F1 2022 Season

Disclaimer - I am no Hamilton fan.

But now we have the rules ignored last race of last season to gift wrap the title and now this proves they cheated on top of that?
Come on you buggers.
How can that title stand?

Ludicrous.
 
dinostar77 said:
Marseille were stripped of the european cup. Lance armstrong stripped of his multiple titles. Ben johnson stripped of his olympic 100m gold medal.

The standards are there in other sports, have the FIA got the balls to protect the integrity of the sport? Have they feck.
Click to expand...
The British relay team were stripped of their medals even though only one of them tested positive.
 
The Cat said:
Disclaimer - I am no Hamilton fan.

But now we have the rules ignored last race of last season to gift wrap the title and now this proves they cheated on top of that?
Come on you buggers.
How can that title stand?

Ludicrous.
Click to expand...
Unfortunely it will. FIA are corrupt and dirty. Hamilton last season had a rear wing that was 0.2mm too wide in qually so was disqualified and sent to the back of the grid.

RedBull commit financial fraud and will get away with a slap on the wrist.

So fecking wrong.
 


Ross Brawn "if you fraudently breach financial regulations you lose your championship".

The fecking managing director of F1 said that. Penalty is simple....
 
The Cat said:
Disclaimer - I am no Hamilton fan.

But now we have the rules ignored last race of last season to gift wrap the title and now this proves they cheated on top of that?
Come on you buggers.
How can that title stand?

Ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
dinostar77 said:
Unfortunely it will. FIA are corrupt and dirty. Hamilton last season had a rear wing that was 0.2mm too wide in qually so was disqualified and sent to the back of the grid.

RedBull commit financial fraud and will get away with a slap on the wrist.

So fecking wrong.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
phelans shorts said:
Of course they went over in catering, championship parties aren’t cheap. You’re not getting Prosecco at a big do like that.
Click to expand...

not to mention the cartier watches and holiday homes for masi.
 
dinostar77 said:


Ross Brawn "if you fraudently breach financial regulations you lose your championship".

The fecking managing director of F1 said that. Penalty is simple....
Click to expand...

Key word being a "fraudulent" breach. It's one of the factors which is to be decided by the Cost Cap Administration panel?!

IMO we will see docked points for the WCC
 
Imagine the uproar if it turns out they've gone over by 50p.

They needed to release the actual numbers otherwise they've just lit the touch paper and walked away. "Fraud", come on now.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I have only just seen Pierre Gasly narrowly escape a collision with a recovery vehicle.
Shocking is all I can say, red flag or not , that crane should not have been on the track, while car were still on it.
Click to expand...
Evening. If you have a look on twitter you will see it was on track way before Gasly went past it. There are screenshots from the onboards of an Aston Martin and a McLaren that show the crane / tractor driving on the track. The Gasly blame is a smoke screen. At least 4 other cars drove past that crane in horrendous conditions. All it took is one of them to bin it and it could have been horrendous.
 
mitChley said:
Imagine the uproar if it turns out they've gone over by 50p.

They needed to release the actual numbers otherwise they've just lit the touch paper and walked away. "Fraud", come on now.
Click to expand...

the fact they haven’t published the amount leads me to believe that it’s probably not an insignificant amount. fair play to them though, have themselves another week or so to make the announcement and still bollocksed it up.
 
If they could somehow take the championship off Max without awarding it to Lewis then.. well… then I’d be very entertained.
 
rimaldo said:
the fact they haven’t published the amount leads me to believe that it’s probably not an insignificant amount. fair play to them though, have themselves another week or so to make the announcement and still bollocksed it up.
Click to expand...

Could be, god knows, FIA is really a joke. Imagine sitting there thinking "Do you think anyone would want to know where the overspend is, or what it was on? Neeeh noone is that invested".
 
rpitroda said:
Depending how egregious it is, I could see a reasonable punishment being a reduction in future cap space and limited wind tunnel time, for example. But who knows.
Click to expand...

Yeh this is exactly what it will be. Which is also what it should be. Assuming we're talking a breach of $1m maximum.

If it's very marginally over, i.e. catering budget levels, then probably just a fine and reprimand.
 
avgp_1 said:
Key word being a "fraudulent" breach. It's one of the factors which is to be decided by the Cost Cap Administration panel?!

IMO we will see docked points for the WCC
Click to expand...
If they have put in a costing that doesn't add up that fraud. It's simply the definition of what fraud is.
 
Buster15 said:
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...ns-formula-1-cost-cap-as-fia-mulls-punishment

Red Bull say that they are 'surprised and disappointed' with the findings'.
I can understand that they would be disappointed...at being found out.
But for such a professional business, how can they claim to be surprised.
Click to expand...
Presumably because they thought whatever they were spending on did not count towards the cost cap

If thats true then logically they will probably have carried on accounting in the same way this year as well
 
Fully Fledged said:
If they have put in a costing that doesn't add up that fraud. It's simply the definition of what fraud is.
Click to expand...

No. If they have hidden expenditure or misreported it, that's fraud.

If they list their expenses on canteen food and sick pay and say "this doesnt count to the budget" and then FIA take a look and say "actually yes it does", that's not fraud.

It's really basic stuff. The FIA said in their statement they havent opened any investigations. That means no fraud, only different interpretations of what counts or not.
 
hobbers said:
No. If they have hidden expenditure or misreported it, that's fraud.

If they list their expenses on food and sick pay and say "this doesnt count to the budget" and then FIA take a look and say "actually yes it does", that's not fraud.

It's really basic stuff. The FIA said in their statement they havent opened any investigations. That means no fraud, only different interpretations of what counts or not.
Click to expand...
If it's a couple of grand then nobody will say anything but if it's hundreds of thousands to millions then that is fraud. I don't trust the FIA where Red Bull are concerned.
 
sun_tzu said:
Presumably because they thought whatever they were spending on did not count towards the cost cap

If thats true then logically they will probably have carried on accounting in the same way this year as well
Click to expand...

Good point. That seems highly likely doesn't it.
 
Fully Fledged said:
If it's a couple of grand then nobody will say anything but if it's hundreds of thousands to millions then that is fraud. I don't trust the FIA where Red Bull are concerned.
Click to expand...

If RB reported the expense then it's definitionally not fraud whether it's £10 or £10m.

The key thing about fraud is you'd need forensic accounting to spot it. That's why the FIA went to the bother of saying they hadn't opened any investigations.
 
Fully Fledged said:
If they have put in a costing that doesn't add up that fraud. It's simply the definition of what fraud is.
Click to expand...
It's not as straight forward as that. Fraud in this case is misleading the FIA or deliberately concealing information

https://www.sbnation.com/2022/10/5/23387387/formula-one-f1-red-bull-ferrari-aston-martin-cost-cap

Then there are potential aggravating factors to consider. In the regulations, these are listed as: Any element of bad faith, dishonesty, willful concealment or fraud; multiple breaches of the cost cap; failure to cooperate with the CCA or any independent audit; among other potential factors to consider.
 
hobbers said:
If RB reported the expense then it's definitionally not fraud whether it's £10 or £10m.

The key thing about fraud is you'd need forensic accounting to spot it. That's why the FIA went to the bother of saying they hadn't opened any investigations.
Click to expand...
They've been spending 6 months looking over Red Bulls books according to Toto last weekend.
 
avgp_1 said:
It's not as straight forward as that. Fraud in this case is misleading the FIA or deliberately concealing information

https://www.sbnation.com/2022/10/5/23387387/formula-one-f1-red-bull-ferrari-aston-martin-cost-cap

Then there are potential aggravating factors to consider. In the regulations, these are listed as: Any element of bad faith, dishonesty, willful concealment or fraud; multiple breaches of the cost cap; failure to cooperate with the CCA or any independent audit; among other potential factors to consider.
Click to expand...
Everybody else knew the rules and stayed inside the cap all but Red Bull. You expect me to believe that Red Bull were the only ones who didn't understand the rules. They knew what they were doing.
 
If it's just fines then they need to publish the exact amount they went over. Other teams following the limit can decide for themselves whether it's worth going over by such an amount for a small fine which then raises the limit they can spend next year and evens it up somewhat trying to compete with Red Bull.

Set the precedent then follow it. Either actually punish Red Bull properly or fine them and detail this upper ceiling of spending so every team can decide to enter this higher limit with the same trivial fines for everyone tacked on.
 
redshaw said:
If it's just fines then they need to publish the exact amount they went over. Other teams following the limit can decide for themselves whether it's worth going over by such an amount for a small fine which then raises the limit they can spend next year and evens it up somewhat trying to compete with Red Bull.

Set the precedent then follow it. Either actually punish Red Bull properly or fine them and detail this upper ceiling of spending so every team can decide to enter this higher limit with the same trivial fines for everyone tacked on.
Click to expand...
The only problem with that is the only one to breach it last year was RB. Especially after what Ross Braun said it can't be just a fine. You will lose your championship has to mean you will lose your championship.
 
redshaw said:
If it's just fines then they need to publish the exact amount they went over. Other teams following the limit can decide for themselves whether it's worth going over by such an amount for a small fine which then raises the limit they can spend next year and evens it up somewhat trying to compete with Red Bull.

Set the precedent then follow it. Either actually punish Red Bull properly or fine them and detail this upper ceiling of spending so every team can decide to enter this higher limit with the same trivial fines for everyone tacked on.
Click to expand...
This is the problem the FIA have. Too leinient and teams will calculate the fines into their thinking and go "well its worth being fined x amount" in order to go 0.1-0.5 seconds quicker.

Thats why they have to come down hard. What example does it set that you let the team that has won a wdc or constructors off with a fine and a "promise you wont do it again will you?" Pat on the back?
 
redshaw said:
If it's just fines then they need to publish the exact amount they went over. Other teams following the limit can decide for themselves whether it's worth going over by such an amount for a small fine which then raises the limit they can spend next year and evens it up somewhat trying to compete with Red Bull.

Set the precedent then follow it. Either actually punish Red Bull properly or fine them and detail this upper ceiling of spending so every team can decide to enter this higher limit with the same trivial fines for everyone tacked on.
Click to expand...
Not a chance in hell.

You know it, I know it, the world knows it and Horner definitely knows it.

Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto said on Sunday ”If there is a breach, the penalty has to be significant. Our car has been developed respecting the budget cap and we know how much even a minor breach would have implied in performance.

"$5m is about half a second, $1-2m is 0.1-0.2secs, which can be the difference between second on the grid to pole.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Everybody else knew the rules and stayed inside the cap all but Red Bull. You expect me to believe that Red Bull were the only ones who didn't understand the rules. They knew what they were doing.
Click to expand...
It isnt about understanding the rules or not, it's deceiving the FIA and the Cost Cap Administration that is being classified as a fraudulent action. It's something the CCA will decide upon.

Then again it may not even get till there. Red Bull might just accept a breach agreement and get handed a smaller penalty
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Not a chance in hell.

You know it, I know it, the world knows it and Horner definitely knows it.

Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto said on Sunday ”If there is a breach, the penalty has to be significant. Our car has been developed respecting the budget cap and we know how much even a minor breach would have implied in performance.

"$5m is about half a second, $1-2m is 0.1-0.2secs, which can be the difference between second on the grid to pole.
Click to expand...
That's why the sport is fecked.
 
avgp_1 said:
It isnt about understanding the rules or not, it's deceiving the FIA and the Cost Cap Administration that is being classified as a fraudulent action. It's something the CCA will decide upon.

Then again it may not even get till there. Red Bull might just accept a breach agreement and get handed a smaller penalty
Click to expand...
The point is that they like everybody else knew the rules and put in a budget that was below the cap knowing they had exceeded it. That's fraud and Ross Braun said that would mean losing your title, not a fine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.