Sorry but I don't have to acknowledge that, because it is not correct.
F1 2022 Season
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Sorry but I don't have to acknowledge that, because it is not correct.
No I dont agree, all teams worked to the same rules and spec's
So what if it took other teams 8 years to catch up, well with the FIA's help.
I really dont get the belittling of anybody that wins world titles.
Exactly. The 2019 and 2020 seasons were so boring and one-sided and it was those processions that finally forced the FIA to make the rake changes in 2021 that helped Red Bull catch up. At the same time as developing the new limits on wind tunnel time and budget caps.
Mercedes got a massive jump with their engine in 2013 and then had a period with no wind tunnel or spending restrictions. Now of course it's totally different so teams should be able to catch Red Bull back up, unless they're incompetent.
They're alll working towards the same rules, why couldn't the other teams catch up in 8 years? sounds like sour grapes tbh.
They DID get an early advantage with the engine - that's fair to say, but no reason why the others couldn't get it done.
Heck even Ferrari had an illegal engine and still couldn't win the titlethey were just better, simple.
Why didn't other teams catch the Brabham fan car?
Williams active suspension?
Benetton traction control?
McLaren's dodgy fuel?
The FIA's job is to create a level playing field and they are usually quick to introduce rules to reign in dominant cars, but Mercedes had 8 years before they did anything.
They're alll working towards the same rules, why couldn't the other teams catch up in 8 years? sounds like sour grapes tbh.
They DID get an early advantage with the engine - that's fair to say, but no reason why the others couldn't get it done.
Heck even Ferrari had an illegal engine and still couldn't win the title
To be fair there was a token system for the engines and it limited development so Merc always had the advantage and the others simply couldn’t catch up. Customer teams didn’t even have the same modes for a while.
Usually rules are changed but F1 had an ownership change and were focused on introducing the cost cap plus Covid delayed the reg changes.
I’m not contributing to the argument one way or another but it was factual and everyone knew this, the teams said so and everyone knew Merc would always win that era. The focus were the rule changes and cost cap the past few years.
What advantage did Mercedes have that was akin to any of those? they didn't use anything 'trick' apart from that adjustable steering which was banned after a year.
That's a fair point.
In recent years with the wind tunnel limitation and budget caps, it's certainly made it harder also.
It just makes me laugh that people try to downplay Hamilton's achievments, when all of f1 history has pretty much a similar story.
What advantage did Ferrari have in the early 2000s, aside from just being better?
Or Lotus in the 70s?
The point is that whatever the reason, throughout F1 history one team has gained an advantage over the rest and gone on to enjoy a period of dominance. The FIA has always stepped in after a couple of years and changed the rules to level the playing field again. The fact is with Mercedes they didn't and left it 8 years before doing anything, leading to the longest period of domination by a manufacturer in the history of the sport.
The fact that they get paid more than any other team regardless of where they finish in the constructors championship.
Schumacher had his own tyres made by Bridgestone to purposely suit his car for a start
Compare that to Michelin who had more customers and couldn't specialise, that was a farce in itself.
Obviously some teams just nail the regulations better, which is what Mercedes managed. The big difference was their advantage in acing a very complex power unit, which was costly and complicated for others to catch up on.
Now the 4 manufacturers are very equal.
Even if their budgets aren'tSchumacher had his own tyres made by Bridgestone to purposely suit his car for a start
Compare that to Michelin who had more customers and couldn't specialise, that was a farce in itself.
Obviously some teams just nail the regulations better, which is what Mercedes managed. The big difference was their advantage in acing a very complex power unit, which was costly and complicated for others to catch up on.
Now the 4 manufacturers are very equal.
The FIA made plenty of rule changes to try to curtail Mercedes dominance, they just weren't very good. I remember everyone saying the redesign in 2017 was going to completely neutralise Mercedes' dominance, but they innovated and looked stronger than ever.
As another poster mentioned, they gave RB a huge advantage in 2021 by banning DAS which made RB significantly better on high downforce corners.
Ferrari had huge (even more than now) influence behind the scenes. There were numerous times competitors came up with innovation that made them genuinely fast within the rules, where Ferrari would force the FIA to change the rules ASAP (rather than the previous precedent of waiting until the end of the season), for a lame reason like 'cars would have to spend a lot of money copying the innovation'.
Be interesting to see where they've overspent and how they respond. There's claims it was "only" 1 million and that it was down to catering and sick leave but don't know how accurate they are.
My guess:
"We are confident that we have fully complied with the rules, as they have been laid out. We shall be consulting legal council to robustly defend our submission, which we believe was clear and correct.
"We think it is a shame that certain teams have, without cause or evidence, been pressuring decision makers of our wrongdoing. This is wrong, and we need to ensure that this will not happen again".
I mean it's clearly down to Lewis only eating caviar whenever he visits the RB pit.
What difference does it make what area the overspend is? I keep seeing the defence of "oh well it was only catering", and? It's a budget, you balance the budget across all areas because otherwise.......it's not a budget.
9 teams did it, 1 didn't.
9 teams did it, 1 didn't.
Try to tell a judge that you were only half a pint over the limit. You exceed limits set you deserve to be punished. If they don't then they might as well scrap the cap now.
100% agree
So much for the $10m Toto fantasy then.
Look forward to some of his sockpuppets explaining how a <$1m overspend is actually the equivalent of knocking an extra second off on the track.
Look forward to some of his sockpuppets explaining how a <$1m overspend is actually the equivalent of knocking an extra second off on the track.
it was only light treason.
Context matters, this is f1 though and a 1mm gap in your wing too big will get you dq. Then the cost cap should be the same.
And yet the rules have been defined for all season and only now do people have a problem with there being a difference between a minor spend and a major spend.
Exactly, what is the pint of rules if not adhered too.
Points drop were noted for both Minor and Major breaches. The only difference really was that a Major breach means a season ban while the Minor breach is a one race ban.
How dare Red Bull over spend on *checks notes* catering and paying ill employees.
I guess they must have dominated due to their drivers being so well fed.
It doesn't matter. This is a sport where a 1mm wing size will get you DQ'd. To suggest an extra $1m is neither here nor there is laughable, especially considering how close the championship was in the end. The car should be deemed illegal and that should be the end of it. Getting away with this season should be a bonus for them.
It won't be though, it'll be a fine and some reductions in wind tunnel and budget for next season because its the FIA.
Do you understand how a budget works? If other teams have the same catering and sick pay and kept under budget that means they had $1m less to spend on other things.
I posted the rules on this thread before the race weekend, you've slightly simplified them there...
According to the storm in a tea cup brigade a rule is a rule and we must throw all Red Bulls out the competition.
Coming even from a non-Mercedes/Ferrari fan, this is getting more and more ludicrous.
Firstly F1 got cars to do a ridiculous two lap procession behind the safety car, giving half points to Max for a race that never was. Then the race director (put nicely) completely 'misinterpreted' the rules, and gifted RB the drivers title on the final race of last year. Now we find out the RB were the only car to break the spending rules last year.
This will also have had an impact on the 2022 season. Perhaps a complete coincidence, but they delayed their official statement on the 2021 season until after Japan, and suddenly announced Max had won the 2022 drivers title at the end by using an interpretation of the rules that none of the drivers or media even understood (which was against the spirit of the rule-change). Ahead of likely pressure from Ferrari to punish them for this season too.
It also sounds like RB won't meet the cap this year. I doubt most will to be fair, but RB have been the most vocal that it's impossible to do so, whilst poaching technical experts with higher salaries and introducing more upgrades, the the other top teams can't match.
It all feels like RB keep taking advantage and the FIA keep messing up and then protect RB to protect their own reputation.
Anything but a strong disincentive to RB is going to make the budget cap and F1 even more of a farce than it already is.
Firstly F1 got cars to do a ridiculous two lap procession behind the safety car, giving half points to Max for a race that never was. Then the race director (put nicely) completely 'misinterpreted' the rules, and gifted RB the drivers title on the final race of last year. Now we find out the RB were the only car to break the spending rules last year.
This will also have had an impact on the 2022 season. Perhaps a complete coincidence, but they delayed their official statement on the 2021 season until after Japan, and suddenly announced Max had won the 2022 drivers title at the end by using an interpretation of the rules that none of the drivers or media even understood (which was against the spirit of the rule-change). Ahead of likely pressure from Ferrari to punish them for this season too.
It also sounds like RB won't meet the cap this year. I doubt most will to be fair, but RB have been the most vocal that it's impossible to do so, whilst poaching technical experts with higher salaries and introducing more upgrades, the the other top teams can't match.
It all feels like RB keep taking advantage and the FIA keep messing up and then protect RB to protect their own reputation.
Anything but a strong disincentive to RB is going to make the budget cap and F1 even more of a farce than it already is.
They should lose points for last year. Which means they lose the drivers championship.
Calm down deary, you're getting yourself upset over nothing, the rules have been clear since the start, they won't be getting executed like your wish.
Red Bulls being kicked out would benefit my favourite driver, would move him up 2 positions but I've not allowed myself to get so wound up by Toto.
Rules aren't made on should, any (wealthy) team could have done exactly the same
Totally agree with this.
But they didn't. Other teams let technical staff go and Red Bull gleefully signed them up.
I'm not upset over anything nor am I using such pathetic condescending terminology. None of this affects my life at all. You're making idiotic statements, getting called out then using the highly advanced "lol, I hooked you there didn't I, so ez" strategy.Calm down deary, you're getting yourself upset over nothing, the rules have been clear since the start, they won't be getting executed like your wish.
Red Bulls being kicked out would benefit my favourite driver, would move him up 2 positions but I've not allowed myself to get so wound up by Toto.
It doesn't matter. The rules are that a minor overspend is punishable by a reprimand, and/or a fine, and/or by reductions in future cost caps and wind tunnel time. Points deductions in minor overspend cases are supposed to be where teams have been fraudulent or deliberately deceptive.
So the FIA will be following the rules by the letter when they slap Red Bull with a fine and reduce their budget a bit for next season. Same as they followed the rules to the letter after Brazil qualifying last year. The teams all signed off on these financial rules and the penalties for them.
My point is that's their choice, unless the FIA made the punishment harsher then I'm surprised more teams haven't taken advantage of it (assuming the worst of RB and they did take advantage and are faking the "I'm innocent" act).
It's almost like diving in football, if you aren't going to get punished then why stop.