Do a player for player comparison then. I want to see how far off this team is from the team back in 2012.
Harry Kane | Bayern Munich player
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Do a player for player comparison then. I want to see how far off this team is from the team back in 2012.
The club are probably weighing up the sponsors feelings and any financial backlash at the moment and they probably do not want to rock the boat regarding the good form of the team.
I just can’t help hoping he’ll pull a Sheringham.
Levy would rather punt him off abroad than look like Wenger did.
I'm a big fan of his, but he's getting older and he moves all gangly like prime Phil Jones. I fear once the games catch up to him his decline will be steep. Osimhen is a lesser player as are most strikers but you'll get 5+ strong years out of him. Kane I'd be surprised if you even got 3 years from him.
That's great! If we sign Kane in the summer we'll certainly be contenders next year. He is exactly what we need.
Our starting xi was this:
De Gea
Valencia Ferdinand Evans Evra
Nani Jones Carrick Young
Rooney Welbeck
Other players who got significant minutes were Hernandez, Giggs, Smalling and Scholes (pretty much in that order). De Gea also had a pretty terrible 1st season and lost his place to Lindegaard for a while. Evra and Ferdinand hadn't lost it yet but they were definitely past their absolute primes and 2013/14 they were both done. Rooney and Carrick were definitely our best players at this stage with Nani also at his best. A massive responsibility was put on Wayne to provide our goals even with Chicharito and Welbeck also putting in respectable numbers (Berbatov also got a surprisingly excellent 7 league goals despite barely playing). Frankly, I think the suggestion that that team was so much better than this one is pretty ludicrous. The standard of lower teams in the PL is also significantly higher now than then imo due to how much money the lower teams have now vs then.Valencia Ferdinand Evans Evra
Nani Jones Carrick Young
Rooney Welbeck
I don't like the RVP comparison at all. RVP was coming off his best season in his career and was unquestionably at his peak. His last season and a half was incredible and overall a much higher level than current Kane.
Kane's stats are still great but Kane the striker peaked from 2017-2020. Still a top player but not as a bonafide No.9.
I also don't see the sense in signing him to the 'Weghorst role' behind Rashford as that would need us in need of a LW and we currently have much more pressing needs. We would also be pretty terrible off the ball if we're counting on Kane to press.
RVP's signing was a game changer, Kane's won't be IMO. Physically he's declining very quickly.
Kane's stats are still great but Kane the striker peaked from 2017-2020. Still a top player but not as a bonafide No.9.
I also don't see the sense in signing him to the 'Weghorst role' behind Rashford as that would need us in need of a LW and we currently have much more pressing needs. We would also be pretty terrible off the ball if we're counting on Kane to press.
RVP's signing was a game changer, Kane's won't be IMO. Physically he's declining very quickly.
10 starts or more:
de Gea (29)
Evra (37) - Rio (29) - Evans (28) - Jones (25) - Smalling (14) - Rafael (10)
Carrick (27) - Nani (24) - Valencia (22) - Young (19) - Giggs (14) - Scholes (14) - Park (10)
Rooney (32) - Welbeck (23) - Hernandez (18)
That squad had no rights to get 89 points.
Thanks. Pointing out what we both know and hopefully will end this silly argument that our team back then was more complete and ready for RVP than we are for a Kane.
Which your post proves is absolute nonsense.
We lived It. We know it is wasn’t.
I would have no issue with us signing Kane other than the age. He would be 30 in his first game for us. A good point discussed online was the fact there aren’t many English strikers or strikers that have played in the premier league that play well into their 30’s and maintain the standards.
A lot will point towards Lewandowski, Ronaldo etc but they haven’t played in the most competitive and difficult league in the world their whole career. I do wonder whether Kane would be able to follow a similar path of continuing to be top draw for the next 5 years or so having been exerted to the PL his whole career.
Personally, I would prefer a more dynamic and pacey striker. There will be big away games where having pace through the middle is crucial. Having Bruno and Kane as the central attack on the counter will be easier to handle for opponents. Yes we could have Rashford linking from the left similar to how Son and Kane link, but I have reservations about how Kane and Bruno can play together without both trying to occupy the same areas on the pitch.
A lot will point towards Lewandowski, Ronaldo etc but they haven’t played in the most competitive and difficult league in the world their whole career. I do wonder whether Kane would be able to follow a similar path of continuing to be top draw for the next 5 years or so having been exerted to the PL his whole career.
Personally, I would prefer a more dynamic and pacey striker. There will be big away games where having pace through the middle is crucial. Having Bruno and Kane as the central attack on the counter will be easier to handle for opponents. Yes we could have Rashford linking from the left similar to how Son and Kane link, but I have reservations about how Kane and Bruno can play together without both trying to occupy the same areas on the pitch.
I don't think it was SAF who converted Valencia to RB? Rafael got the equivalent of 37 full 90 min games that season.
EDIT: Apologies I assume you're doing the 11/12 season. But still, was it really SAF who converted Valencia to RB?
Yes
I don't think that's the only way to look at it. A squad has to be compared to what it was up against. The PL in that time was significantly weaker than it is now. There were no PL teams who were accumulating 90+ points the way City and Liverpool have been doing and there were nowhere near the quality of coaches at mid table teams the way we have now. Beating mid table teams was more straight forward and required less tactical and positional nous than it does now. That's why we had a team coached by Mourinho and with the likes of Pogba, Matic and Zlatan, seasoned professionals and who still couldn't manage to dominate a midfield and impose their game on mid table opposition. The tactical level has improved drastically with Pep, Klopp, Poch and few others over the past decade or so. Individual quality and mentality took you much further back then than it would now.
Valencia played plenty games that season at rw also with Nani switching between rw and lw depending on who was starting between Young, Rafael and Valencia. I think Giggs was mostly playing cm rather than lw at that stage with Scholes coming back in 2nd half of season to be our starting cm. But yes SAF was the first to play Valencia at rb. Smalling also played quite a few games at rb that season, whereas Jones played cb, rb and cm depending on the game. It's hard to keep track because SAF rotated so much.
Last edited:
If this goes through you just have to hope for him to age like Benzema and Lewandowski have because not every top striker does. I do worry about the signing because I still we have a season or two to go of great work in the market and on the training field to win major honours so in a sense the transition /growing period will take more time whereas Kane is a signing that may not have much use after a short period.
All in all it could be a great addition but I’d prefer someone in or approaching their prime whose lack of legs wont become an issue while they collect record wages
Sir Alex was an anomaly
Valencia very rarely played RB under Sir Alex. It was Mourinho.
10/11 2nd half of the season was Fabio, 12/13 it was Rafael, 11/12 was a mix where Jones, Rafael, Fabio and Smalling all played there. Jones also played CM/CB and Smalling also played at CB. It's hard to say what even was our main partnerships in most parts around the pitch. Evra was our only consistent defender, Carrick and Nani our only consistent midfielders, and Rooney our only consistent forward.
Genuine question about the CHANCE of winning the PL next season between Kane and Oshimen, which one give us best chance?
I think for us, the sooner we win the PL again the better. Its been 10 years and any time longer than that its going to do us no favor with our situation.
For me, Kane is as sure of a striker for us than any others albeit it for only 3 yrs (worse case scenario). Even if its only 1/2 yrs its worth it.
I think for us, the sooner we win the PL again the better. Its been 10 years and any time longer than that its going to do us no favor with our situation.
For me, Kane is as sure of a striker for us than any others albeit it for only 3 yrs (worse case scenario). Even if its only 1/2 yrs its worth it.
Kane gives us the best chance next year - but Osimhen gives us a chance of winning the next 3-4 years. I love Kane - but spending £200 million to have him for .. 4 years. That is an insane amount of money for a player who is worth nothing in 4 years. If we sign Osimhen - he can play for us close to 10 years - and we can still sell him and get our money back in 3-4 seasons.
Yes it was - because of injuries, and Sir Alex asked him to play right-back - this was the 11/12 season
“The manager asked me to fill in at right-back because two or three of my team-mates were injured,” Valencia told manutd.com.
“I was obviously happy to do that, especially when he mentioned that it was only for a brief period! I am more comfortable in my own position.”
That's not the point though. It's irrelevant how the teams measure up against each other.
What matters is that that squad challenged for the title and got within seconds of retaining it while the current one is on course to finish about 15 points behind the eventual champions.
Short of a young Messi, no single player is going to turn us into title challengers on his own. Kane may or may not be a step in the right direction but those asserting he would guarantee a title challenge are, in my opinion, simply wrong.
Don't think the source is reliable but 100m for a 30 year old Kane with one year left makes no sense for us
Yeah, Levy isn’t thick. He’s not hanging on for £100m unless someone is prepared to pay that. Possibly Chelsea will do so but no one else will pay that money. Should get him for £70m or so provided that he doesn’t want to join Chelsea.
watched one of those Sky shows yesterday. focused on Teddy - I'd forgotten totally how many PL goals the guy scored even after leaving us. and Kane is a level above him. when was the last time Kane didn't sore 20+ PL goals in a season? I know he and Aguerro (plus someone I can't remember) hold the record for the number of consecutive seasons doing that
just starting to believe we might actually put in a bid for Kane. would be brilliant business, possibly on a level with RvP
No situation is ever the same. So comparing wasn’t the point I was getting across. It’s the fact that people believe this team isn’t ready to compete. We are literally competing for 3 trophies this season. If we aren’t ready next season we never will.
At the start of next season, Varane 30, Fernandez 29, Casemiro 31, Eriksen 31, Dave, 33. We need to think about these things.
I guess DDG can be removed from that list given most people think that is prime age of a keeper (maybe one day he'll learn to command his area) and I'm willing to bet a lot of mid-20s players wish they could dominate games like Casemiro does...
Yes and no, he’s 33 which isn’t old for a keeper, which wouldn’t be a problem if people didn’t already think he needs replacing anyway. I think we’ll be in for a keeper this summer.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
- Messages
- 15,316
- Supports
️
Add in Kane and you have a title winning spine for 2 more years at least. At which point you have at least another 4 windows to bring in GK, CB, CDM, CM, CM/CAM.
Genuinely think that’s absolutely fine.
Disagree. Levy will absolutely hold out for near £100m if it's to a Premier League rival, and will be willing to keep him if necessary.
Maybe £80-90m could be enough.
And I know it's too much, but goodness me, imagine having a proven world class striker for the next few seasons.
There’s not a chance he joins Chelsea. If Chelsea were the only team in for him, he would end up staying.
I think it makes perfect sense. We're going for Kane and we're going for the league next season.
200 million
He’s available on a free in 2024If we get new owners,, than 3 good years of Kane should not be a problem.We Won't be strapped of cash . So might as well take the punt!
I still prefer Osimhein though.
I still prefer Osimhein though.
I am assuming we will fight for the league title anyway next season, with or without Kane. Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Chelsea all look nothing special and we have a good team and manager.
The season before RVP arrived we finished level on points with first place, finishing 2nd as City had a +8 goal difference. The next closest team was 19 points behind us.
As it stands this season we're in third place, 11 and 13 points behind the two teams ahead of us with varying amounts of games played. They already have a +28 and +36 goal difference on us. And there are three chasing teams within 8 points of us.
In other words this is not a similar position to the one we were in when we signed RVP. We're not nearly as good relative to the best team(s) in the league and we face much more competition from surrounding teams.
Obviously a striker of Kane's caliber would improve us. But it in no way guarantees major trophies as we aren't in a position where we just need to put a finishing touch on a potentially league winining team, nor are we immune to the much increased intensity of competition in the league.
I'm okay with signing Kane. But if our reasoning for doing so depends on us winning the league within the next one or two years specifically, it's bad reasoning. Because it wouldn't be particularly surprising if that doesn't happen. We need to believe he can fire us to title challenges across a longer period than that
As it stands this season we're in third place, 11 and 13 points behind the two teams ahead of us with varying amounts of games played. They already have a +28 and +36 goal difference on us. And there are three chasing teams within 8 points of us.
In other words this is not a similar position to the one we were in when we signed RVP. We're not nearly as good relative to the best team(s) in the league and we face much more competition from surrounding teams.
Obviously a striker of Kane's caliber would improve us. But it in no way guarantees major trophies as we aren't in a position where we just need to put a finishing touch on a potentially league winining team, nor are we immune to the much increased intensity of competition in the league.
I'm okay with signing Kane. But if our reasoning for doing so depends on us winning the league within the next one or two years specifically, it's bad reasoning. Because it wouldn't be particularly surprising if that doesn't happen. We need to believe he can fire us to title challenges across a longer period than that
Kane & Bellingham, add another top class winger & young prospect CB..