So I see the tories doing that and I think "how pathetic" but when my own side (if that's actually what Labour are nowadays) do the same thing, I'm supposed to think, "oh well done guys you've laid one on them there"? Well, i don't. I just think it's a pathetic argument designed to appeal to the lowest possible base.
Westminster Politics
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So I see the tories doing that and I think "how pathetic" but when my own side (if that's actually what Labour are nowadays) do the same thing, I'm supposed to think, "oh well done guys you've laid one on them there"? Well, i don't. I just think it's a pathetic argument designed to appeal to the lowest possible base.
100% this!
Labour cannot fix everything, we are so broken as a society and an economic state that they’ll perform miracles if they even manage to successfully slow the rot that this Tory shambles has created.
But then we have ideological purists (of which I used to be a member) who are seemingly willing to keep Tories in power because Labour won’t promise a return to the EU, magically hire 200k more NHS staff and sort out every issue with the flick of a magic wand!
Re Labour, until there is a better option, get in there and vote this Tory party, their sleaze, corruption, lies, disinformation and arrogance into oblivion
You’re completely missing the point. We want to be able to support a political party that doesn’t act like the conservatives. It’s not about tribalism and saying “it’s ok because it’s our side” it’s about basic decency. What’s the point in supporting labour if we get a reskinned Tory party?
So not only an objectionable ad, but really stupid too.
Exactly. This kind of shit is the gutter politics I find it hard to support, I want the people leading the country to be better than this. Nuanced discussion? Nah, just basically call Sunak a rapist enabler.
Not saying its right, but the thing that gets me is that Tories make unsubstantiated claims about Labour and Labour politicians all the time and are rarely called out for it. As soon as Labour do it, they MUST prove their claims and be asked if they stand by them.
Sunak says Labour support criminal gangs, human traffickers etc. all the time in PMQ's with no evidence whatsoever and no one bats an eyelid
“You know the problem with British politics right now? Labour!”
It’s such a joke, for 13yrs the Tories have been pissing on us all and telling us it’s raining!
They got the election in 2010, they pushed austerity on us, then they got Brexit, then they got Boris, then Lettuce with her ‘real Tory budget’ that blew 30bn out of our economy, now they have Sunak.
They scammed their way through the pandemic, lining the pockets of their mates whilst letting us all fecking die. But Labour made one shitty attack ad so they’re all just the fecking same so let’s stick around with those pissing on us and prove that we’re happy to let them off the hook no matter what they do to us!
It’s such a joke, for 13yrs the Tories have been pissing on us all and telling us it’s raining!
They got the election in 2010, they pushed austerity on us, then they got Brexit, then they got Boris, then Lettuce with her ‘real Tory budget’ that blew 30bn out of our economy, now they have Sunak.
They scammed their way through the pandemic, lining the pockets of their mates whilst letting us all fecking die. But Labour made one shitty attack ad so they’re all just the fecking same so let’s stick around with those pissing on us and prove that we’re happy to let them off the hook no matter what they do to us!
Personally I’d vote the Tories into oblivion first, show them they lying and cheating is not acceptable. If that means labour get in so be it. Hopefully by the time a next GE comes around they have either pulled their socks up or there is a workable alternative
but I certainly wouldn’t leave this shower of Tories in power just because
If you reward shitty beheviour there's no incentive for them to change next time, is there?
So because of a tweet we let the Tories off the hook for 13yrs of ‘shitty behaviour’?
I generally agree with those who are against holding their noses while voting, and it's actually a very interesting debate no matter how sure people pretend to be about their own stance. The thing now though is that we are not talking about "shitty behaviour", we are talking about a government and a party who are actively and purposely destroying the country. This needs to be absolutely clear before people make their decision.
I can't stand it when a politician uses "clearly" when what they say is impenetrable bollocks. It's bloody Orwellian newspeak.
This line of thinking has been amply discussed in the other thread.
I know, but when people spout shite like that it needs a reply.
You’ll let the Tories destroy the NHS, shovel shit in our waterways, pull billions out from our pockets to their donors, but Labour make one crass ad and suddenly it proves their absolutely no different.
It’s pathetic & simply showing the gaslighting is working!
So you’re ok to let one of the worst collections of individuals in the history of the country to continue in power?
The people who enable the Tories are the people that vote for them, instead of getting angry at the people moving away from labour either call out the shitty behaviour of the Labour party that is causing it, or the people that vote for the Tories and actively damage the country. If you want to endorse what Labour are doing, go for it, that's your prerogative.
See above.
I'd rather the Conservatives out, to be honest.
If that helps you sleep at night then go right ahead, but unless you’re tactically voting to oust your Tory MP then splitting the vote will only help then remain in government.
They won’t give a shit how it happens, so whilst they get another 5yrs of fecking our country dry, I guess you’ll be able to hold your head up high because you didn’t vote Labour, because of a crass advert.
No one gives a shit how they win.
The fact that instead of trying to find ways to encourage people to vote for Labour, or encourage Labour to be more appealing, you're on a forum trying to guilt trip and shame people into voting on them should be a big fecking neon sign for you, but apparently it isn't.
I’m fecking desperate to boot out these corrupt Tories from office!!!
I’d love for Labour to be better than Starmer right now but they aren’t.
Unfortunately they’re the only viable option in this FPTP two-party system. So you have two options:
- believe that a party headed by a former head of the CPS will have more integrity than the incumbent government
- decide that you’re happy for the Tories to win again as long as you can hold your head up high and say you voted for a party that had no earthly chance of gaining power
Again, I’d love for Labour to be the most honourable version they’ve ever been, but in this climate I’ll take what we have.
I’ve offered policy that they’ve offered / are offering and it gets turned around by those with bad faith, and the suggestion that their holding MPs to account is some crazed attempt to purge the left out of it.
If you can’t see that a party that offers more beneficial policy & holds their MPs to greater account is better than this horrific government that’s looked to tear away our workers and human rights, then I’m done with you.
Starmer is a proven liar with a track record as bad as Boris Johnson. He reneged on his 10 pledges for Labour leadership and will really do exactly the same on any "policy" announcements when he is PM. I'm afraid he can't be trusted. If you can't see that then I don't know what additional evidence you need.
He's also dangerously authoritarian which should be a red flag for a future PM.
So you ask me to offer policy and when I do you just say, “I don’t believe he’ll do that”
Absolute joke!
Meanwhile you’ll let this cabal that’s looking to strip back our rights and return the country to the Victorian era run amok !
This is exactly why I ask in my thread what the fecking point is!
We let the perfect be the enemy of the good whilst letting the ghouls run amok & carry on with their corruption.
Nothing will change until we acknowledge that, in order to change we need to crawl before we can walk, then walk before we can run.
We let the perfect be the enemy of the good whilst letting the ghouls run amok & carry on with their corruption.
Nothing will change until we acknowledge that, in order to change we need to crawl before we can walk, then walk before we can run.
I think the positive is that the points of view often expressed on this forum don't translate to what you will see from the majority of the public. Polling is still very positive for change.
I stand corrected, I forgot scousersI feel that the Labour Party can evolve in the right way should they get in. They have some competent people on the opposition bench.
however I feel with this collection of Tories, what you see is what you get. There’s no evolving in a good way for them. You know what they get up too. A vote to keep them in power is simply shouting yourself in the foot
You really need to stop enabling this bunch and get them out. Sure you may have to vote for someone else you don’t like but they can always change the leader. The Tories have changed leader multiple times and everyone has been an absolute disaster
I think you're being disingenuous here by trying to make out that that tweet is the only reason why people dislike current Labour. Will I hold my nose and vote for them? Not sure. Probably, to be honest. But that will be more through hatred of the Tories than any appreciation of the Labour Party.
I personally wouldn’t vote Labour currently because it would be a vindication of how awful they are at the moment. It would be seen as “see, you win by being a Tory lite party”… so that is all we will get served up in future. Tory A team and Tory B team. It’s a shame because I live in a seat which has a very reasonable chance to turn red for the first time ever.
I don’t care to be frank if it sounds disingenuous- look at what the Tories have done to the country and it’s people in the last 13yrs and then try and suggest that people claiming that Labour would be ‘just as bad’ aren’t somehow (I’ll be generous and say) ‘forgetful’ of the full extent of Tory corruption and destruction.
Well then be ready to spend the next 5yrs whinging about the next Tory government but take solace that you, ‘voted with your heart’.
So, Labour are bad so I can’t vote for them which means that the worse lot will get to carry on as if nothing happened!
Tbh there is very little difference between the two parties. “Left wing” policy from Labour is meaningless as they’ve backtracked on everything from the leadership contest. So any moral uproar is just pointless.
Vote for whoever, it’s not going to have much effect on the problems the country is facing.
Vote for whoever, it’s not going to have much effect on the problems the country is facing.
As things currently are I'll be voting for Liberal Democrats next time around. The country does need rid of the Tories but Starmer and Labour haven't shown they're capable of anything resembling leadership either. The best hope is a hung parliament where one of them needs another party to gain a majority, and keep a lid on any of the more insane policies they might want to enact. Realistically Labour plus Lib Dems would be most likely, but a term of government where nothing much gets done is better than the shite either of them would love to do if they got a simple majority.
Are the Lib Dems likely to win in your constituency? Are the 1st or 2nd t9 the Tories? If not you are wasting your vote.
"The tories got in in 2019 because of Corbyn. If they get in in 2024, it's because of YOU!"
It's never Centrists' fault. It's always the Left's.
It's never Centrists' fault. It's always the Left's.
The likelihood is I wouldn’t vote but yeah… I mean, I’d spend the next 5 years moaning about either shit Government.
Neither the Tories or Labour are offering meaningful change. Just a continuation of the the sort of policies that have screwed our country for most of my adult life. When Labour get in and don’t significantly improve things for most people… what do we think will happen? I suspect plenty of anger, disillusionment and the rise of a populist right-wing.