Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Pexbo said:
Cool story and everything but none of “The Squad” are radical left or even close to it. They’re all centrists by anything other than the American Overton window so applying political theory that is based on the traditional Left/Right spectrum is beyond daft. They’re all a million miles away from Communists.
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Fine, but then I haven't said that they are radical left (in the sense of being as extreme as the alt-right).
 
GlastonSpur said:
Fine, but then I haven't said that they are radical left (in the sense of being as extreme as the alt-right).
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No but your post is surely on the assumption that they are.

Just because they are the furthest left in American politics doesn’t mean they are at the extreme of the left side of the horse shoe. The horseshoe represents the entire political spectrum of which they are fairly close to the centre whereas the American right is fairly close to the extreme right.

So if you’re applying generic political theory it’s daft to suggest the squad are anywhere near the left horseshoe position that fringe republicans are taking up on the right.
 
Raoul said:
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This is a couple of weeks old, maybe even a month, as the first comments on the tweet also point out. I don't think we should be posting everything from twitter without at least checking if it's true or sill applies.

Considering how old this is and that there is even less voices of dissent in Russia and propaganda is more and more aggressive, I don't think that Putin is under any pressure, as the tweet is supposed to imply.
 
Simbo said:
I've seen a suggestion that it could be because of extensive court battles and legal costs expected as a result of such an action. Seizing yachts for example could prove more costly in the long run if they can't prove without doubt a certain Oligarch has a direct connection to the events unfolding in Ukraine.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/09/rus...his-is-what-happens-after-theyre-seized-.html

I've not seen what is in the bill though, it is completely common practise in the US for unrelated things to be attached on to bills that stop certain people voting for it just so it can be hung over their head for years "look everyone, they didn't vote for this".
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They are against sanctions generally speaking due to the reasons you listed, unexpected long-term ramifications, and in other cases where they mostly end up hurting the common people and not the elite they were targeted at.

But that was mostly a symbolic bill anyway so it’s not worth getting fussed over.
 
Simbo said:
Have you looked into it? I'd bet my hat there is rational reasoning.
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American media has been asleep, but best I’ve seen is suggestion that they want a food aid policy for those countries likely to be affected by lack of Ukrainian harvest. Doesn’t add up.
 
TMDaines said:
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Russia seems to slowly lose all goodwill that's ledt for them in the world.

Meanwhile Germany is working on another three way tank deal with Czech - they could send their T-72 to Ukraine, which could be immediately used - and backfills Czech's army with tanks from German reserves/industry storage, but presumably not with MBT but it will likely be stuff lik the Marder IFV.

 
GlastonSpur said:
It's a correct theory in my view. Both the radical right and left don't really want or believe in democracy - what they want is an authoritarian government that will rule by decree in ways that favour their prejudices. This is why it's always essential to hold together the centre ground - ranging from centre-left to centre-right - as a political constituency. Otherwise ....

“Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity …”

The Second Coming, by W. B. Yeats
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Love that piece of verse, so many ways to keep understanding it.
On your other poking though, when you talk about the ‘radical’ Left do you really include someone like AOC in that? I get that that is the insult thrown at her by the American right, but if she was a UK MP I doubt she’d be considered in any way radical.
 
Frosty said:
How long ago did he do that? And why? Completely missed that one.
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He did it yesterday. By recognizing Kosovo he somehow thought that he would give validity to the regions he wants to break away in the Ukraine.
 
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I don't forsee how Russia can escalate this at all really, the constant steady talk of escalation in the east ever since their Northern colapse just comes across as clickbait at this point.

Full mobilisation? Of who? Equipped with what? Ukraine has a surplus right now, the luxury of rotating reservists and turning away new recruits.
 
Some poignant thoughts from this guy, inside Mariupol steel plant.

 
Pexbo said:
No but your post is surely on the assumption that they are.

Just because they are the furthest left in American politics doesn’t mean they are at the extreme of the left side of the horse shoe. The horseshoe represents the entire political spectrum of which they are fairly close to the centre whereas the American right is fairly close to the extreme right.

So if you’re applying generic political theory it’s daft to suggest the squad are anywhere near the left horseshoe position that fringe republicans are taking up on the right.
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No, my post was about the horseshoe theory of politics that was referenced. I didn't mention "The Squad", whom I don't see as being far left.

The far left are those who subscribe to communism or a variety of other Marxist-Leninist-Maoist thinking. But even amongst the 'soft left' there are more than a few who essentially look to undermine or distract from support for Ukraine by engaging in endless what-about-ism (what about the Palestinians, what about Ethiopia etc) and/or by trying to cast NATO as more or less morally equivalent to Russia.
 
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NicolaSacco said:
Love that piece of verse, so many ways to keep understanding it.
On your other poking though, when you talk about the ‘radical’ Left do you really include someone like AOC in that? I get that that is the insult thrown at her by the American right, but if she was a UK MP I doubt she’d be considered in any way radical.
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No, I don't include AOC and 'the squad' in it. My post was about the horse-shoe theory of politics that was mentioned.
 
GlastonSpur said:
No, my post was about the horseshoe theory of politics that was referenced. I didn't mention "The Squad", whom I don't see as being far left.

The far left are those who subscribe to communism or a variety of other Marxist-Leninist thinking. But even amongst the 'soft left' there are more than a few who essentially look to undermine or distract from support for Ukraine by engaging in endless what-about-ism (what about the Palestinians, what about Ethiopia etc) and/or by trying to cast NATO as more or less morally equivalent to Russia.
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Sorry I didn’t realise you were removing the house shoe theory from the context of the discussion and posting only about that concept.
 
Simbo said:
I don't forsee how Russia can escalate this at all really, the constant steady talk of escalation in the east ever since their Northern colapse just comes across as clickbait at this point.

Full mobilisation? Of who? Equipped with what? Ukraine has a surplus right now, the luxury of rotating reservists and turning away new recruits.
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Well (and even if we assume that nuclear escalation won't happen), Russia can escalate by formally declaring war on Ukraine, which will, amongst other things, allow Putin to conscript additional large numbers of Russians into the military.
 
Simbo said:
I don't forsee how Russia can escalate this at all really, the constant steady talk of escalation in the east ever since their Northern colapse just comes across as clickbait at this point.

Full mobilisation? Of who? Equipped with what? Ukraine has a surplus right now, the luxury of rotating reservists and turning away new recruits.
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I think they mean tactical nukes.
 
groovyalbert said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

Germany essentially agrees to pay for Russian gas in rubles. Essentially giving EU sanctions and Ukraine the middle finger.

This is exactly what Putin wanted and expected to happen. Pathetic.
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Question for our German posters: can the German government do something about a private company doing this? And if so, what are the chances that they will?
 
The horseshoe theory is such bs, no idea why some people buy into it. It's like saying giraffes and dogs both have legs and mouths, so they're pretty much the same. Really lazy.
 
Cheimoon said:
Question for our German posters: can the German government do something about a private company doing this? And if so, what are the chances that they will?
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As I understood the payments are done in Euro to Gazprombank in Switzerland. This is absolutely in line with the sanctions.

The interesting point seems to be that Gazprombank converts this into rubles and if the successful conversion is needed to consider the bill paid. It sounds like that's necessary and that might be against sanctions, but in the end we are talking about something a bank in Switzerland does, which isn't even part of the EU.

Not much leverage for the German state to do anything about this, sounds more like a topic for the Suisse.

maniak said:
The horseshoe theory is such bs, no idea why some people buy into it. It's like saying giraffes and dogs both have legs and mouths, so they're pretty much the same. Really lazy.
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In the end it comes down to "radical idiots are idiots, no matter which ideology they follow"
 
maniak said:
The horseshoe theory is such bs, no idea why some people buy into it. It's like saying giraffes and dogs both have legs and mouths, so they're pretty much the same. Really lazy.
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It isn't BS when it comes to the threat to democracy: both extremes want to see authoritarian government that rules by decrees that pander to their desires. It doesn't matter if these desire vary according to which set of extremists we're talking about, because the key thing they share is an opposition to democratic government.
 
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