SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

(I’ve not been following the chinese reaction too much but have heard of their zero covid policy).
So, why are the Chinese doing that? Why can’t they open up like other highly vaccinated countries?

The question as to why a vaccine mandate is not even enforced to precede any reopening has been raised in the following thread:



According to the attached article from the Financial Times, key explanations are a cultural aversiveness to risk and a high vaccine hesitancy risk among the elderly.

A big problem lies in Chinese culture, which is more risk-averse than many other countries when it comes to diseases and vaccines, said Xinran Andy Chen, an analyst at China consultancy Trivium.

While a relatively high vaccine hesitancy rate among China’s elderly population predates the pandemic, the problem has been exacerbated by official messaging about the dangers of Covid over the past two-and-a-half years.

Despite the Communist party’s enormous powers of social control, ordering the elderly to vaccinate is viewed as a step too far, even for Xi, because of fears it would spark “dramatic social resistance”.

“They don’t want to force through a vaccine mandate [but] they can’t afford old people dying. So that is why stringent Covid controls are still in place,” Chen said.

I understand that taking a vaccine is a leap of faith for anybody, but there are reasons why standard testing practices exist to minimize harm and to obtain solid results prior to any mass production and mass rollout. Furthermore, such vaccine hesitancy among the elderly also existed in neighboring Asian countries (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, etc.), but I guess the messaging has been a lot more effective in those countries as the elderly from those countries have high vaccination rates now. I suspect that a number of people in both local and central Chinese governments have chosen to not put up their pants and to not take responsibility, even when no-nonsense decisions were within reach.

Further down in the same article, something has been raised Chinese-made vaccines.

Experts believe that the main Chinese-made vaccines provide high levels of protection from severe illness and death with three doses. But they are less effective and fade faster than the mRNA technology developed by BioNTech/Pfizer and Moderna, which are used across the west. The Chinese are also untested in the event of a huge outbreak.

Chen, of Trivium, added that the Chinese government believed the benefits of foreign-made vaccines were outweighed by the political and economic risks.

From Beijing’s point of view, “the cost of losing national pride, the cost of losing market share to a foreign competitor, is much greater than using a marginally better vaccine that is not 100 per cent effective in preventing infection”, he said.

In other words, the government is so afraid of losing face in front of the greater effectiveness of existing Western-made mRNA vaccines that they chose to double down with an approach that has clearly reached its limits because of the nature of the COVID variant. Lockdowns and testing may be beneficial to the elderly, who don't do much in life (no work, no school, no shopping, only hanging around with friends), but this putting a severe burden on working age groups as shown by slower growth and a rise in youth unemployment (20% now). Furthermore, China almost had 2 years to develop plenty of different vaccine types by now.

The sad part is that there will be more tragedies like the Urumqi fire, the severe lockdowns across the country, and the outpouring of anger from the Foxconn employees before things get any better.
 
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Haunting scream...



What a fecked up society.

The biggest paradox out there is the use of extreme coercion for quarantining/testing versus the total lack of coercion for vaccination. All of that because the government chose to obey to the antivaxxer whims of the elderly instead of 1) improving the messaging on vaccines and 2) telling the most vaccine-resistant crowd to shove it up in the ass.
 
It’s a shitshow alright. I’d no idea that they had a large group of anti vaxxers in China. Is it because they’re anti sinovac not anti vaccine?
 
It’s a shitshow alright. I’d no idea that they had a large group of anti vaxxers in China. Is it because they’re anti sinovac not anti vaccine?
No, the article in the Financial Times already mentioned that the antivaccine stance among the Chinese elderly has existed since before COVID.
 
So why the big lockdowns then?
it sounds simple to just tell the unvaxxed elderly to stay inside and let the rest get of the vaxxed population get on with life. the Chinese govmnt must know who’s vaxxed and who’s not.
 
So why the big lockdowns then?
it sounds simple to just tell the unvaxxed elderly to stay inside and let the rest get of the vaxxed population get on with life. the Chinese govmnt must know who’s vaxxed and who’s not.

Can't be 100% sure, but I think that's because several members from the Central Committee (top members of the Chinese government) are among those unvaxxed elderly, who believe in the silly antivaccine rhetoric and may go as far as to preach for traditional/alternative medicine instead. One also has to remember that those party elites are not exactly the brightest lightbulbs to begin with and are probably there because of cronyism. Furthermore, those people at the top of the pyramid are only interested in maintaining power. Lockdowns are used as a tool to enforce social control, but the omicron variant ain't going to stop poking holes in that approach.
 
I’d heard that the Chinese watching the World Cup were amazed to see people congregating like they are. That alone must make them think their govmnt is lying to them.
 
Re the anti-vaxx in China, that is because the country has a history of problems with their vaccines and there is a trust deficit in the society regarding vaccines.
 


So the father of one of the families who died in the fire survived because he's been in a concentration camp for five years. Assuming he's still alive in the camp.
 
Re the anti-vaxx in China, that is because the country has a history of problems with their vaccines and there is a trust deficit in the society regarding vaccines.
That makes sense alright. These protests I’m hearing about now; it’ll be interesting to see whether the govmnt cracks down or changes policy. I suppose it depends on how large the protests get.
At some point the govmnt may decide staying in power is more important than holding to a zero covid policy. Of course a crack down could get ugly.
 
Impressive incompetence from Xi on this one. A lot of the vaccines they've been using up to now are not terribly effective and a lot of elderly people are unvaccinated anyway. If he does relax the lockdowns then an awful lot of people in China are going to die I think.
 
I've finally got it from my wife who attended a super spreader event - 12-15 out of 40 people who attended got it. After feeling like utter shit on Saturday I'm gradually recovering. I can't imagine what deadlier strains would have been like pre-immunisation.
 
I've had 4 and would love to have a 5th especially as the new vaccines have been tweaked for omicron. I'll see if I can get my doc to get me a 5th next time I go.

Too fecking late. Annoyed as I'm sure I'd have been less sick if I'd had active antibodies and not just had to rely on memory cells - good job though they seem to have done.
 
I've finally got it from my wife who attended a super spreader event - 12-15 out of 40 people who attended got it. After feeling like utter shit on Saturday I'm gradually recovering. I can't imagine what deadlier strains would have been like pre-immunisation.

Took my parents to a college football game last night and let them ride with me. I got a call this morning that my dad tested positive. I've made it almost 3 years and am now just waiting to get sick after spending about 1.5 hours in the car with them last night. I have had the bivalent booster so maybe I'll avoid it. :mad:
 
Took my parents to a college football game last night and let them ride with me. I got a call this morning that my dad tested positive. I've made it almost 3 years and am now just waiting to get sick after spending about 1.5 hours in the car with them last night. I have had the bivalent booster so maybe I'll avoid it. :mad:

Good luck. Hopefully you will.dodge the bullet.
 
Thanks! Hopefully you're on the mend too.

Much better thanks.

Started to feel slightly sick on Friday night. By Saturday morning I was so ill I could hardly move and slept for 18 hrs. Felt slightly better on Sun but not much. This morning was another improvement and I've been feeling better and better all day. I'm very thankful for the vaccines.
 
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Took my parents to a college football game last night and let them ride with me. I got a call this morning that my dad tested positive. I've made it almost 3 years and am now just waiting to get sick after spending about 1.5 hours in the car with them last night. I have had the bivalent booster so maybe I'll avoid it. :mad:
Good luck! Which game?
 
Too fecking late. Annoyed as I'm sure I'd have been less sick if I'd had active antibodies and not just had to rely on memory cells - good job though they seem to have done.
The plus side is you will have even better immunity now once you've recovered. Get better soon, I've had it twice and it is definitely miserable.
 
Any recent research on Myocarditis risk of additional boosters? I'm booked in for the fourth dose but I'm beginning to wonder if I actually need it as it seems a lot of doctors are not convinced the risk is worth it for under 40s. If you had 3 uneventful, covid symptom free vaccines already are you home and dry for subsequent doses?
My music teacher (38, very sporty and fit) got Covid a couple of weeks ago and it wiped him out for 10 days. He was really unwell and couldn't even get out of bed. He has had 3 vaccinations and doesn't want any more, but I think the effect Covid has had on him isn't worth risking again, if you can mitigate that risk.

Strangely enough, I had a music lesson with him for an hour on the day he started to feel unwell and later tested positive. We were in an unventilated room with a fan heater running. I didn't get Covid. It's a bit of a lottery.
 
My music teacher (38, very sporty and fit) got Covid a couple of weeks ago and it wiped him out for 10 days. He was really unwell and couldn't even get out of bed. He has had 3 vaccinations and doesn't want any more, but I think the effect Covid has had on him isn't worth risking again, if you can mitigate that risk.

Strangely enough, I had a music lesson with him for an hour on the day he started to feel unwell and later tested positive. We were in an unventilated room with a fan heater running. I didn't get Covid. It's a bit of a lottery.

I got the fourth dose on Friday. Barely even a sore arm this time, wouldn't know I'd had it if I hadn't seen the needle.

My wife on the other hand is still feeling rough 3 days later. She got very ill when she had the real thing last year whereas again I hardly noticed. It is just luck of the draw.
 
I got the fourth dose on Friday. Barely even a sore arm this time, wouldn't know I'd had it if I hadn't seen the needle.

My wife on the other hand is still feeling rough 3 days later. She got very ill when she had the real thing last year whereas again I hardly noticed. It is just luck of the draw.
I'm getting number 5 (the bivalent) next week, it's now available to the over-60s in Marche. Fingers crossed ....
 
I'm getting number 5 (the bivalent) next week, it's now available to the over-60s in Marche. Fingers crossed ....

That's the one we had, Pfizer Plus. Our experience has been that every subsequent dose has been a little better than the last, and I think given our age we won't bother with any further jabs unless something major changes.
 
I've finally got it from my wife who attended a super spreader event - 12-15 out of 40 people who attended got it. After feeling like utter shit on Saturday I'm gradually recovering. I can't imagine what deadlier strains would have been like pre-immunisation.
Get well soon
 
That's the one we had, Pfizer Plus. Our experience has been that every subsequent dose has been a little better than the last, and I think given our age we won't bother with any further jabs unless something major changes.

I"d be getting any shot you can. I had 4 but I got infected quite a while after tge 4th and the 2 or 3 days delay that it took memory cells to produce enough antibodies were deeply unpleasant.
 
I"d be getting any shot you can. I had 4 but I got infected quite a while after tge 4th and the 2 or 3 days delay that it took memory cells to produce enough antibodies were deeply unpleasant.

At my age and after 4 jabs the risk of vaccine side effects are likely not that far off my chances of getting seriously ill.