Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

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Let's be friends,
With their tanks and their bombs,
And their bombs and their drones,
they are not fighting ...
 
Western commentators furiously rushing to repeat the latest Putin nonsense. Does my nut in.
 
VorZakone said:
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Who was trying to destroy Russia and have it wiped off the "geopolitical map"? How?

It is back to the Soviet era. The USSR was also full of such extreme lies that you really can't respond to, because they are completely incoherent. How can you respond to something that has no basis in reality?

In the West, the problem today is the same problem we faced in the Soviet era. There are many "useful idiots" that parrot these Russian lies. Some of them are just misguided. Others might not be misguided only. For example, we know that in the Soviet era many European communist parties were receiving money from the USSR. I don't know what is happening today, but I would not be surprised if Putin is paying some journalists or commentators in the West, in order to spread lies and discord. And then there is a third group that hates the West, no matter what.

The question is: what can we do about it? Can we do anything without causing harm to freedom of speech or to our other freedoms?
 
NotThatSoph said:
There's been some talk in here about alleged spying in Norway, with some arrests made. Drones and the like. I don't think much is known about those cases yet, but one person arrested in Svalbard is Andrey Yakunin, son of Vladimir Yakunin who has pretty close ties to Putin (Wiki link). https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/...-er-en-del-av-putins-absolutt-naermeste-krets

What the cases involving drones mean is hard to say, because with the sanctions it's illegal no matter how benign the filming is so it can be anything. In this specific instance it's also a bit more unclear about the legalities with Svalbard having some laws about discrimination based on nationality that may or may not be relevant here. More on that: https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/angriper-droneforbudet_-_-bryter-mot-svalbardtraktaten-1.16145691

Both articles in Norwegian, so you'll have to use a translator if you're interested in details.
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Yakunin released, decision appealed. Court says drones aren't covered by the sanctions.

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/q1PprE/lagmannsretten-vil-loeslate-dronesiktede-andrej-jakunin
 
It's like a code, trying to get any meaning from Putin's lies.

Goebbels famously said to accuse the enemy of what you yourself are doing. Obviously someone is leveling Ukrainian cities, so you say Ukraine is doing it.

NATO and allies are helping Ukraine, so you say you're the one helping Ukraine, while you accuse them of the war crimes and threats you are executing.

Much easier than creating some other type of story to explain things, as you just flip reality everyday, no special creativity or intelligence required either.
 
frostbite said:
Who was trying to destroy Russia and have it wiped off the "geopolitical map"? How?

It is back to the Soviet era. The USSR was also full of such extreme lies that you really can't respond to, because they are completely incoherent. How can you respond to something that has no basis in reality?

In the West, the problem today is the same problem we faced in the Soviet era. There are many "useful idiots" that parrot these Russian lies. Some of them are just misguided. Others might not be misguided only. For example, we know that in the Soviet era many European communist parties were receiving money from the USSR. I don't know what is happening today, but I would not be surprised if Putin is paying some journalists or commentators in the West, in order to spread lies and discord. And then there is a third group that hates the West, no matter what.

The question is: what can we do about it? Can we do anything without causing harm to freedom of speech or to our other freedoms?
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I think what Putin means is the influence of western culture and how that threatens his hold over Russia and their way of life and generally what it means to be Russian. This is what they believe they are fighting against and why they believe they are being attacked.
 
VorZakone said:
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Ah, Vladimir Rudolfovich is actually entering his best Alex Jones mode possible. The potential for rants is truly promising. When winter comes and poor Russian soldiers will start freezing without proper clothing, he may start invoking Pushkin's poetry about winter.

Still Igor Girkin for me is the winner with comparing this war to Diablo, a certain video game. :lol:
 
Putin was just talking to the Russians obviously to back him against the West right now, probably for two reasons: 1). running out of options to win the war. 2). scared of losing his power.

There is not much point for people outside of Russia to make sense of what he spouts.
 
balaks said:
I think what Putin means is the influence of western culture and how that threatens his hold over Russia and their way of life and generally what it means to be Russian. This is what they believe they are fighting against and why they believe they are being attacked.
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If Putin means this, then that's bullshit too. For example, they did not ban McDonald's, or Facebook, or Hollywood movies, or whatever else "threatens" their way of life.

Thinking about this... what is their "way of life"? The gulags? The prisons? The KGB? Murdering the opposition? Or is it just invasions to nearby countries?
 
Putin sure likes to talk. A lot.

I remember one other dictator from the past who used to talk and talk and talk.
 
Real Name said:
Putin sure likes to talk. A lot.

I remember one other dictator from the past who used to talk and talk and talk.
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Gaddafi? Much more worthy man than Putin whatever way you look at it.
 
TwoSheds said:
Gaddafi? Much more worthy man than Putin whatever way you look at it.
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There was a guy with initials of A. H. who springs to mind.


Also, how many times he said the West in his speech. About 50?
He even quoted Dostoevsky.
 
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frostbite said:
In the West, the problem today is the same problem we faced in the Soviet era. There are many "useful idiots" that parrot these Russian lies. Some of them are just misguided. Others might not be misguided only. For example, we know that in the Soviet era many European communist parties were receiving money from the USSR. I don't know what is happening today, but I would not be surprised if Putin is paying some journalists or commentators in the West, in order to spread lies and discord. And then there is a third group that hates the West, no matter what.

The question is: what can we do about it? Can we do anything without causing harm to freedom of speech or to our other freedoms?
Click to expand...
It’s terrifying how many people repeat absolute Russian nonsense about Euromaidan. Even more worrying is that you cannot tell who actually believes it and who is repeating it as a meme merely to show allegiance to a group.
 
More Norwegian spy stuff, continuing from:

NotThatSoph said:
There's been some talk in here about alleged spying in Norway, with some arrests made. Drones and the like. I don't think much is known about those cases yet, but one person arrested in Svalbard is Andrey Yakunin, son of Vladimir Yakunin who has pretty close ties to Putin (Wiki link). https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/...-er-en-del-av-putins-absolutt-naermeste-krets

What the cases involving drones mean is hard to say, because with the sanctions it's illegal no matter how benign the filming is so it can be anything. In this specific instance it's also a bit more unclear about the legalities with Svalbard having some laws about discrimination based on nationality that may or may not be relevant here. More on that: https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/angriper-droneforbudet_-_-bryter-mot-svalbardtraktaten-1.16145691

Both articles in Norwegian, so you'll have to use a translator if you're interested in details.
Click to expand...

13th of October; the military observes a drone around an important gas plant, the drone is way too big to be a hobby drone. Police is investigating, loads of them on the scene. Dramatic. https://www.nrk.no/norge/forsvaret-meldte-fra-om-mulig-droneobservasjon-ved-gassanlegg-1.16138874

28th of October. Looks like it was a commercial airplane. https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/drone-over-karsto-var-truleg-sas-fly-1.16156364

In potentially more serious news, a researcher at the University of Tromsø has been arrested, suspected of being a spy. Allegedly he's Russian, while according to his papers he's Brazilian. Parallells to the show The Americans (which is great) have been made. He was working with stuff related to security and warfare. The GreyZone mentioned in the article is a research group, not the publication that has been talked about in here before. https://www.nrk.no/norge/pst-sikter-spionmistenkt-i-tromso-for-ulovlig-etterretning-1.16156368
 
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