Transgender rights discussion

Ignore him. Every time you engage with his argument that "men with boners pretend to be trans so they can rape women in toilets" you give it some form of validity. The biggest problem with this entire argument from the get go is that it was flung out by a bunch of trans hating cuntos who were looking for an excuse to persecute an already persecuted group.

"Men with boners pretending to be trans" aren't the big threat to women. It's simply just straight cis-men with boners that are the problem, and the numbers back that up. To claim that men need to pretend to be trans in order to sexually assault a woman ignores the reality that sick, subhuman feckers have been doing it for decades without having to transition.
 
Allowing men to enter ladies changing rooms simply because they declare a right to be there is fine then.

This isn't about trans people. It's about cis heterosexual men taking advantage of the fact those who might raise concern about seeing a man in a ladies changing room might decide not to for fear of being labelled "transphoic'

Entitled to safe spaces full of vulnerable women should not be automatically granted purely because someone declares their right to be there.

The mental gymnastics involved in declaring that statement transphobic is a sign of the state of the whole debate
 
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Mr Pigeon said:
Ignore him. Every time you engage with his argument that "men with boners pretend to be trans so they can rape women in toilets" you give it some form of validity. The biggest problem with this entire argument from the get go is that it was flung out by a bunch of trans hating cuntos who were looking for an excuse to persecute an already persecuted group.

"Men with boners pretending to be trans" aren't the big threat to women. It's simply just straight cis-men with boners that are the problem, and the numbers back that up. To claim that men need to pretend to be trans in order to sexually assault a woman ignores the reality that sick, subhuman feckers have been doing it for decades without having to transition.
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Don't ignore him. Eventually he is going to cross the line too far, or too many times, and he's going to get himself banned. These ones always do.
 
I don't think its remotely possible for a man to become a woman or vice versa, its a fearsome reduction of what those two categories mean in human society to think surgery and hormones can do that, but if you want to be called whatever that's fine with me, I'll call you that.
 
Are we going to get the point where we have Male's, Female's and Tran's divisions?

I'm cool with that, but is the trans division going to be split up?
 
stw2022 said:
Allowing men to enter ladies changing rooms simply because they declare a right to be there is fine then.

This isn't about trans people. It's about cis heterosexual men taking advantage of the fact those who might raise concern about seeing a man in a ladies changing room might decide not to for fear of being labelled "transphoic'

Entitled to safe spaces full of vulnerable women should not be automatically granted purely because someone declares their right to be there.

The mental gymnastics involved in declaring that statement transphobic is a sign of the state of the whole debate
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I'm comfortable using a bathroom, changing room etc with someone that has a penis regardless of what they identify as. I just close my door. I'm not comfortable being around perverts and based on your argument, you're saying all males who are capable of an erection is a pervert and want to exploit women and their safe space but that's just not true.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
I'm comfortable using a bathroom, changing room etc with someone that has a penis regardless of what they identify as. I just close my door. I'm not comfortable being around perverts and based on your argument, you're saying all males who are capable of an erection is a pervert and want to exploit women and their safe space but that's just not true.
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His point is badly expressed but I do agree with "TERFs" that cis women are a unique category who should have their own spaces.
 
DJ Jeff said:
His point is badly expressed but I do agree with "TERFs" that cis women are a unique category who should have their own spaces.
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But if you're going to sexual assault someone in a women's bathroom why not just walk in and do it? It's a completely nonsensical argument this whole "heterosexual men identifying as women for half an hour to sexually assault someone".

Plenty of places have unisex bathrooms without any issues.
 
Maagge said:
But if you're going to sexual assault someone in a women's bathroom why not just walk in and do it? It's a completely nonsensical argument this whole "heterosexual men identifying as women for half an hour to sexually assault someone".

Plenty of places have unisex bathrooms without any issues.
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Yeah, the risk of sexual assault by trans women in toilets is wildly overstated and a classic trope of this culture war.

Having said that, there is going to a transition period where a lot more thought will need to go into gendered spaces. Changing rooms in gyms/pools will probably need to all have individual cubicles as it’s not unreasonable for some women (and or parents of young girls) to prefer to not be exposed to strangers’ male genitalia when changing for a swim or a workout. The current, everyone get changed in a big room together, approach will need to be phased out.

Obviously not an issue in toilets, which already use cubicles.
 
Maagge said:
But if you're going to sexual assault someone in a women's bathroom why not just walk in and do it? It's a completely nonsensical argument this whole "heterosexual men identifying as women for half an hour to sexually assault someone".

Plenty of places have unisex bathrooms without any issues.
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Oh I'm not concerned about sexual assault by trans people as a reason for cis women spaces, that happens anywhere and everywhere, I just think cis women do deserve their own spaces and they're entitled to protect them, including changing rooms in pools or whatever.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, the risk of sexual assault by trans women in toilets is wildly overstated and a classic trope of this culture war.

Having said that, there is going to a transition period where a lot more thought will need to go into gendered spaces. Changing rooms in gyms/pools will probably need to all have individual cubicles as it’s not unreasonable for some women (and or parents of young girls) to prefer to not be exposed to strangers’ male genitalia when changing for a swim or a workout. The current, everyone get changed in a big room together, approach will need to be phased out.

Obviously not an issue in toilets, which already use cubicles.
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What is frustrating is that the current Equality Act already allows for those kinds of judgments and decisions to be made. Yet the UK Government is acting as if we need to define sex as "biological sex", which will cause numerous more problems than the status quo.
 
stw2022 said:
Allowing men to enter ladies changing rooms simply because they declare a right to be there is fine then.

This isn't about trans people. It's about cis heterosexual men taking advantage of the fact those who might raise concern about seeing a man in a ladies changing room might decide not to for fear of being labelled "transphoic'

Entitled to safe spaces full of vulnerable women should not be automatically granted purely because someone declares their right to be there.

The mental gymnastics involved in declaring that statement transphobic is a sign of the state of the whole debate
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You. Still. Haven't. Provided. A. Single. Piece. Of. Evidence. For. Your. Claim.

How many times does this need to be said to you before you finally respond to it?!
 
nimic said:
Don't ignore him. Eventually he is going to cross the line too far, or too many times, and he's going to get himself banned. These ones always do.
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He's playing 4D chess whilst the rest of us are playing normal chess where the King and Queen both walk into women's bathrooms with erections.
 
Maagge said:
But if you're going to sexual assault someone in a women's bathroom why not just walk in and do it? It's a completely nonsensical argument this whole "heterosexual men identifying as women for half an hour to sexually assault someone".

Plenty of places have unisex bathrooms without any issues.
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I’ve worked with charities who have worked with women who have been abused, both physically and sexually to the point where the sight of a penis is genuinely traumatic for them. I’ve met a daughter who was abused over years by her dad (who had a moustache) that she was genuinely terrified of men with moustaches. Trauma manifests in different ways for different people but women only spaces, whether that be a refuge or a centre should literally be penis free.
 
The furore surrounding trans people and them assaulting others is especially ridiculous when constant stories come out about cis straight men sexually assaulting numerous people and children.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
He's playing 4D chess whilst the rest of us are playing normal chess where the King and Queen both walk into women's bathrooms with erections.
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Not at all, he's merely saying that once your Benoni's on the board you have to fianchetto your bishop.
 
Schmiznurf said:
The furore surrounding trans people and them assaulting others is especially ridiculous when constant stories come out about cis straight men sexually assaulting numerous people and children.
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It's an entirely made up problem, because conservatives and reactionaries need to have a new group to demonize. I doubt that the people who are most up in arms about "trans activists" have ever actually met a trans person.
 
Schmiznurf said:
The furore surrounding trans people and them assaulting others is especially ridiculous when constant stories come out about cis straight men sexually assaulting numerous people and children.
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It straight up stinks of ignorance. Like when the pushback towards gay people was stuff along the lines of “but what if this weirdo tries to shag me, you know, because he’s a weirdo?” It’s just another case of inserting sexuality into something inherently non-sexual because they don’t understand it. All trans people must therefore be perverts.
 
stw2022 said:
Entitled to safe spaces full of vulnerable women should not be automatically granted purely because someone declares their right to be there.

The mental gymnastics involved in declaring that statement transphobic is a sign of the state of the whole debate
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They don't, it's granted generally because science and law declares their right to be there. Two things that spend quite a lot of time, energy, research, education and understanding when coming to their opinion, unlike you.

The only one doing mental gymnastics here is you.
 
The Corinthian said:
I’ve worked with charities who have worked with women who have been abused, both physically and sexually to the point where the sight of a penis is genuinely traumatic for them. I’ve met a daughter who was abused over years by her dad (who had a moustache) that she was genuinely terrified of men with moustaches. Trauma manifests in different ways for different people but women only spaces, whether that be a refuge or a centre should literally be penis free.
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Do we need to make bathrooms for women vagina-free as well? Just in case someone using the facilities was assaulted by a lesbian?

I'm know I'm being course, but what exactly is the percentage of "women" using bathrooms that have a phobia of knobs? Is it enough to say "feck off" to every single person who identifies as female being able to use the facilities they should be able to use? We're not talking about some rapist bloke who's decided to put on some makeup and a dress here.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Do we need to make bathrooms for women vagina-free as well? Just in case someone using the facilities was assaulted by a lesbian?

I'm know I'm being course, but what exactly is the percentage of "women" using bathrooms that have a phobia of knobs? Is it enough to say "feck off" to every single person who identifies as female being able to use the facilities they should be able to use? We're not talking about some rapist bloke who's decided to put on some makeup and a dress here.
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I’ve made no mention of bathrooms though. I’m talking specifically about women’s refuges and shelters.
 
The Corinthian said:
I’ve made no mention of bathrooms though. I’m talking specifically about women’s refuges and shelters.
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Yeah but you responded to @Maagge who was specifically talking about bathrooms.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah but you responded to @Maagge who was specifically talking about bathrooms.
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Yea but he was replying to a post about women only spaces, which is what my post was centred on.

I should have quoted that poster instead, but my overall point still stands.
 
The Corinthian said:
Yea but he was replying to a post about women only spaces, which is what my post was centred on.

I should have quoted that poster instead, but my overall point still stands.
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Edit: it's too late in the day to rant :)
 
I am possibly in the unusual position of having two good friends who have both had their daughters transition to men. This happened in both cases about 4 years ago once the final operations were completed. Both of them happy productive members of the community and nobody would be able to tell unless told.
I have been watching the whole anti Trans thing grow quickly in the last couple of years and it now seems to becoming more dangerous and vitriolic. I dont recall it being this bad 4-5 years ago and Im also watching the spin being applied and outright lies being pushed by the likes of Posie Parker, the subsequent result is a lot of people starting to make all sorts of hyperbolic claims.
There are issues that need solving but the dangerous rhetoric starting to take hold is making worry we will see some sort of horrible hate crimes committed as more and more people start to lose the plot. It seems to me to have become a weaponised issue. The safe women spaces argument is a fair one and something we need to make sure is looked after but the way Trans people are being portrayed within this is far removed from whats happening.
Its an angry world slowly getting angrier and solving issues is being thrown out the door, being replaced by anger and picking the "right" team to be in.
 
The only important thing to remember is that you're not wrong to ask questions and have an opinion. There's a very weird thing going on in the present-day Western world, and the lack of tolerance from everyone is unbelievable. I've always been liberal, left leaning, but it's hard to square myself with that position these days. There's nothing liberal about the left anymore.
 
Camilo said:
The only important thing to remember is that you're not wrong to ask questions and have an opinion. There's a very weird thing going on in the present-day Western world, and the lack of tolerance from everyone is unbelievable. I've always been liberal, left leaning, but it's hard to square myself with that position these days. There's nothing liberal about the left anymore.
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Yeah no having an opinion that other human beings are imps, demons, rats or whatever is wrong however you want to slice it.
 
Camilo said:
The only important thing to remember is that you're not wrong to ask questions and have an opinion. There's a very weird thing going on in the present-day Western world, and the lack of tolerance from everyone is unbelievable. I've always been liberal, left leaning, but it's hard to square myself with that position these days. There's nothing liberal about the left anymore.
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I am in the same boat. I was very left leaning but the last few years made me question a lot of things and I am now fully convinced that leftists are just as dangerous as rightists. I think it got absolutely out of control and ironically the freedom of speech is at it's worst levels it's been for decades. You can hardly say anything nowadays because you will 100% offend some group. There obviously are a lot of valid concerns regarding the gender topic but a lot of people seem to ignore that in order to be politically correct or in fear to be seen as transphobic and get cancelled by the radical left which is sad to see.
 
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