Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[GlastonSpur]

This makes it all the more clear that Russia must now be seen by the West as an enemy state - to be relentlessly undermined, squeezed and reduced in all possible ways - for as long and Putin and ultra-nationalists retain power.

It's unfortunate that the Russian people - ultra-nationalists excepted - will suffer in the process. But it is what it is, namely an existentialist fight against tyranny, brutality and deliberate, intentional mass murder.

 

[calodo2003]

 

[bosnian_red]

Devastating seeing the news in Bucha. Its not a surprise, we all know it was going to happen and it's definitely going to come out in other cities... But it's still devastating to see confirmation of it.

 

[Cheimoon]

I'm so tired nowdays. I lost contact early with multiple Ukrainian friends and family members living there, and still haven't received any contact from some of those friends. Having to accept the high chance they are dead. My wife's close friend's extended family have lost two sons (one of whom was apparently autistic but not deemed low functioning enough to keep from service) in the Russian army: young lads that probably had not even a good idea about why they were even there.

Putin and his advisers/supporters in power have succeeded in nothing but destruction of two countries with their brute authoritarian ambitions. I had intended to return eventually, but now wonder if i ever will. So many that i know that have the means have left over the last month and the trajectory of the country in even the medium terms is bleak.

Sorry to hear that man.

 

[Carolina Red]

I think he intentionally mentioned 4 of the EU non-NATO countries because technically it wouldn't be a NATO intervention and Russia won't have a reason to use Nukes.

Exactly this.

 

[calodo2003]

 

[Carolina Red]

Haha.

Yes we used to have a great army. We still got a decent military industry. It was a priority throughout the cold war. But since then we've been disarming slowly. Actually, for 8 years (06-14) we had a center-right Prime Minister who once said the defense debate irritated him and called military and defense a "special interest".

I’m actually a big fan of your country’s CV90 infantry fighting vehicle. It is a helluva machine and is in the running to replace the US fleet of Bradley’s.

 

[GlastonSpur]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...-all-the-parts-are-made-in-ukraine/ar-AAVMhxg

 

[Carolina Red]

This is excellently done

 

[sglowrider]

 

[Carolina Red]

Gearing up for a counter offensive in the South & East?

 

[sglowrider]

Gearing up for a counter offensive in the South & East?

The way the Russian (T-72s) are getting destroyed like some fireworks on the 4th, I wonder how effective this weapons transfer will be -- unless its on open fields of the East. But even then, if the NLaws don't kill you, the drones will.

 

[Carolina Red]

The way the Russian (T-72s) are getting destroyed like some fireworks on the 4th, I wonder how effective this weapons transfer will be -- unless its on open fields of the East. But even then, if the NLaws don't kill you, the drones will.

Key difference is the side that’ll be using them has actually shown knowledge of how to fight.

Tanks are always useful in a combined arms assault on fixed positions. The key their being that arms are actually combined and working together.

 

[harms]

My views have typically been harsher than most throughout this conflict. At first I was very much on the “this is Putins war, the Russian people don’t want this” mindset, but the longer it goes on without any seeming resistance in Russia, the less sympathetic I get.

Absolute respect for those like @harms who have put themselves at great personal risk to make their voices heard, but unfortunately it seems like they are the minority. At this point my ire is not just at Putin, but at all those Russians who are just accepting the situation, or who just take in the lies and propaganda being spewed without question. The propaganda excuse only goes so far - most Russians seem wilfully ignorant at this point.

True. It was weird because in the first week or two the general attitude was mostly amazement and disbelief and I genuinely haven’t seen any support for the war but now you can see that the majority had jumped on the bandwagon.

 

[harms]

I don’t get the scramble over sugar? There’s ladies there grabbing multiple bags. What are they making??

It’s simply irrational panic. People have seen/heard that there’s going to be a shortage of sugar, went in to buy it in advance, created said shortage, induced even more panic, rinse & repeat.

 

[harms]

A guy was detained for holding up a poster that said “stop fascism” for discrediting actions of the Russian army. Russian forces are supposedly fighting the mythical “nazis” in Ukraine yet they know full well that if a guy wants to stop fascism, he’s talking about them.

 

[dal]

Unimaginable.

 

[sglowrider]

True. It was weird because in the first week or two the general attitude was mostly amazement and disbelief and I genuinely haven’t seen any support for the war but now you can see that the majority had jumped on the bandwagon.

So basically this is an accurate representation:

 

[LDUred]

Intolerable scenes of genocide emerging in the last 24 hours.

Putin's objective seems pretty simple: to completely and utterly destroy the Ukraine by all means necessary.

He will not stop until he is forced to.

 

[harms]

So basically this is an accurate representation:

People that are against the war would probably be wary of saying that out loud to a camera (as it can get you up to 15 years in prison), but yeah, as for the majority’s opinion those answers look more or less representative.

My granddad broke my heart a bit with the same nonsense the other day — and he was always a smart one. You’d expect someone who had lived through the WW2 to be extra cautious towards any military conflict but his mind is already gone

 

[Beans]

I really hope they have correctly followed the Geneva Convention protocols in poisoning occupiers.

I take it that's illegal.

Surely no judge would actually punish someone in Ukraine for poisoning an invader, though. You'd probably get a medal in WWII for poisoning Nazis.

 

[sglowrider]

People that are against the war would probably be wary of saying that out loud to a camera (as it can get you up to 15 years in prison), but yeah, as for the majority’s opinion those answers look more or less representative.

My granddad broke my heart a bit with the same nonsense the other day — and he was always a smart one. You’d expect someone who had lived through the WW2 to be extra cautious towards any military conflict but his mind is already gone

Sad. Its fecked up when the truth is there for everyone to see and yet...

At this rate, you better hope it doesn't escalate to like the Mao days during the Cultural Revolution -- where kids were reporting to the authorities on their own parents. Otherwise you are having it easy compared to those guys!!

 

[Water Melon]

So basically this is an accurate representation:

Brainwashed people, several generations who do not recognize Ukraine as a sovereign state. For these walking zombies, Ukranians are not even a proper nation that has a right to exist. Historical arrogance combined with propaganda are an extremely powerful mental poison.

 

[sglowrider]

Brainwashed people, several generations who do not recognize Ukraine as a sovereign state, nation with basocally no right to exist. Historical arrogance combined with propaganda are an extremely powerful mental poison.

Its a scary thing. What next, sub-humanising of Ukrainians? Calling them cockroaches next to justify using chemical weapons? Part of the cleansing process.

 

[Water Melon]

Its a scary thing. What next, sub-humanising of Ukrainians? Calling them cockroaches next to justify using chemical weapons? Part of the cleansing process.

A real shame, isn't it? Ukranian army need tanks to regain east and south. The longer this drags, the deeper the humaniatrian crisis will be. Sanctions will start to be felt in 3-6 months. By this time, we could have no cities and villages left in one third of Ukraine.

 

[Walrus]

Yes, great solution to the needless suffering Putin has already unleashed...a further war of destruction and extermination against an entire nation.

it never takes long for conflicts to bring out the real maniacs and wannabe genocidal strongmen.

Take as much moral high ground as you want. Realistically, the ONLY reason Russia hasnt been pounded into submission over their continued aggression is their nuclear arsenal - which they continue to overtly threaten the west with.

Russia is a problem and the world would be better off without Russia in its current form. That doesn’t mean every Russian person should be killed, but the country itself is a problem for the world right now, basically a giant sized North Korea with nukes.

The Carthage reference was mildly tongue in cheek, but I do not believe that peaceful coexistence with Russia is possible any more. At best it will be another Cold War. Their actions are also forcing other global nations to “pick a side”, and the world feels like it is in a very dangerous and precarious position right now.

 

[sglowrider]

A real shame, isn't it? Ukranian army need tanks to regain east and south. The longer this drags, the deeper the humaniatrian crisis will be. Sanctions will start to be felt in 3-6 months. By this time, we could have no cities and villages left in one third of Ukraine.

Based on Harms and that video of the general sentiments of the Russian public, I doubt if any compromise can be reached any time soon.

 

[Water Melon]

Based on Harms and that video of the general sentiments of the Russian public, I doubt if any compromise can be reached any time soon.

There will be no compromise, no peace between these two nations for generations/centuries. The main aim should be to help Ukranian army as much as possible.

 

[sglowrider]

There will be no compromise, no peace between these two nations for generations/centuries. The main aim should be to help Ukranian army as much as possible.

Yeap. I am sure this will be the last time Russia will try and invade Ukraine on this scale again. It will be asymmetric warfare the next time after some 'agreement' is reached.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Ah now, y’all have one of the best stories in the history of peacekeeping missions at Jadotville. That said, the Irish government did bundle how the aftermath was handled.

That wasnt our finest moment.
Just finished reading that book recently.

 

[sglowrider]

That wasnt our finest moment.
Just finished reading that book recently.

Big difference between book and the movie?

 

[harms]

Sad. Its fecked up when the truth is there for everyone to see and yet...

That’s the issue — it’s not. There aren’t any TV, radio or newspapers with an alternative opinion left in Russia — they were all eliminated one way or another. Facebook is banned, Instagram is banned, Twitter doesn’t work. They’ve started to ban popular VPN services as well.

You need to actively seek real information to get it. You can’t simply stumble upon it unless someone sends it to you directly. And to avoid government restrictions you need to be at least somewhat technically savvy — I won’t expect many to set up their own VPN server like I did but even getting VPN in the first place is already not the most obvious move. I don’t think that my mom would’ve done it if I wouldn’t set it up for her, for example.

 

[spiriticon]

So basically this is an accurate representation:

Those who are against the war are unlikely to be giving interviews in the middle of the street because of the hatchet men. Or they probably already left the country.

But that said there are definitely a lot of pro war people, all of whom who deserve the rotten economy that's coming.

 

[Pintu]

 

[sglowrider]

That’s the issue — it’s not. There aren’t any TV, radio or newspapers with an alternative opinion left in Russia — they were all eliminated one way or another. Facebook is banned, Instagram is banned, Twitter doesn’t work. They’ve started to ban popular VPN services as well.

You need to actively seek real information to get it. You can’t simply stumble upon it unless someone sends it to you directly. And to avoid government restrictions you need to be at least somewhat technically savvy — I won’t expect many to set up their own VPN server like I did but even getting VPN in the first place is already not the most obvious move. I don’t think that my mom would’ve done it if I wouldn’t set it up for her, for example.

So you have dragged your mum into becoming an informational terrorist now eh!!

 

[Walrus]

That’s the issue — it’s not. There aren’t any TV, radio or newspapers with an alternative opinion left in Russia — they were all eliminated one way or another. Facebook is banned, Instagram is banned, Twitter doesn’t work. They’ve started to ban popular VPN services as well.

You need to actively seek real information to get it. You can’t simply stumble upon it unless someone sends it to you directly. And to avoid government restrictions you need to be at least somewhat technically savvy — I won’t expect many to set up their own VPN server like I did but even getting VPN in the first place is already not the most obvious move. I don’t think that my mom would’ve done it if I wouldn’t set it up for her, for example.

I have been quite critical of the Russian people in my last few posts harms. I would genuinely like to know though;

• Do you think the average Russian has an interest in finding alternative sources of information?
• Do they believe that the state news/information sources are accurate?
• If everyone in Russia had access to multiple news platforms and could see 'the truth', what would be the result? Apathy or revolution? (Or something in between).

I fear I am an example of how Western sentiment is shifting from "This is Putin's war, the Russian people are innocent" to "feck the lot of them". The crimes and atrocities being committed by Russian troops. The stories of people calling back to their relatives in Russia only to be disbelieved.... it starts to paint a picture that the average Russian either supports what is happening, or is at least indifferent enough to not really give a shit. We are fast reaching points of no-return, where I dont think there can be any peaceful coexistence with Russia in its current form.

 

[horsechoker]

I fear I am an example of how Western sentiment is shifting from "This is Putin's war, the Russian people are innocent" to "feck the lot of them". The crimes and atrocities being committed by Russian troops. The stories of people calling back to their relatives in Russia only to be disbelieved.... it starts to paint a picture that the average Russian either supports what is happening, or is at least indifferent enough to not really give a shit. We are fast reaching points of no-return, where I dont think there can be any peaceful coexistence with Russia in its current form.

Won't the sanctions start to bite? We'll see if they still support the war. This is in top of what seems to be a culture 9f fear against speaking out and years of propaganda.

 

[harms]

I have been quite critical of the Russian people in my last few posts harms. I would genuinely like to know though;

• Do you think the average Russian has an interest in finding alternative sources of information?
• Do they believe that the state news/information sources are accurate?
• If everyone in Russia had access to multiple news platforms and could see 'the truth', what would be the result? Apathy or revolution? (Or something in between).

I fear I am an example of how Western sentiment is shifting from "This is Putin's war, the Russian people are innocent" to "feck the lot of them". The crimes and atrocities being committed by Russian troops. The stories of people calling back to their relatives in Russia only to be disbelieved.... it starts to paint a picture that the average Russian either supports what is happening, or is at least indifferent enough to not really give a shit. We are fast reaching points of no-return, where I dont think there can be any peaceful coexistence with Russia in its current form.

• Nope
• Yeah
• It’s an interesting point that is impossible to prove, really. I’m pretty sure that we wouldn’t have been here if free press wasn’t eliminated by Putin in a systemic fashion over the past 2 decades. If you somehow magically return access to other opinions to all of Russians… do you return the access technically? Or do you somehow convince everyone to watch the alternative version as well?

Russia has a huge collective feeling of historical ressentiment that Putin had been nurturing throughout his entire rule — the idea that Russia had been robbed of its superpower status by outside forces. There’s a complete lack of postcolonial awareness of our shared collective past. Russia hadn’t really worked out the trauma of WW2, instead sublimating all that energy into patriotic sentiment. It hasn’t really resolved the internal trauma of Stalin’s repressions, keeping alive the idea that huge goals can justify any potential losses, including human life.

I do think that Putin’s regime is doomed now from a historical perspective — but the eventual public disillusionment will come from the economical collapse, not from a sudden ethical understanding of Russia’s crimes in Ukraine. And even though the regime doesn’t have an option of coming back from this in my opinion, it has enough brute force to theoretically hold on for years.

 

[harms]

There’s also some psychological adaptation/defensive mechanism — it’s not a coincidence that the public support had only appeared after a couple of weeks after the initial invasion, after the initial shock had passed. It’s easier for people to believe in the mythical nazis than to understand their collective responsibility for what’s happening now — and to understand that your country and you by proxy are the Nazi Germany of the XXIth century. Especially when everything they hear from every TV, radio etc. supports that picture of Russia as this martyr that fights the collective evil from abroad instead of the other way around.

@Walrus

 

[golden_blunder]

It’s simply irrational panic. People have seen/heard that there’s going to be a shortage of sugar, went in to buy it in advance, created said shortage, induced even more panic, rinse & repeat.

Yeah I suppose we all panicked over bog roll here when the pandemic started.
sugar in huge bags though confuses me