same Ruble from someone? The same amount of foreign currency is sold, the same amount of Rubles is bought, the same amount of gas is exchanged.
@Dr. Dwayne here we go
I think they're at least talking about taking everything that any business has left behind that are boycotting. Not much they can do in response, turning McDonald's into Uncle Vlad's and running these planes into the ground are some of the few moves they have.It's a weird kind of theft. Obviously a lot of value for the true owners but what is Russia going to do, sell them? They're depreciating assets that require a lot of mechanical upkeep that Russia won't likely be able to maintain.
fecking grim:
No the amount changes. Russia doesn't need to buy Dollars/Euros with the Rubles they want to get for their oil/gas. They still have big cash reserves (although partially frozen), they won't be able to import much stuff due to the sanctions, and they still accept non-Ruble payments from states they still consider to be friendly, those will get them enough foreign cash to finance the limited imports that will happen.
I thought that recognizing the Russian language as official language would be the easiest request to accept, considering that many Ukrainians speak Russian anyway and/or are bilingual.
Interesting how Russian propaganda can't even repeat the comment Biden made.
Interesting how Russian propaganda can't even repeat the comment Biden made.
Same thoughts here. Based on every animal I’ve ever shot with a .30 calibre round, I would expect one delivered that close to do visible, catastrophic damage.Yeah I saw this after you mentioned it. Video is a fake imho, not least for how those men respond to being shot with, presumably, a Kalashnikov 7.62x39 round.
Same thoughts here. Based on every animal I’ve ever shot with a .30 calibre round, I would expect one delivered that close to do visible, catastrophic damage.
I think they're at least talking about taking everything that any business has left behind that are boycotting. Not much they can do in response, turning McDonald's into Uncle Vlad's and running these planes into the ground are some of the few moves they have.
I have to say selling oil and gas to Europe in rubles only is very clever. But it sounds like Anatoly Chubais fleeing is a sign that is all going to fall apart, he's supposedly the architect of the Russian economy.
Terrible things happen in Mariupol. We have reports from multiple sources. And yet, there are no large scale protests inside Russia! Would you imagine what would happen in London if the British army was doing this today?
From this, I infer that the large majority of Russians support these actions of their government. I really feel stunned that there has been so little protest from Russians, either inside Russia or outside. Why does this happen? Do the majority of Russians consider Ukraine "a fake country" so they have the right to do whatever to it? But even if they believe that, why would anyone accept all this bombardment, the killings, the deportations? I really do not understand this.
I have asked this question before but I got no replies. Are there any Russians that can give us some perspective?
Another page out of Stalin's book.
Interesting how Russian propaganda can't even repeat the comment Biden made.
That is interesting. Only complaint being that we have censored Russian media which is a kind of state-directed infantilization of the people (not intelligent enough to try comprehend propaganda for themsleves) and an incredibly illiberal policy. So that ironically it is a kind of propaganda that we have to take these statements on their own merit as we're denied access to the source.
Worth noting that we live in the era of QAnonnot intelligent enough to try comprehend propaganda for themselves
Worth noting that we live in the era of QAnon
I don't agree with (probably never will). If Russian propaganda were that powerful, how come we know all the things they've done? It isn't a non-factor but it isn't the existential threat it's made out to be either. Historians and other professionals (including journalists) need access to all perspectives and also know how to make allowance for propagandistic value (they've been trained to do it).Banning media that is entirely controlled and directed by the state (which in Russia now means all media), and which lies about pretty much everything, is in my view justified in a situation where Russia, under Putin, can now only be seen as an enemy state. Should we have allowed Nazi-run newspapers to be published in Britain during WWII?
For decades, in the name of "liberal" tolerance, we allowed the likes of "Russia Today" to pump out their lies in the UK. But now the blinkers are off and we see Putin's regime for the brutal, deceitful enemy it really is. For as long as Putin is in power, we face an existential struggle between democracy and freedom vs. brutal dictatorship. No more Mr Nice Guy.
True, but conspiracy has been around since the beginning of the internet and well before it, too (Protocols of Zion, Hitlerism). It's better to refute what is untrue rather than ban it if your interest is really in helping people see sense (if you were QAnon or pro-Kremlin before this, I doubt the ban will have moved you toward reason but probably entrenched you even further).Worth noting that we live in the era of QAnon
I don't agree with (probably never will). If Russian propaganda were that powerful, how come we know all the things they've done? It isn't a non-factor but it isn't the existential threat it's made out to be either. Historians and other professionals (including journalists) need access to all perspectives and also know how to make allowance for propagandistic value (they've been trained to do it). ...
If someone’s bleeding, you stop the bleed. This Russian propaganda bullshit is a bleed that needs to be stopped. There’s folks in Russia who believe this invasion is a good thing and that things that are happening aren’t happening because of it, despite their family in Ukraine telling them what’s going on. Hell, I had in-laws who believed Covid was a hoax because of propaganda when their own daughter was running a Covid ICU. It’s nice to have ideals, but this is a war. That’s kinda where ideals go to die.True, but conspiracy has been around since the beginning of the internet and well before it, too (Protocols of Zion, Hitlerism). It's better to refute what is untrue rather than ban it if your interest is really in helping people see sense (if you were QAnon or pro-Kremlin before this, I doubt the ban will have moved you toward reason but probably entrenched you even further).
Exactly. That shit needs to be contained.Indeed. Even now there are idiots out there claiming that the videos and images of Mariupol, a city that has been razed to the ground, are all faked and come from a specially-designed film set.
True, but conspiracy has been around since the beginning of the internet and well before it, too (Protocols of Zion, Hitlerism). It's better to refute what is untrue rather than ban it if your interest is really in helping people see sense (if you were QAnon or pro-Kremlin before this, I doubt the ban will have moved you toward reason but probably entrenched you even further).
Let me repeat my question: Should we have allowed Nazi-run newspapers to be published in Britain during WWII?
As for "Historians and other professionals (including journalists)" ... historians can have access for their look back after the dust has settled, and professionals like journalists can I'm sure still access whatever they need to. The BBC, for example, continue to monitor all Russian TV and radio.
Exactly. That shit needs to be contained.
The issue is that both of your historical examples are also great examples of things that weren't banned, and where clear and obvious attempts were made to (successfully) refute their ideas in the public sphere, and the outcome of both was genocide.
Put this invasion into perspective. It is basically akin to the Soviet-Afghan War. There remained journalistic exchange and diplomatic exchange even at the height of the Cold War when US/USSR were fighting each other by proxy on simultaneous fronts.
Personally, I want the Russian perspective as well as the Ukrainian perspective and the Western perspective and the rest of the world's perspective, too. I can understand arguments against it, but despite legitimate concerns it's not something I'm going to agree with. If the Russians were an actual, immediate, threat (war-threat) to us, I would agree. They're not, though. The only threat here is a potential nuclear war because if it goes hot then it will go nuclear as a matter of fact and all the propaganda won't matter a bit. Also, the people who swallow Russian propaganda are the same people you should be convincing of its absurdity (by pointing out the absurdity of our own propaganda, too). And these people will find a way to get that content somewhere else. All you're doing is pushing them further into individualistc silos.
If we're going to be told about Russian media by Western media, then the first thing I'm going to do is go straight to Russian media because of a healthy distrust of Western media (cultivated over a lifetime and based in their outright lies and manipulative tactics). One set of half-truths against another with the two being weighed by the self-interest of different ruling classes in different states (or different states if you don't buy the class line). It just means I have to read against the grain of Pravda instead of RT. And if that goes, then some other Russian outlet.
Third time if we include Chechnya. It's a momentous event and I'm not downplaying it, I just don't see the logic behind repeating Russian propaganda in Western media if you're going to ban Russian media because it is propaganda.The perspective is actually that this is the first time - or the 2nd time if we include the annexation of Crimea - since the end of WWII that Russia/USSR has invaded an independent European country. It's an historical watershed event that is not comparable to the Soviet-Afghan War.
