Lewis had nothing to do with Crashgate if anything they would disqualify Renault from the race giving Hamilton 6 more points
F1 2023 Season
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Its nothing against hamilton, more than max mosley and bernie knew crashgate was done deliberately during the 08 season before hamilton was crowned as champion.
To avoid a scandel and protect the sport they decided not to do anything. Sound familar?
"...At the time, Massa led calls for the FIA to cancel the result of the Singapore GP, but the governing body’s statutes made that impossible as the classification from each season is set in stone under the International Sporting Code once the FIA Awards ceremony is complete.
Furthermore, the FIA’s investigation into the events of Singapore did not uncover any evidence that suggested Alonso and the wider Renault team knew of the crash plan or assisted in its execution, so the governing body felt it would have been unfair to change the result.
However, Massa thinks there are grounds to review things once again in the wake of recent comments from Ecclestone suggesting that he and the FIA were aware of the rules breach before the end of the 2008 season – within the time when action could have been taken to alter the result.
In an interview with the F1-Insider website last month, Ecclestone said he and then FIA president Max Mosley knew of the situation “during the 2008 season”.
He added: “We decided not to do anything for now. We wanted to protect the sport and save it from a huge scandal. That's why I used angelic tongues to persuade my former driver Nelson Piquet to keep calm for the time being.
“Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification after the FIA awards ceremony at the end of the year was untouchable. So Hamilton was presented with the trophy and everything was fine.
“We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions.
“That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton...”
Basically according to another team, RedBull turned the engines down by 10 bhp for australia GP.
Think Ferrari have confused Red Bull with themselves. Except it wasnt 10bhp it was 50.
Are they doing it to avoid getting hammered for being too far ahead eventually ?
Possibly, or there is an issue they are trying to manage.
Maybe trying to lower the torque for the gearbox?
It's very obvious Red Bull have dialled it back, Mercedes did the same in 2014. The way the sport is now, if you get too far ahead they will do something about it, it's within their own interests to win races by 10-15 seconds to give the illusion of competition.
Max gapped Hamilton 2 seconds in about 5 corners on Sunday, albeit Hamilton went immediately conservative once passed but still that's not normal. I think they legitimately have a second on the field and probably more.
Max gapped Hamilton 2 seconds in about 5 corners on Sunday, albeit Hamilton went immediately conservative once passed but still that's not normal. I think they legitimately have a second on the field and probably more.
I mean, it is kinda funny after all those comments from Hamilton fans on how Max's first title comes with an asterisk because the FIA messed up (so beyond Max / Red Bull control). The irony. But I'm sure nothing will come of this. Ecclestone is an absolute idiot for saying those things in the interview but it's been 15 years. Move on.
World famous Hamilton sympathiser Bernie Ecclestone, probably alongside his mates Jackie Stewart and Nelson Piquet Sr interviewed by renowned Hamilton lover Jonathon McEvoy. /s
Singapore wasn't the last race, not even one of the last 3. People who try to create a parallel to 2021 must be no older than 9 and given too much Red Bull at young age by mommy.
It is ironic, but also shows history repeats itself in F1, when you dont want to take away the first championship of your next big thing, i.e. hamilton 08 and verstappen 21. Agreed its been too long and time to move on.
Bernie is not a fan of hamilton. Schmacher on the other hand he loves.
Sorry, I thought my sarcasm dripped through enough there.
Thats probably just me not being able to read. Day three into easter holidays with the kids
Thats probably just me not being able to read. Day three into easter holidays with the kids
I have a 5 week old, I don't understand the concept of time anymore, I can relate.
Hamilton made a mistake after the pass that cost him a second.
I didn't see a mistake on the onboard someone posted on reddit, the one that showed the DRS overspeed of the Red Bull. Can't seem to find it now though.
Just looking at the lap times Lewis was 0.9s slower than on the lap previous and lap after.
Max was 1.5s quicker than on the lap previous and after. And that was the only lap after Albon's crash that he got to use all 4 DRS zones. So 4 DRS + overtake mode + flat out = 1.5s. Probably in the range of 0.5-0.7s a lap faster if driving flat out with no DRS.
Lewis very visibly conserved as soon as he was passed so his lap time was always going to be less, he dropped a lot of the gap to Alonso too so probably over did it and got back on it.
He overtook Lewis on the back straight so in fairness he would have pulled a massive gap on the next DRS zone alone with that incredible thing they have.
When Max brakes twice as early going into a corner with Hamilton behind him you know he's taking it easy. The counter to this is that it wouldn't have made sense to hold Perez back, he came through but it took him a while.
Hopefully we start seeing the first set of major upgrades coming through the next couple of races and it squeezes up the field.
Hopefully we start seeing the first set of major upgrades coming through the next couple of races and it squeezes up the field.
Stefano Domenicali wants to revolutionise Formula 1's weekend format, sparking a debate so fierce that world champion Max Verstappen has threatened to quit the sport over the issue.
The Formula 1 president said before the Australian Grand Prix that he is a "supporter of the cancellation of free practice sessions", adding that practice was something the public "doesn't like" and hinting at more sprint weekends in the future.
Domenicali then confirmed in an interview with Sky Sports F1 that he is not looking to completely abandon all practice sessions, but says it would be "wrong" not to consider changes to the existing format.
Sprint weekends were introduced in 2021, changing the format of some of the races by moving the qualifying event to Friday and giving fans a shorter race on Saturdays to decide the starting order for Sunday's Grand Prix.
What are the proposed plans for sprint weekends?
Most F1 weekends see three practice sessions - two on Friday and a further one on Saturday morning - ahead of Qualifying and the traditional Sunday race.
It is understood that the preferred new format would involve just one practice session. There would then be two qualifying sessions, a sprint and a Grand Prix.
Broken down, this would see the following schedule play out:
Friday:
AM - Practice
PM - Qualifying for the Grand Prix on Sunday
Saturday:
AM - One-lap qualifying for the sprint race
PM - Sprint
Sunday:
A good old-fashioned Grand Prix
While these plans are yet to be confirmed, the drivers have shared their opinions on the idea.
Incredibly, Red Bull's Max Verstappen has suggested he "won't be around for too long" if more sprint races come into the F1 weekend.
"Even if you change the format, I don't find that is in the DNA of Formula 1 to do these kind of sprint races," he said.
"I hope there won't be too many changes, otherwise I won't be around for too long.
"I am not a fan of it at all. When we do all that kind of stuff, the weekend becomes very intense and we already do a lot of races. But it is not the right way to go about it.
"I understand that they want to have every day exciting, but then I think it's better to just reduce the weekend - only race the Saturday and Sunday.
"And if you start adding even more stuff, it's not worth it for me. I'm not enjoying that."
Formula 1's weekend format: Drivers, fans and Martin Brundle debate Stefano Domenicali's plans | F1 News (skysports.com)
The Formula 1 president said before the Australian Grand Prix that he is a "supporter of the cancellation of free practice sessions", adding that practice was something the public "doesn't like" and hinting at more sprint weekends in the future.
Domenicali then confirmed in an interview with Sky Sports F1 that he is not looking to completely abandon all practice sessions, but says it would be "wrong" not to consider changes to the existing format.
Sprint weekends were introduced in 2021, changing the format of some of the races by moving the qualifying event to Friday and giving fans a shorter race on Saturdays to decide the starting order for Sunday's Grand Prix.
What are the proposed plans for sprint weekends?
Most F1 weekends see three practice sessions - two on Friday and a further one on Saturday morning - ahead of Qualifying and the traditional Sunday race.
It is understood that the preferred new format would involve just one practice session. There would then be two qualifying sessions, a sprint and a Grand Prix.
Broken down, this would see the following schedule play out:
Friday:
AM - Practice
PM - Qualifying for the Grand Prix on Sunday
Saturday:
AM - One-lap qualifying for the sprint race
PM - Sprint
Sunday:
A good old-fashioned Grand Prix
While these plans are yet to be confirmed, the drivers have shared their opinions on the idea.
Incredibly, Red Bull's Max Verstappen has suggested he "won't be around for too long" if more sprint races come into the F1 weekend.
"Even if you change the format, I don't find that is in the DNA of Formula 1 to do these kind of sprint races," he said.
"I hope there won't be too many changes, otherwise I won't be around for too long.
"I am not a fan of it at all. When we do all that kind of stuff, the weekend becomes very intense and we already do a lot of races. But it is not the right way to go about it.
"I understand that they want to have every day exciting, but then I think it's better to just reduce the weekend - only race the Saturday and Sunday.
"And if you start adding even more stuff, it's not worth it for me. I'm not enjoying that."
Formula 1's weekend format: Drivers, fans and Martin Brundle debate Stefano Domenicali's plans | F1 News (skysports.com)
For as long as car repairs count to cost caps and engine parts are limited to 3 per season, sprints will remain completely pointless
Kind of funny comparing a blatant fix in the final race of the season which decided the whole season with a mid season race, that, if anything, would've awarded the eventually championship winner more benefit (if Renault got disqualified).
Not a blatant fix as that would imply he gained something from it, but a big mistake by the race director which cost him his job. Both races ultimately decided the championship. In both cases F1/FIA made huge "mistakes". And I don't know where you're getting the idea that Renault would be disqualified from.
Here's what Ecclestone said: “We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions. That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.”
I can see why Massa want to explore the possibility of a legal challenge.
But what are is chances of actual getting the race result nullified, if it was down to Bernie and his crew I think he would get his title, the FIA should have cancelled the race but FIA being the FIA.
If he does go ahead, it will be a shit storm for FIA, well everybody and the sport in general would not come of this smelling of roses.
If Lewis is stripped of his title, could it be the straw that broke the camel's back, could Lewis just walk away from F1.
But what are is chances of actual getting the race result nullified, if it was down to Bernie and his crew I think he would get his title, the FIA should have cancelled the race but FIA being the FIA.
If he does go ahead, it will be a shit storm for FIA, well everybody and the sport in general would not come of this smelling of roses.
If Lewis is stripped of his title, could it be the straw that broke the camel's back, could Lewis just walk away from F1.
Massa should go for it of course but wouldn't expect anything from it.
He might just have to make do with being an asterisk non-champion.
He might just have to make do with being an asterisk non-champion.
I agree with max and for a rare occurance hobbers, that cost cap and limitations of parts used arent mutually compatible.
I find myself in the same boat
Honestly don't understand this new sprint format. It's even worse than the last one. Domenicali is tearing down F1's foundations. F1 is about building the fastest car possible. The budget cap has already put a huge damper on that. And now this? Practice sessions are essential to get the cars setup properly, to gather data on how to improve the car, to test new components, etc.. Not to mention that removing practice sessions further limits opportunities for up and coming drivers to gain experience. The new format puts even more stress on the drivers as well. And for what? So it's more attractive for dopamine addicted new fans with the attention span of a peanut? So F1 gets more views over the weekend and thus more money? Domenicali is just greedy and it's hurting the sport.
And have the 16-20 place lose by 5 seconds per lap at Qualifying, because they can't afford that much engineers than top 3 cars can?
I don't want the F1 get back into HRT or Minardi era.
It's essentially to give some relative and competitive action over the weekend for the promoters rather than 45 mins on Saturday and 2hrs on a Sunday. Liberty can in turn charge more for it as well but feedback to them from promoters quite clearly is that the current format isn't right. The sprint races we currently have aren't the completely right idea as it's essentially just the first stint of a proper race, and teams are incentivised to put all of their efforts in to manage a Sunday, so unsurprisingly we have a boring format. I don't know what the answer is, but standing still on the current format isn't the long term answer for me.
Practice sessions are boring for the viewers and are nothing more than sessions for honing in on setup, we've seen that the more exciting races are the ones where teams have had limited running in free practice and don't have time to tinker or fine tune setup. Less practices, in my opinion, would lead to better races ultimately. The 'opportunities' for young drivers had to be enforced last year to teams to run some on practice sessions so even then teams wouldn't run junior drivers if they didn't have to. That said, sessions to test setup and parts makes sense but we certainly don't need the length of sessions we have.
To put it into context, over 53% of the time the cars are on track in any race weekend is during a practice session rather anything competitive. The balance isn't there for me personally.
This is like complaining a football team spends more time in training than playing competitive games. Well of course they fecking do. Here atleast we are blessed with watching the training process.
I disagree with you here, in anything you do in sport , there is always more practice than actual competitive action, even more so in F1.
I find the whole weekend far from boring.
I would rather watch a practice session where teams are testing developments than a pointless sprint race where none of the top teams are trying. All with their engines turned down
Twice in a day I agree with you
If they have to persist with the sprint race crap, why not do 2x practice on friday, start the saturday with qualifying then do the sprint race after, and the regular race on sunday?
To add extra excitement for a Saturday sprint race you could have the finishing order of the last race to start the sprint. You get straight into the action on Saturday, the differences from track to track could throw up more overtaking as those not so good the last race start behind on a track that suits them more on the next.
For DNF etc I would just do it in the order they stopped. A crash perhaps the one that caused it goes further back.
Not saying I want extra races or sprint races but I'd be intrigued to watch that on a Saturday.
For DNF etc I would just do it in the order they stopped. A crash perhaps the one that caused it goes further back.
Not saying I want extra races or sprint races but I'd be intrigued to watch that on a Saturday.
Ferrari getting their excuses in early and moving development of parts up whilst answering questions on the reliability of their engines. Ferrari haven’t developed enough and Mercedes started wrong.
I’m not sure where I stand with sprint races but I’m sure we had one last year on a track that you couldn’t overtake on - that’s a big no or maybe they should force a pit stop but that depends on how strong the undercut is so this isn’t easy to get right in modern F1.
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Formula 1: Red Bull budget cap penalty 'very light', says Ferrari's Frederic Vasseur
"I am still convinced the penalty was very light," Vasseur said in a news conference on Thursday.
"If you consider we will improve [the car's performance by] a bit less than one second over the season in terms of aero, [and] you get a penalty of one tenth of this, it is [equivalent to a loss of] 0.1secs.
"As it is not a linear progression, it is probably less, and as you are allowed to spend this money somewhere else, on weight saving and so on, for me the penalty is marginal.
"I don't want to say they didn't do a good job because, honestly, they did a very good job on the car. I am not trying to find an excuse at all, but if you ask me if the penalty is too light, I say yes."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65209594
I’m not sure where I stand with sprint races but I’m sure we had one last year on a track that you couldn’t overtake on - that’s a big no or maybe they should force a pit stop but that depends on how strong the undercut is so this isn’t easy to get right in modern F1.
—
Formula 1: Red Bull budget cap penalty 'very light', says Ferrari's Frederic Vasseur
"I am still convinced the penalty was very light," Vasseur said in a news conference on Thursday.
"If you consider we will improve [the car's performance by] a bit less than one second over the season in terms of aero, [and] you get a penalty of one tenth of this, it is [equivalent to a loss of] 0.1secs.
"As it is not a linear progression, it is probably less, and as you are allowed to spend this money somewhere else, on weight saving and so on, for me the penalty is marginal.
"I don't want to say they didn't do a good job because, honestly, they did a very good job on the car. I am not trying to find an excuse at all, but if you ask me if the penalty is too light, I say yes."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/65209594