Club Sale | It’s done!

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E-mal said:
I find it self absorbing and hypocritical to be critical against the Qataris while living in a society that was built on the back of slaves.

Just recently the British government was asked to repatriate arts worth a fortune stolen from Nigeria during the slave trade and they have blatantly refused despite admitting that this is indeed property of the Nigerian people.


And for dear of being misquoted or misunderstood I am not making excuses for the Qatar government. All I am saying is most nations have blood on their hands.
There is very little I as a football fan can do about issues like these other than to continue to support my team.
For many of us football is an escape root from our daily hustles and we would appreciate it if we just enjoy our time watching our favorite team without being burdened by all the political rhetorics.
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Society has moved on, and can move further. Simply thinking “well, our ancestors did wrong therefore we cannot be progressive” has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Yes of course there’s a degree of hypocrisy of the West setting standards but it is an entirely new generation and there has been enlightenment in a lot of areas. The people who criticise Qatar are also deeply critical of the West’s history, and the West’s present shortcomings. Being born white in England doesn’t and shouldn’t prevent vocal criticisms.

Plenty of people agree with the spoils of colonialism being repatriated; as they should be. I’m of the opinion that most antiquities should be in their home nation and/or toured.

Nobody is forcing you to engage in politics around sport. You are choosing to read and engage with it. Politics is everything. If you don’t want any part of that then just stick to the football - you aren’t being forced into this discourse.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Oh, now we’re back to pretending some Sheikh Jizzoff is buying us and not the state.

I can’t keep up.
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It's not a country buying us but even if it was, you can't criticise that country because the UK is literally a dump, but don't worry about that because it's a private wealth fund, but even if it was Qatar then you can't criticise them because you literally live in a world where people are exploited, so you're no better. But it's not the country anyway.
 
BD said:
It's not a country buying us but even if it was, you can't criticise that country because the UK is literally a dump, but don't worry about that because it's a private wealth fund, but even if it was Qatar then you can't criticise them because you literally live in a world where people are exploited, so you're no better. But it's not the country anyway.
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It’s a better bid than INEOS because they are richer, because it’s clearly the state, but if you wanna compare with Murdoch then he’s a crook and it’s not the state but in fact Jassim buying us. And if you think INEOS is better because they are much richer than Jassim, think again because it’s backed by the state of Qatar.
But people are Islamophobic being against Jassim because he’s not responsible for the state.
And something about the Us, UK, Iraq and slavery.
 
The thing is a lot of people are going to look like absolute hyppocrites when we are bought out by Qatar and they are still watching and attending games.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It’s a better bid than INEOS because they are richer, because it’s clearly the state, but if you wanna compare with Murdoch then he’s a crook and it’s not the state but in fact Jassim buying us. And if you think INEOS is better because they are much richer than Jassim, think again because it’s backed by the state of Qatar.
But people are Islamophobic being against Jassim because he’s not responsible for the state.
And something about the Us, UK, Iraq and slavery.
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I think it's fair to acknowledge that some of the criticism is rooted in xenophobia.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It’s anti competitive bullshit, everything about goes against what “sport” is supposed to be. As @Mockney so beautifully put it, when any club overspends, they should have no choice but to loan a Weghorst in January, any state ownership makes a mockery of that.
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I don't think it's always about who spends the most money to be successful. Obviously, helps in a big way. City and PSG have not yet won the Champions League. United have spent nearly as much as City and PSG but we've been way behind over the last decade in performances and trophy count. It's about the right recruitment and having the best in class to be successful. If Qatar or Ineos start to mismanage finances on recruitment we would be no different to the last decade.

There are also checks and balances in play. If Financial Fair Play Regulations are implemented properly this should prevent clubs from spending more than they earn in the pursuit of success. Then again as a fan, I am emotionally attached and wouldn't think about where the success has come about when celebrating success. You can call me out on my views which I accept will not be palatable to everyone.
 
Sly1 said:
And how many have died or suffered through your country 's colonization of others; imperialism; human torture; coup d'etat setups; war and selling of weapons?

If you Iive in the glasshouse...
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Is the UK trying to buy the club?
 
LordSpud said:
The thing is a lot of people are going to look like absolute hyppocrites when we are bought out by Qatar and they are still watching and attending games.
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because they criticised Qatar?

I am doing that and will still watch the games

don't see what the issue is
 
Wumminator said:
Sultan literally 100s of migrant workers have died being treated appallingly because of unsafe working conditions. Calling this out isn’t uncalled for.

There’s literally hundreds if not thousand of deaths at this regime’s hands. Is the official stance that we can’t mention that?

Is the most we can hope for LGBT+ users that they’re allowed in grounds? Is that it, I should be happy that our owners don’t banish women from the stadium?
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Are you proud of the UK’s current treatment of immigrants?
 
LordSpud said:
The thing is a lot of people are going to look like absolute hyppocrites when we are bought out by Qatar and they are still watching and attending games.
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Like the ones who've been attending matches and buying shirts since th Glazers took over? Everyone's going to reach a decision that's right for them and that has to be respected. There's no harm in continuing to discuss it though.
 
Pexbo said:
Unbelievable the rage in everyone of your posts
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You can't blame him. The same nonsensical point has been made countless times already "are you going to stop using oil? If not, you're a hypocrite. You live in the UK, a nation built on slaves. Hypocrite. Use an iPhone? Hypocrite". It's fecking dumb as feck and keeps getting peddled.
 
E-mal said:
How so, give me an example.
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Are you joking?

How many times has Pep had to defend Abu Dhabi, City’s ownership, their financial “practices” etc since joining? You barely see a mention of Man City or PsG anywhere without also including their ownership.

If you don’t want that, better to not be owned by a state.
 
E-mal said:
I find it self absorbing and hypocritical to be critical against the Qataris while living in a society that was built on the back of slaves.
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This is literally that "yet you participate in it. curious!" society meme.
 
Sultan said:
Prove otherwise. Not theories or assumptions.
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How do you expect a random person on a football forum to prove it? Do you take everything you are told by wealthy elites at face value? We're all using our critical faculties to assess the situation and make a judgement call. It's been well documented on this forum that the guy bidding doesn't have the sort of money needed to buy a club like United, nor does his dad.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Are you joking?

How many times has Pep had to defend Abu Dhabi, City’s ownership, their financial “practices” etc since joining? You barely see a mention of Man City or PsG anywhere without also including their ownership.

If you don’t want that, better to not be owned by a state.
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I’m genuinely interested:

1. What are you going to do to stop it?
2. What will you do when Qatar take over?
3. Will you celebrate any of our future achievements?
 
duffer said:
All of this is fine but isn't this exactly why people don't want state ownership? Be it Qatar, UK, US or whoever.
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Would you say Chelsea's purchase by Roman Abramovich was a state-sponsored purchase? He was within the inner circles of Putin and rich.
 
Sultan said:
He kept blaming the Tories and Boris for the deaths.

Can you please point me to any evidence that it's not a Qatari investor? That is being claimed by the bidder so until we have evidence to the contrary I will have to believe this to be the case instead of assumptions.
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You asked him if UK was a murderous nation. He said yes. You can't then complain he isn't answering the question.

This evidence that the Sheikh is spending 6 billion of his own money. That it isn't coming from the state. What would that evidence look like?

There is no such evidence available because you're talking about an undemocratic state. There's no transparency. No need whataoever for honesty. That's how it works.

I think you know this of course. It's just game playing really.

Unless you believe a relatively young guy whose chairman of a bank has somehow amassed billions from his own work.
 
redcucumber said:
How do you expect a random person on a football forum to prove it? Do you take everything you are told by wealthy elites at face value? We're all using our critical faculties to assess the situation and make a judgement call. It's been well documented on this forum that the guy bidding doesn't have the sort of money needed to buy a club like United, nor does his dad.
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Really? Have you read the multiple reports about his dad’s wealth that all reach the same conclusion, that his net worth as reported by western media are all grossly underestimated. Moreover, how do you know that it’s only Jassim and HBJ that are funding the 92 foundation, which is essentially an SPV created to purchase United?
 
Jam said:
Society has moved on, and can move further. Simply thinking “well, our ancestors did wrong therefore we cannot be progressive” has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Yes of course there’s a degree of hypocrisy of the West setting standards but it is an entirely new generation and there has been enlightenment in a lot of areas. The people who criticise Qatar are also deeply critical of the West’s history, and the West’s present shortcomings. Being born white in England doesn’t and shouldn’t prevent vocal criticisms.

Plenty of people agree with the spoils of colonialism being repatriated; as they should be. I’m of the opinion that most antiquities should be in their home nation and/or toured.

Nobody is forcing you to engage in politics around sport. You choosing to read and engage with it. Politics is everything. If you don’t want any part of that then just stick to the football - you aren’t being forced into this discourse.
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That shouldn't even be happening. When you have realized that what is in your possession is not yours then the honourable thing to do is to give it back, fair and simple.
But let's not derail the thread. The problem with people living in the "civilized world" and that includes me, is that failure to recognize that truth is not absolute but relative and progress is a continuum. You didn't just wake up one day to stop slavery or recognize the rights of LGBTQ. You had to go through a journey and I think it is fair to allow other nations go through that journey within the scope of their cultural and religious beliefs.
You are allowed vent and politicize everything about United but just know that it is not going to affect how the glazers make their decision. You have absolutely zero power in that regard but by all means do you.
 
redcucumber said:
How do you expect a random person on a football forum to prove it? Do you take everything you are told by wealthy elites at face value? We're all using our critical faculties to assess the situation and make a judgement call. It's been well documented on this forum that the guy bidding doesn't have the sort of money needed to buy a club like United, nor does his dad.
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Well documented on a football forum by random people. You've answered my question. :smirk:
 
Pexbo said:
I’m genuinely interested:

1. What are you going to do to stop it?
2. What will you do when Qatar take over?
3. Will you celebrate any of our future achievements?
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1. I think we as a fan base could make a difference yeah, and put pressure on to not accept state ownership. We won’t though because as we’ve seen here, the hypocrisy has been mind blowing, so many who were dead against state ownership are now bending over for the oil money.
It certainly helped with Murdoch and it absolutely made all the difference with the Super League.

2. I imagine I’ll just care less, much less.

3. Hard to know how one will react and much will depend on how we are run, are we like City and PsG taking the absolute piss out of the other 99.9% football clubs? One I know for certain is that us winning will feel much more hollow, winning a league again won’t feel hard earned like it did with Fergie. Do we have to loan Weghorst cause we spunked so much? Or do we go out in Jan and spend 150m?

All in all, I’d imagine us being run a la PsG or City would lead me further away from the club and I’ll certainly be less proud of out achievements as Liverpool’s could be and as Arsenal may be this season.

I think my Mum’s husband gives me a fair idea on how it’ll feel for me. A City ST holder for years and years pre takeover, even in the lower leagues. Kept his ST until the first title win but then gave it up, he celebrated the win but said it felt hollow really, just an inevitability. He doesn’t feel it’s the same club.
He still watches most games on tv, but he’s gone from hardcore blue to “meh”, he’s never really arsed when they lose nor too ecstatic when they win titles.
Weird to see the same person I know was at Wembley going nuts at Dikov’s goals and celebrated for a week, a division 2 play off, now not barely arsed when they win a Premier League title. :lol:
 
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Sultan said:
That horse bolted a long while back. If you don't want a nation to own the club then speak to your MP or write to the FA/Premiership and change ownership rules. Football needs the investment to keep the Premiership at the very top and have the best in class playing for our clubs. I would think very few people have your moral compass where business and money are concerned (That is if you're genuine in your stand).

Go on tell those working families earning a living and financially benefitting from Qatari investments to leave their work due to them being evil. You'll be well received.
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Well said.
 
duffer said:
No and I can't remember anyone ever suggesting it was. Everyone knew where he got his money from.
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If everyone knew where the money came from then why weren't no questions asked by Chelsea fans or the government? Dirty money is fine as long as it's to benefit our club or in the governments case brings investment and jobs.

The FA, government, Chelsea, City, and Newcastle fans have lost the right to criticise the prospective Qatari purchase on ethical grounds.
 
Liverpool will end up going down the exact same path, as will Spurs. Doesn’t make it right, but when the majority of our English rivals are all state owned or stupidly wealthy, it’ll make it easier to stomach somewhat possibly.
 
enghuei said:
Really? Have you read the multiple reports about his dad’s wealth that all reach the same conclusion, that his net worth as reported by western media are all grossly underestimated. Moreover, how do you know that it’s only Jassim and HBJ that are funding the 92 foundation, which is essentially an SPV created to purchase United?
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And all this opaqueness is supposed to make people feel better? The lack of clarity is precisely the reason why fans are currently uncomfortable. If it becomes widely acknowledged on the basis of more information coming out that the financing is definitely not state linked then happy days. I'll be all in. The mystery behind it all at the moment isn't helping and is the reason why we are having these huge debates about morality and ethics.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Do you know anything about Jassim? Do you even for a second believe he’s the one buying United?

And if United fans were against Murdoch because he was a “crook” as you put it, (although that throws up as many “phobia” questions regarding yourself), isn’t that more proof that United fans against these ownership models simply have a higher moral compass? And proof it doesn’t matter to them how rich someone is, or if they are Australian or Middle Eastern, they will simply stand up for what the believe the club for stand for:confused:

Aren’t you hereby disproving your own nonsensical “Islamophobia” rhetoric?
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What, a phobia of crooks or of phone hacking? I’m confused.
 
Sultan said:
That horse bolted a long while back. If you don't want a nation to own the club then speak to your MP or write to the FA/Premiership and change ownership rules. Football needs the investment to keep the Premiership at the very top and have the best in class playing for our clubs. I would think very few people have your moral compass where business and money are concerned (That is if you're genuine in your stand).

Go on tell those working families earning a living and financially benefitting from Qatari investments to leave their work due to them being evil. You'll be well received.
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The poster you’re responding to has admitted to financially benefiting from oil money himself so you’re talking to a brick wall there
 
redcucumber said:
And all this opaqueness is supposed to make people feel better? The lack of clarity is precisely the reason why fans are currently uncomfortable. If it becomes widely acknowledged on the basis of more information coming out that the financing is definitely not state linked then happy days. I'll be all in. The mystery behind it all at the moment isn't helping and is the reason why we are having these huge debates about morality and ethics.
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Why should they reveal so much at this stage of the sale process? Remember all bidders have signed NDA and they can’t reveal more information to the public unless it is approved by Raine and the Glazers. The fact that both Jassim and Ineos team have only released one statement each so far is the proof for that.
 
Sultan said:
If everyone knew where the money came from then why weren't no questions asked by Chelsea fans or the government? Dirty money is fine as long as it's to benefit our club or in the governments case brings investment and jobs.

The FA, government, Chelsea, City, and Newcastle fans have lost the right to criticise the prospective Qatari purchase on ethical grounds.
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You're probably better off aiming that post at someone who has criticised the prospective Qatari purchase on ethical grounds. I have not.

The only bidder I have criticised is Ratcliffe, because of his behaviour when he tried to buy Chelsea.
 
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