They've benefited a lot from playing crap teams at the right time (out of form and right before they've sacked managers). Last two games no exception. Lucky last week and failed to win today. They'll regress to mean soon enough when they start facing in-form teams.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't like the Odegaard-Vieira sub he's doing. Even exhausted, Odegaard can create something out of nothing, he's way too good to be subbed off, especially when we need a goal.
When Ole was top of the league and finished 2nd everyone said it was only because all the other teams were having a crap season, why isn't the same being said for Arteta and Arsenal?
Also I can't stand the way he runs around on the touchline flapping and screaming at the refs everytime his players get fouled
Also I can't stand the way he runs around on the touchline flapping and screaming at the refs everytime his players get fouled
Probably because our points tally was that of a fringe top 4 side at 74 points, and an even worse xPTS at 66. Our performances never passed the eye test either, to any sane person it never felt like we were watching a top class side.
Arsenal are currently on course for 99 points and an xPTS of 83 (obviously they won't maintain for the full season). They also look like a genuinely top side when you watch them.
They'll drop off and finish 2nd behind City. But they look miles better so far this season than we ever did under Ole.
Doing well so far.
Well, Arteta was pegged by one of the best managers ever to be his successor. At Arsenal he has been very specific, methodical and detailed about the team he wanted to create and how he wanted them to play…. And he looks to have done it.
Whether he continues to have full backing at Arsenal, AND continues to have injury luck both remain to be seen. But they guy can coach.
For me it’s the eye test more than than a look at the table.
They played a really poor Chelsea today. A Chelsea missing both their first choice full backs, two of their first choice centre backs, their first choice midfielder, and their other first choice midfielder was half fit. James, Chilwell, Koulibaly, Fofana, Kante, all missing with Kovacic only able to play 12 minutes.
Agreed. This added to the fact that the fixture list has been extremely kind to them. They are going to collapse like a deck of cards post WC.
They have had a lot of things go their way. Not had any major injury issues yet either. Their time will come.
That Man United team won 21 games in the league that season. This Arsenal team has already won 11 with 25 games left to play. We could win less than half our remaining games and beat United's 21 game win tally.
Arteta is one of the best young managers in the world. I think he is better than Nagelsmann. It took a while but he cleared the deck and brought in his own players and sent a message he wont tolerate any rubbish with he way he dealt with PEA.
He has always been considered a soft touch by rival fans, infact going into the season among ETG, Pep, Klopp, Conte, Tuchel. Arteta was considered the odd man out as not belonging as a manager of one of the top clubs in England.
Yes, he has had two 8th place finishes, & we failed to hold onto 4h last season, but there was always work being done behind the scenes that has put us into our current position. He is young and very early into his management career, but he clearly showing signs of being a manager that needs to be taken seriously.
How many injuries are you expecting us to have? A complete decimation of the first 11?
Arteta is shit. End of story
Covid season. Everything about that league season should have an asterisk next to it.
Deserve to be where you are,most impressive thing is being top of the league and goal difference despite Jesus not scoring in 9.
Their start has been incredible. Only three points worse off than us after 13 games in the 19/20 season.
There’re a lot of excuses and explanations being dished out for their start but they begin every single game on the front foot and have deserved to win every game I’ve seen them in this season. They’ll probably finish 2nd as long as they don’t have a disastrous injury run. They’ll definitely be in the top four.
There’re a lot of excuses and explanations being dished out for their start but they begin every single game on the front foot and have deserved to win every game I’ve seen them in this season. They’ll probably finish 2nd as long as they don’t have a disastrous injury run. They’ll definitely be in the top four.
It has been in said in this thread, many times since it's inception. It's just that it's a lazy one that doesn't actually say anything.
As impressive as Arsenal has been, I still can’t stand the sight of this lord larys strong looking cnut. Boring bastard.
They've had a far harder fixture run than Man. City last time I looked.
Already played all of Man. United, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea. Man. City only played two of those with the Spurs game postponed. Think by time of break Man. City will also have played two more home games in the schedule as they're at home to Brentford next week while Arsenal have another away to Wolves.
They've done very well to be top so far.
I think we are out of excuses now. They are pretty good and will sustain a title challenge. Probably win it who knows
Not just rival fans considering him a soft touch, it's not long ago there was plenty of Arsenal fans begging for him to be sacked. You're right he is the odd man out at the top clubs because he wouldn't still be in a job at them other clubs after finishing 8th 8th and 5th
As a Utd fan, I do agree with this.
Lots of bitterness in here. I can’t stand Arteta, he’s a dour cnut. But he’s got these Arsenal players purring.
You guys have really forgot the Arsenal boom busy cycle? Arsenal are always going to win the league this year as their fan base and the media would have you believe when they are top of the league in the early months of the season. Cometh January and the fixtures pile up, in the cold wet miserable weather, and by the End of February, flaky Arsenal are out of contention for every honour except scrapping for top 4.
Years ahead of us right now
They aren't collapsing this year
They’ve been massively fortunate enough with a kind fixture list and meeting the big 6 teams when they are on bad form (spurs, liverpool) or depleted with injuries (chelsea). The inevitable collapse is coming and reckon we can still finish above them.
I am still scarred by our collapse for top 4 last season and definitely understand people's distrust in us. I am not fully trusting of this (young) team myself, but even if we can't sustain it this season I am quite confident we are now as close as we've been in a very long time to mounting some sort of title challenge. I don't think this is a false dawn and I think we can now see why the board trusts Arteta.
People will talk about our lack of depth and I don't disagree, but we have had that depth tested already (we've had injuries to Partey, Zinchenko, Saka, Odegaard, Elneny, Tomiyasu) and in all comps have only lost twice (United and PSV) and drawn once (Soton). Arteta has done brilliantly to manage this squad so far, which on paper, looks quite thin. He's definitely exceeded my expectations there.
Worst case scenario ATM is we go into the WC 1 point behind City (if we lose against Wolves and City win their game) and we only have 2-3 players going to the WC (Partey, Saka and Saliba, maybe Jesus). So perhaps the WC won't disrupt us as much as other squads, but who knows. Still, if we can bring in one midfielder and one CF or winger in Jan, I will really start to get excited. Either way, am definitely just enjoying it right now.
Yeah but we stuck with him and look at the dividends being paid.
Maybe this could be us in 2 years,well maybe not due to our clueless board
Your 11 points of the pace which is a mountain for a team that has picked up 34 points from 39. United have also proven that they can't sustain a long enough run to bridge the gap. Your goal difference is also negative (not a good sign)
And if our wins against Liverpool and Spurs don't count due to their bad form, do yours??
We are one month of good results then take an absolute mauling to set us back. Still fear our board won't allow the full reign that Arteta has been given to make wholesale changes
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How long do we say this for? We are 13 games into the season now, we've played 4/5 teams from the traditional top 6, only City left to play. Played 2 at home, 2 away out of those games, and by the time next week comes, we'll have played only 6 home games and 8 away.
It's also mental to talk about easier fixture lists, we've seen how teams can drop points to any team. You can argue it won't last, we won't sustain this, talk about inevitable collapses etc and I might even agree with you, but you just can't argue now with what we've done so far up to now.
Its now morphed into timing of fixtures. For instance United today had to play Emery in his first match as Villa boss - its rather poor timing, had this match taken place two weeks ago United would likely win.
Apparently, we have been fortunate with the timing of our fixtures. Im not sure how though. Weve got Wolves this week. Im sure a reason will be sourced for why Wolves wont be 'up for it'
There’s a lot of delusions and wishful thinking here. When you look at the age of this Arsenal team, not only are we a threat this season, but for years to come. The teams that collapsed in recent years didn’t have Saliba , let alone Jesus and Zinchenko. The new Arsenal, here to stay.
We may very well have a drop, but I find it hard to believe how United, with a -1 goal difference, is going to improve that massively to claw back an 11 point gap. You're going to have to sign Mbappe or something. You had a good Oct then follow it up by being thumped by Villa. If I were a United fan, I'd be worried that you've had 4 games now (Brighton, Brentford, City, Villa) where you were essentially out of the contest by halftime (going down 2 or more goals very quickly). And unlike past United teams, never really looked like getting back into the game.
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You're in a much better starting position than we were though. From the little I've watched of United, Ten Hag has brought some of his tactics in place earlier than Arteta did. Perhaps because Arteta didn't think the players he initially inherited could employ the tactics needed. So initially we looked a bit like a Mourinho side and then we became a side overlapping on the left flank to get the best out of our best player in Auba while defending as a parked bus. Where as Ten Hag has implemented possession football, a high line and passing in triangles from the start. The challenge then is being able to stop counter attacks in such a system. It's something that currently hurts this United team at times and it often hurt many Wenger possession sides. Currently Arteta has a system to stop counter attacks, not infallible as United showed. But essentially the whole team is tasked on winning the ball back as quickly as possible or carrying out a tactical foul to stop the counter attack. You should be a much better pressing side without Ronaldo and getting in a suitable replacement. It's also pretty easy to upgrade the squad with 1 or 2 quality midfielders
One mistake I think you are making is not bringing in a director of football. Ten Hag didn't make Ajax's signings, Marc Overmars did as Director of Football. Now you have Ten Hag primarily targeting former players and 30yo Real Madrid players. You've got some good players but it looks like you haven't got the best scouting and recruitment plan in place. Caseimiro is a really good player right now. But will he be a really good player in 3 seasons time when he's 33? I don't know. If I was a United I'd hope you didn't sign Gakpo as I think that would be a mistake.
Come on now, people really need to stop it with that lazy excuse. We've played 8 of the top 11 currently in the league and 5 of those games were away.
This Chelsea side is the same that Man Utd played 2 weeks ago minus Chilwell. Yesterday, Tottenham played a weaker and more out of form Liverpool than the one we played and yet they lost.
We're not going to win the league, there isn't a team in the world that can match Man City's depth and consistency. But at the moment we're far ahead of Tottenham, Utd and Chelsea. I remember when we were struggling, some posters on here were suggesting that we sack Arteta and go with Potter. Credit needs to be given where its due, we stuck with Arteta and it's paying off.
Is this your version of they.are.afraid?
If you can keep the team together, and not melt down at some point this year.
It's 13 games. This time last year Chelsea were top and Tuchel was great
Very true, and Chelsea eventually ended up 3rd. If we can replicate that, it'll definitely be a huge improvement from where we've been in the past several years, and we would have achieved our objective of top 4. But I think what can be said is how Arteta has improved us each season - he's taken us from finishing 8th (twice), 5th last season, and we have a very good chance of improving on that now. If the board had listened to fans (like myself) we would have sacked him a year or so ago.