City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

Oranges038 said:
It's widely assumed but not proven that he used PEDs, steroids etc. But never proven as he never failed a drugs test.

It's been widely assumed that City have been using some creative accounting and inflating sponsorships to get around FFP. But again it's not been proven yet.



Yeah I mean there were no rules about using influence and contacts to get preferential referees appointed.

Also there were no rules about over stating the market value of players to try and cover the losses accumulated by overpaying for one of the biggest players in the world.
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Same way as police shadowing other teams calls that came to light way too late to g3t other teams punished as well. As procurator Palazzi said. I wanna punish them but sadly it's too late! Opsie free scudetto and no punishment.

Also can you remember any other team selling youths players to stay ALIVE.
The fecking point is it's not illegal but somehow only one team getting punished. Bend and twist however you like it but you can't change facts.
 
Arios said:
Same way as police shadowing other teams calls that came to light way too late to g3t other teams punished as well. As procurator Palazzi said. I wanna punish them but sadly it's too late! Opsie free scudetto and no punishment.

Also can you remember any other team selling youths players to stay ALIVE.
The fecking point is it's not illegal but somehow only one team getting punished. Bend and twist however you like it but you can't change facts.
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Like I said to another Juve conspiracy theorist.

Maybe if they weren't obviously up to dodgy business all the time they wouldn't be such an easy target.
 
Oranges038 said:
Like I said to another Juve conspiracy theorist.

Maybe if they weren't obviously up to dodgy business all the time they wouldn't be such an easy target.
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Mate, as already posted before, the ordinary courts have always acquitted all parties involved.

I understand it’s hard to dispel myths and prejudices, yet ultimately that’s what sticks.
 
Bepi said:
Mate, as already posted before, the ordinary courts have always acquitted all parties involved.

I understand it’s hard to dispel myths and prejudices, yet ultimately that’s what sticks.
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Aye, Acquitted but mostly because the statute of limitations had passed and no further charges could be brought against them or the rest.

And of course Moggi was totally innocent and had his life time ban lifted.
 
Oranges038 said:
Aye, Acquitted but mostly because the statute of limitations had passed and no further charges could be brought against them or the rest.

And of course Moggi was totally innocent and had his life time ban lifted.
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Fortunately for you as a citizen, ordinary law ultimately gives any chance to speak to both prosecutors and defendants. If you think you need to dig forever until you find something (because you are sure there is something even before finding it), you are just an ultra, like the latest Neapolitan prosecutor Ciro Santoriello, a self-declared Juventus hater albeit a brilliant prosecutor, yet as such unsuited to investigate Juventus… we should agree on this if we are both living in Europe, right?
 
Zehner said:
Could you elaborate on the bolded part?
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I'm looking at this solely through the prism of "what would be more effective at improving the upwards mobility of clubs", and not a holistic overview of how I personally think the game should look like going forward. Basically any legislation that promotes the sporting side over the financial one when it comes to winning, to any extent large or small. It could be as radical as a wage cap in one of its many forms, squad based restrictions designed to deal with the stockpiling of players, a system designed around requiring a set amount of academy players. There are pros and cons to all of these, but unlike the City method they will would hypothetically effect all clubs. I need to stress that I'm not saying this should or shouldn't happen, just that if granting greater opportunities for smaller clubs to rise is the aim, there are more effective ways than eliminating financial oversight.

What City have done isn't based on closing the gap between the elite clubs and the non-elite in a widespread sense, there was no policy implemented designed to improve the chances of clubs rising in stature. They just won the lottery. They've made some great footballing decisions and play some wonderful football, but it's not something that can be emulated. Supporters have to cross their fingers and hope a billionaire purchases their club.

The EFL is more of a mess as well. Derby were lucky to avoid liquidation, and there are many other clubs with precarious financial situations. By trying to keep up with the clubs with wealthy owners, many of the clubs are gambling their futures. Covid compounded these issues, but it's a serious problem.
 
Even the clubs themselves need protection from their owners.

If you wake up and suddenly find the 70% of your £400m "revenue" is entirely fictitious paper accounting and you've got £200m a year commitments on staffing costs alone you'll have had better days
 
Super League news, Qatari interest in buying Man Utd and City is already yesterday's news. 2 years from now it will be like "hmmm whatever happened to the PL charges against City". Pep will be gone, Haaland will be gone, KDB will be older.. Any punishment won't feel the same as if it were to happen now.
 
jm99 said:
I don't mean to take this thread wildly off topic but anyone who thinks Bolt wasn't doping is pretty naive. This is list of the mens all time records with the people caught doping crossed out

wEHVnN9eJeEL-3nnyfJzbYPWnkK1rGDJ1PCxd9oIFjw.jpg

If you think the absolute elite, best of the beat, most talented people in the world who were doping couldn't manage 9.8 seconds, and there's a guy who's clean managing below 9.6, you're hopelessly naive
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That's the same three guys right?
 
Baneofthegame said:
That's the same three guys right?
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Tyson Gay, Yohan Blake, Asafa Powell and Justin Gatlin. Next is Christian Coleman, who missed three tests but got off because lawyers. Then there's Travyon Bromell, who hasn't tested positive yet but publicly idolizes dopers, and Fred Kerley who is doing the most suspicious thing of moving from 400m to 100m.
 
Oranges038 said:
Opening a can of worms there.

Everybody who's not a Juve fan in Italy is just out to get them. They've never done anything wrong and this latest attack is just another attempt to bring down the biggest club in Italy because they're all jealous.
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Yeah I thinks its just that. Jealousy.

:wenger:
 
Lot's of noise from various "berties" saying they've been hounded since 2008 and obviously it's a stitch up. I can't be the only one thinking if they are so innocent why don't the club come out with proof of this and dispel it straight away instead of it dragging on? It's almost as if they can't prove it (surprise surprise).
 
Bepi said:
Fortunately for you as a citizen, ordinary law ultimately gives any chance to speak to both prosecutors and defendants. If you think you need to dig forever until you find something (because you are sure there is something even before finding it), you are just an ultra, like the latest Neapolitan prosecutor Ciro Santoriello, a self-declared Juventus hater albeit a brilliant prosecutor, yet as such unsuited to investigate Juventus… we should agree on this if we are both living in Europe, right?
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Aye.

You claimed they were all acquitted.

They weren't.

The statute of limitations passed - so charges were dropped. Moggi and his sidekick were not fully acquitted. They got off on a technicality.

Now the big bad Napoli man is out to get you.

To misquote Roy. "Do me a favour, that's just utter nonsense."
 
I read somewhere that this could take up to 4 years before City are actually sanctioned.
 
Pearl's a minger said:
Lot's of noise from various "berties" saying they've been hounded since 2008 and obviously it's a stitch up. I can't be the only one thinking if they are so innocent why don't the club come out with proof of this and dispel it straight away instead of it dragging on? It's almost as if they can't prove it (surprise surprise).
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They've already been proven guilty but it was time barred.
 
Oranges038 said:
Aye.

You claimed they were all acquitted.

They weren't.

The statute of limitations passed - so charges were dropped. Moggi and his sidekick were not fully acquitted. They got off on a technicality.

Now the big bad Napoli man is out to get you.

To misquote Roy. "Do me a favour, that's just utter nonsense."
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This is the final Moggi pronunciation , again:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/ex-juventus-chief-moggi-a-free-man-following-final/bltab9f23c94ca3c73d

You can read, if you like. With that, let’s agree to disagree and move on.

All these were to say that the City / Abu Dhabis matter is potentially much bigger than a swift pronunciation by a private court in the mould desired by the herd rage, and possibly leading to long lasting damage for all parties.
 
Bepi said:
This is the final Moggi pronunciation , again:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/ex-juventus-chief-moggi-a-free-man-following-final/bltab9f23c94ca3c73d

You can read, if you like. With that, let’s agree to disagree and move on.

All these were to say that the City / Abu Dhabis matter is potentially much bigger than a swift pronunciation by a private court in the mould desired by the herd rage, and possibly leading to long lasting damage for all parties.
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He was cleared of most but not all. Same with the other guys, they got off and the statue of limitations played a key role in all of that.

Anyway I agree, this City business could rumble on for years, dragged through the courts, FFP will be scrutinised and the legalities of it challenged. City will do everything they can to drag it out.

That's why my feeling is that the punishment will be agreed upon behind closed doors and the whole thing will be settled in a way that means there'll be none of that.
 
Oranges038 said:
He was cleared of most but not all. Same with the other guys, they got off and the statue of limitations played a key role in all of that.

Anyway I agree, this City business could rumble on for years, dragged through the courts, FFP will be scrutinised and the legalities of it challenged. City will do everything they can to drag it out.

That's why my feeling is that the punishment will be agreed upon behind closed doors and the whole thing will be settled in a way that means there'll be none of that.
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They can’t challenge the legalities of FFP, it’s not going to court?
 
cyberman said:
They can’t challenge the legalities of FFP, it’s not going to court?
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Who knows?

There'd be no end in sight, 10 years or more and they still didn't settle all that match fixing nonsense in Italy. Juve were still looking for their titles back and compensation up until a few years ago.

If the PL deliver a ruling and punish City. They will likely challenge every avenue possible to try and overturn it. They could probably threaten to wrap in up in the courts for years and years.
 
Oranges038 said:
Who knows?

There'd be no end in sight, 10 years or more and they still didn't settle all that match fixing nonsense in Italy. Juve were still looking for their titles back and compensation up until a few years ago.

If the PL deliver a ruling and punish City. They will likely challenge every avenue possible to try and overturn it. They could probably threaten to wrap in up in the courts for years and years.
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But they can’t. Every team signs a deceleration at the start of every season saying they can’t challenge league rulings in courts.
It’s why CAS isn’t a possibility
If City did this they’d be kicked out anyway, it would be worse than any punishment they’d receive
 
cyberman said:
But they can’t. Every team signs a deceleration at the start of every season saying they can’t challenge league rulings in courts.
It’s why CAS isn’t a possibility
If City did this they’d be kicked out anyway, it would be worse than any punishment they’d receive
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I know CAS isn't a possibility.

Can the PL/Commission dish out whatever punishment they like and City will have no legal recourse to challenge any of the decisions, or the rules the decisions are based on?
 
Oranges038 said:
I know CAS isn't a possibility.

Can the PL/Commission dish out whatever punishment they like and City will have no legal recourse to challenge any of the decisions, or the rules the decisions are based on?
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Apparently not.
From what I’ve read it goes independent panel, appeal then another independent panel and if that fails another appeal but the third appeal would be if the panel broke any laws with their judgment, not if either side is right or wrong.
I don’t even think the second appeal is guaranteed, you can’t just randomly appeal without substance to your argument.
I think those steps will take a while but City won’t be able to drag this out just to drag it out
 
I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, but the BBC released a good podcast today on the Sports Desk. I'd advise everyone to give it a listen, they do quite a good job of summing everything up in just under an hour.

They invite a City fan on for his opinions and he does okay...although he's understandably defensive. One thing he does mention is how 'fantastic' (he uses that word a lot to describe them) their owners have been for the local community, building houses and a college and whatnot. I've been hearing that a lot recently, especially as a comparison with the Glazers (completely ignoring that we agree that the Glazers should never have been allowed to buy the club) and it's such self-serving bollocks. Anyone can invest in a community out of the goodness of their heart, that doesn't mean you have to cheat so the football team you own in that area is the best. You don't have to be much of a cynic to argue that one is just trying to build goodwill to help with the eventual fallout from the other...

One good point that was made towards the end of the podcast (I can't remember by whom) was about FFP just being a way to protect the richest clubs. The reporter agreed that there is an element of that, those clubs are always going to have an advantage due to their popularity after all, but he also argued that FFP has revolutionised football finances. It's main aim is to stop overspending that sees clubs like Bury completely destroyed, and it still does it's best to restrain the spending of the traditional powers. Look how Chelsea and others are constantly looking for loopholes.

He also said that thinking billionaire owners being allowed to buy the odd club here and there is a terrible way to introduce fairness. The best way to do this would be to find a way to more fairly redistribute the wealth that football generates, which is actually made harder by these greedy owners, especially the Glazers and their ilk. The thing is, this would only ever truly work if it was agreed across all of the world's league's, in some form. Germany obviously already has something like this, but good luck getting Madrid and Barca to share the wealth a bit more. They're still pushing the Super League idea so they can take even more of it away from the rest of Spanish football.
 
cyberman said:
But they can’t. Every team signs a deceleration at the start of every season saying they can’t challenge league rulings in courts.
It’s why CAS isn’t a possibility
If City did this they’d be kicked out anyway, it would be worse than any punishment they’d receive
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CAS is more than a possibility, it is the agreed final arbiter for a club in dispute. Clubs agree to go to the CAS instead of national or EU courts.
 
Oranges038 said:
I know CAS isn't a possibility.

Can the PL/Commission dish out whatever punishment they like and City will have no legal recourse to challenge any of the decisions, or the rules the decisions are based on?
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cyberman said:
Apparently not.
From what I’ve read it goes independent panel, appeal then another independent panel and if that fails another appeal but the third appeal would be if the panel broke any laws with their judgment, not if either side is right or wrong.
I don’t even think the second appeal is guaranteed, you can’t just randomly appeal without substance to your argument.
I think those steps will take a while but City won’t be able to drag this out just to drag it out
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Not strictly correct.

Heres the PL rule re challenge to the award.

Challenging the Award
X.37.
Subject to the provisions of sections 67 to 71 of the Act, the award shall be final and binding on the parties and there shall be no right of appeal. There shall be no right of appeal on a point of law under section 69 of the Act. In the event that a party to arbitration under this Section X challenges the award, whether in the English High Court or any other forum, it shall ensure that the League is provided with a copy of any written pleadings filed and/or evidence adduced as soon as reasonably practicable after their/its filing.
 
cyberman said:
Apparently not.
From what I’ve read it goes independent panel, appeal then another independent panel and if that fails another appeal but the third appeal would be if the panel broke any laws with their judgment, not if either side is right or wrong.
I don’t even think the second appeal is guaranteed, you can’t just randomly appeal without substance to your argument.
I think those steps will take a while but City won’t be able to drag this out just to drag it out
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Point is, if a private ruling shaped to deliberate up to, say, £10m matters disrupts their £1b business, they will however go to ordinary courts? Add to that, Abu Dhabi is not a democratic, liberal, westerner entity, and their sportwashing project is a state matter more than a commercial one. The only possible swift legal vehicle the FA has to put them out is to revoke their fit-and-proper passport and force them to sell the club. Every following dispute will leave City out of the mess, with nominal sanctions and new owners, and the PL would resume untouched.
 
cyberman said:
Apparently not.
From what I’ve read it goes independent panel, appeal then another independent panel and if that fails another appeal but the third appeal would be if the panel broke any laws with their judgment, not if either side is right or wrong.
I don’t even think the second appeal is guaranteed, you can’t just randomly appeal without substance to your argument.
I think those steps will take a while but City won’t be able to drag this out just to drag it out
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I don't think it's as clean cut as that.

4 years is the estimated timeframe being bandied about.

terraloo said:
Not strictly correct.

Heres the PL rule re challenge to the award.

Challenging the Award
X.37.
Subject to the provisions of sections 67 to 71 of the Act, the award shall be final and binding on the parties and there shall be no right of appeal. There shall be no right of appeal on a point of law under section 69 of the Act. In the event that a party to arbitration under this Section X challenges the award, whether in the English High Court or any other forum, it shall ensure that the League is provided with a copy of any written pleadings filed and/or evidence adduced as soon as reasonably practicable after their/its filing.
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So they mount a legal challenge through the courts?
 
Pearl's a minger said:
Lot's of noise from various "berties" saying they've been hounded since 2008 and obviously it's a stitch up. I can't be the only one thinking if they are so innocent why don't the club come out with proof of this and dispel it straight away instead of it dragging on? It's almost as if they can't prove it (surprise surprise).
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If they had nothing to hide and were innocent the investigation wouldn't have taken 4 years as they would have cooperated and handed over the information when asked. Case would have been closed fairly quickly. It'll be an absolute joke if they get away with this.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they were guilty with UEFA?

They just paid a £10m fine as punishment (rather than a ban).
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They were 100% guilty and only got off on a timing technicality. Pep is spouting bollocks.

He won't leave the gravy train (why would he, he's probably being paid a kings ransom he wouldn't get at any other club) unless they become relegated or transfer banned for a lengthy period.
 
I’d be checking his accounts for sure. Up to his bald head in corrupt affairs.
 
cyberman said:
But they can’t. Every team signs a deceleration at the start of every season saying they can’t challenge league rulings in courts.
It’s why CAS isn’t a possibility
If City did this they’d be kicked out anyway, it would be worse than any punishment they’d receive
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Can be appealed which would see the PL have to set up a new commission to run through everything again and then if that fails as well can be brought to the English high court but not CAS I think.
 
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