Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?

[NZT-One]

No surprises in that 144 though. You see them posting shite in all threads every week, not just eth related ones.

I’d imagine most are children/teens with little to no experience/knowledge. That’s how it seems with nearly all of their content.

Couldn’t value their opinion any less if I tried.

Shouldn't they all be on your ignore-list by now? Imagine going to a thread that has the topic of the thread in the title and feel hurt by the negativity...

It's encouraging that only 13% of the cafe are brain dead imbeciles. Big improvement from the sell Rashford thread.

Wow...

Isn't that something, the mods should intervene? Or is it ok to insult people as long as they aren't named specifically. Asking for a friend.

 

[SungSam7]

People have short memories, remember Klopps first season at Anfield? Team ran out of steam near the end, he got a a couple of windows to get his players and almost became the most dominant team in Europe.

The team has ran out of steam and he's got all he could possibly get out of these lot, it's not his fault that De Gea seems to fall asleep near the end of the season the past few years, he can't help Varane and Martinez getting injured, he can't help Luke Shaw gives away a 96th minute penalty. He can't score the goals for the club. All the passing and movement in the team has been excellent, the finishing has be woeful.

People he should start working on getting badges for themselves since they expect perfection, they seem to be masters of it.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Having higher standards for a start.
The reason why we are in this mess is because we always prolong the inevitable when it comes to sacking managers.
The bar has been lowered so much over the years since fergie left and its getting lower and lower.
So heres how what I would do.
If he would get sacked at real Madrid then he should be sacked with us.

I've had a day to think about it and I don't think he should go if we don't get Top 4. Only, only because of the ownership uncertainty. Its pointless changing much with the current setup as any manager will ultimately fail. I'm not convinced on him that's my opinion but it's been a hard season in so many ways and for me it hinges on the DDG renewal.
Agree on the standards thing.

 

[sepulturite]

Shouldn't they all be on your ignore-list by now? Imagine going to a thread that has the topic of the thread in the title and feel hurt by the negativity...


Wow...

Isn't that something, the mods should intervene? Or is it ok to insult people as long as they aren't named specifically. Asking for a friend.

He's spot on in what he said though, and the mods should absolutely not be intervening. Any fan that wants a manager sacked already for missing out on top 4 is the definition of an imbecile. There's way to many factors at play that to many fans are overlooking and are just throwing toys out of the pram. He needs to be given time, this was always going to take time to sort out, it was never a quick fix.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

No he shouldn't. But if the style of play doesn't improve next season then questions need to be asked.

 

[redcucumber]

Having higher standards for a start.
The reason why we are in this mess is because we always prolong the inevitable when it comes to sacking managers.
The bar has been lowered so much over the years since fergie left and its getting lower and lower.
So heres how what I would do.
If he would get sacked at real Madrid then he should be sacked with us.

Sorry but that's silly. Pretending we are at the same juncture and acting exactly as Madrid would do is nonsensical.

 

[jm99]

People have short memories, remember Klopps first season at Anfield? Team ran out of steam near the end, he got a a couple of windows to get his players and almost became the most dominant team in Europe.

The team has ran out of steam and he's got all he could possibly get out of these lot, it's not his fault that De Gea seems to fall asleep near the end of the season the past few years, he can't help Varane and Martinez getting injured, he can't help Luke Shaw gives away a 96th minute penalty. He can't score the goals for the club. All the passing and movement in the team has been excellent, the finishing has be woeful.

People he should start working on getting badges for themselves since they expect perfection, they seem to be masters of it.

I mean, maybe it goes the way of klopp and that would be great, or maybe it goes the way of Ole, and we have three season and more than half a billion spent and then we just need to replace him anyway. I think there's enough encouraging signs and enough issues with the team that he should get another year regardless, but we need to stop peddling this bullshit that because its sometimes worked out for a club to stick with the manager through a difficult period that every manager we ever hire should be given multiple years and hundreds of millions of pounds

 

[DOTA]

Wow...

Isn't that something, the mods should intervene? Or is it ok to insult people as long as they aren't named specifically. Asking for a friend.

It depends.

You don't tend to get in trouble for declaring views that nearly everyone thinks are imbecilic to be so.

 

[NZT-One]

He's spot on in what he said though, and the mods should absolutely not be intervening. Any fan that wants a manager sacked already for missing out on top 4 is the definition of an imbecile. There's way to many factors at play that to many fans are overlooking and are just throwing toys out of the pram. He needs to be given time, this was always going to take time to sort out, it was never a quick fix.

Ah yes. Now I am totally convinced. It surely is the right thing to insult people for their wrong opinions on football. Especially those who potentially didn't even post a thing but polled the wrong way. Those idiots, huh?

 

[sepulturite]

Ah yes. Now I am totally convinced. It surely is the right thing to insult people for their wrong opinions on football. Especially those who potentially didn't even post a thing but polled the wrong way. Those idiots, huh?

Yep exactly! Glad we got that cleared up

 

[DOTA]

Pretty funny the poll was made with voting visible. Load of people willingly adding their names to the list of the most trigger happy cranks we have.

 

[jm99]

He's spot on in what he said though, and the mods should absolutely not be intervening. Any fan that wants a manager sacked already for missing out on top 4 is the definition of an imbecile. There's way to many factors at play that to many fans are overlooking and are just throwing toys out of the pram. He needs to be given time, this was always going to take time to sort out, it was never a quick fix.

Why though? Look around Europe at clubs that are successful and have done better than us over the last ten years, bayern, Barca, real even Chelsea who've won two leagues titles and a champions league in the last decade, how long do managers get at these clubs if they aren't performing well?

We seem to be the only fanbase that's still stuck with this mentality of every manager needs to be given loads of time, because we had one genius for two decades, but that's not really how top level football works at any other clubs, managers aren't given total autonomy, clubs build squads and bring managers in to manage them, but managers aren't elevated to godlike status within the club the way they are here

 

[JustinC00]

People have short memories, remember Klopps first season at Anfield? Team ran out of steam near the end, he got a a couple of windows to get his players and almost became the most dominant team in Europe.

Klopp didn't have a summer window where he spent 200m, he came 2-3 months into the season.

 

[sepulturite]

Why though? Look around Europe at clubs that are successful and have done better than us over the last ten years, bayern, Barca, real even Chelsea who've won two leagues titles and a champions league in the last decade, how long do managers get at these clubs if they aren't performing well?

We seem to be the only fanbase that's still stuck with this mentality of every manager needs to be given loads of time, because we had one genius for two decades, but that's not really how top level football works at any other clubs, managers aren't given total autonomy, clubs build squads and bring managers in to manage them, but managers aren't elevated to godlike status within the club the way they are here

A manager definitely needs to be given more than a season though, simple as that mate. If things are bad next season then that's a totally different situation, but after one season? Nah that's absolutely crazy.

 

[jm99]

A manager definitely needs to be given more than a season though, simple as that mate. If things are bad next season then that's a totally different situation, but after one season? Nah that's absolutely crazy.

I am in favour of giving him another season regardless, but I don't blame people who look at his decision to spend 90m on Antony and leave us with Ronaldo who was turning 38 this year and Martial, who was so poor he was sent on loan last season as our striking options, then bringing in weghorst and playing him all the time as a reason to ditch him. When people say managers should be given time they generally don't mean spend a quarter of a billion pounds on the team and still not qualify for the champions league, Chelsea under abramovic wouldn't have it, Barca wouldn't have it, real wouldn't have it, bayern wouldn't have it.

These clubs are all more successful than us since fergie left so why do we stick with this weird "managers need 3 seasons and half a billion to be assessed" philosophy. Sticking with ole for 3 years is one of the reasons we're in such a mess

Were you in favour of keeping moyes on after a season, he only got 8 months?

 

[RedPed]

Why though? Look around Europe at clubs that are successful and have done better than us over the last ten years, bayern, Barca, real even Chelsea who've won two leagues titles and a champions league in the last decade, how long do managers get at these clubs if they aren't performing well?

We seem to be the only fanbase that's still stuck with this mentality of every manager needs to be given loads of time, because we had one genius for two decades, but that's not really how top level football works at any other clubs, managers aren't given total autonomy, clubs build squads and bring managers in to manage them, but managers aren't elevated to godlike status within the club the way they are here

We lost Ronaldo, Sancho, Garnacho, Martial, Eriksen, Varane, Martinez, Casemiro for large parts of a season where we have played more games than any other top league team. This is the first week in months where we are able to have a week between games. Seriously, what do you expect?

 

[Doracle]

He’s done an excellent job this season. Of course he shouldn’t get sacked if our threadbare squad collapses under the weight of playing more matches than virtually any other side in Europe. Even if we miss out on top 4, given where we were, it’s a 7/10 season.

That said, I want to see improvement from him next season. He has question marks over his player judgement and in game management particularly currently. Hopefully, once we sign a striker who can stay fit and give him some better bench options, he’ll do better in that regard next season.

 

[Rightnr]

Wow...

Isn't that something, the mods should intervene? Or is it ok to insult people as long as they aren't named specifically. Asking for a friend.

Nah, it's fine. It's only a problem if the mods disagree with the core point, otherwise it's insult away.

Obviously joking but there are a couple on here who get away with way too much for this to be a proper place to discuss freely

 

[Red Star One]

Can’t remember timelines but didn’t he have greenwood and ronaldo when he spent that warchest ?.

It’s obvious extra funds needed to be made available.

Greenwood was suspended by the club in Jan 2022 already, ETH was appointed in April and took over in May.

 

[DOTA]

Top four was the target most of us had for this season. Top four and a cup as the stretch goal, considered to be a very good start. We've already come very close to achieving that - very narrowly missing out would not justify completely abandoning the project, as frustrating as it would be.

 

[jm99]

We lost Ronaldo, Sancho, Garnacho, Martial, Eriksen, Varane, Martinez, Casemiro for large parts of a season where we have played more games than any other top league team. This is the first week in months where we are able to have a week between games. Seriously, what do you expect?

As I said, I'm in favour of giving him another season, but maybe he should have treated the europa league like the second rate competition that it is and not play our first xi players there in a season that was already compressed, it speaks to bad squad management.

On the individual issue of ten hag, I think he should be given another year, but I think we do need to move away from this idea that most of the fantasy is wedded to that every manager needs loads of time and loads of resources and asking questions of them for underperforming before they've had multiple seasons should be outlawed

 

[DOTA]

Nah, it's fine. It's only a problem if the mods disagree with the core point, otherwise it's insult away.

Obviously joking but there are a couple on here who get away with way too much for this to be a proper place to discuss freely

You tell 'em.

 

[NZT-One]

Why though? Look around Europe at clubs that are successful and have done better than us over the last ten years, bayern, Barca, real even Chelsea who've won two leagues titles and a champions league in the last decade, how long do managers get at these clubs if they aren't performing well?

We seem to be the only fanbase that's still stuck with this mentality of every manager needs to be given loads of time, because we had one genius for two decades, but that's not really how top level football works at any other clubs, managers aren't given total autonomy, clubs build squads and bring managers in to manage them, but managers aren't elevated to godlike status within the club the way they are here

Don't bother Mate. I guess, this is some group psychology thing and when people feel they don't have to contribute to a debate but they want to anyway, they emphasize their collective values and identity. For the record, I am firmly behind ETH, no matter how this season ends but reading about "an excellent season" or "huge improvements" it all feels a bit hollow for me. Lets remind ourselves, that everybody means well. Some people just can't stand ambivalence and will fight it only to not be irritated.

He’s done an excellent job this season. Of course he shouldn’t get sacked if our threadbare squad collapses under the weight of playing more matches than virtually any other side in Europe. Even if we miss out on top 4, given where we were, it’s a 7/10 season.

That said, I want to see improvement from him next season. He has question marks over his player judgement and in game management particularly currently. Hopefully, once we sign a striker who can stay fit and give him some better bench options, he’ll do better in that regard next season.

So if this season is 7 even when we lose out, is a season where we really go for it a 10 out of 10 or are you ready to go beyond 10?

Nah, it's fine. It's only a problem if the mods disagree with the core point, otherwise it's insult away.

Obviously joking but there are a couple on here who get away with way too much for this to be a proper place to discuss freely

Actually that is a bit discouraging... I mean, I get it, being overcritical will sooner lead to negativity and then to conflict but reacting in the way some do will only increase the rift. Happend with Ole not even 4 years ago.

 

[sepulturite]

I am in favour of giving him another season regardless, but I don't blame people who look at his decision to spend 90m on Antony and leave us with Ronaldo who was turning 38 this year and Martial, who was so poor he was sent on loan last season as our striking options, then bringing in weghorst and playing him all the time as a reason to ditch him. When people say managers should be given time they generally don't mean spend a quarter of a billion pounds on the team and still not qualify for the champions league, Chelsea under abramovic wouldn't have it, Barca wouldn't have it, real wouldn't have it, bayern wouldn't have it.

These clubs are all more successful than us since fergie left so why do we stick with this weird "managers need 3 seasons and half a billion to be assessed" philosophy. Sticking with ole for 3 years is one of the reasons we're in such a mess

Were you in favour of keeping moyes on after a season, he only got 8 months?

Yeh I hear what your saying, and I agree about Antony, was way to much money for him. Hopefully he'll come good though. The striker situation is a weird one, I wouldn't be surprised if we looked for one in the summer but knowing EtH he probably wanted a very particular type of striker and none were available possibly. Weghorst was always just a stop gap because there was no money in January, I think that's fairly obvious to any sane person and shouldn't be a stick to beat him with.

As for what you say about Moyes, that's a total different set of circumstances, Moyes inherited a title winning team, there wasn't as much talk about a rebuild and changing how we play, that is the case under EtH, so Moyes was rightly sacked for me, and if you take all the factors into account EtH doesn't deserve to be sacked after one season. Now if the same problems are there next season then that's a totally different conversation.

 

[DOTA]

Don't bother Mate. I guess, this is some group psychology thing and when people feel they don't have to contribute to a debate but they want to anyway, they emphasize their collective values and identity. For the record, I am firmly behind ETH, no matter how this season ends but reading about "an excellent season" or "huge improvements" it all feels a bit hollow for me. Lets remind ourselves, that everybody means well. Some people just can't stand ambivalence and will fight it only to not be irritated.

Actually that is a bit discouraging... I mean, I get it, being overcritical will sooner lead to negativity and then to conflict but reacting in the way some do will only increase the rift. Happend with Ole not even 4 years ago.

It's not just that negativity leads to conflict, it's also that negativity makes people not want to read the forums at all. Being 'overly-negative' and 'hysterical' are both warned against in the rules because a lot of us have very little desire to engage when too many people seem convinced their ability to see every glass as half empty is indicative of their righteous demand for higher standards. In that context it's not unfair for mods to see certain interactions where one person who is being very negative receives a very rude reply as six of one and half a dozen of the other and thus best let be.

 

[jm99]

Yeh I hear what your saying, and I agree about Antony, was way to much money for him. Hopefully he'll come good though. The striker situation is a weird one, I wouldn't be surprised if we looked for one in the summer but knowing EtH he probably wanted a very particular type of striker and none were available possibly. Weghorst was always just a stop gap because there was no money in January, I think that's fairly obvious to any sane person and shouldn't be a stick to beat him with.

As for what you say about Moyes, that's a total different set of circumstances, Moyes inherited a title winning team, there wasn't as much talk about a rebuild and changing how we play, that is the case under EtH, so Moyes was rightly sacked for me, and if you take all the factors into account EtH doesn't deserve to be sacked after one season. Now if the same problems are there next season then that's a totally different conversation.

I get what you're saying about weghorst being a stopgap, but after Ronaldo left and before weghorst arrived we went on our best run of the season, culminating in us beating city, we won quite a lot of games in a row in the league then weghorst starting playing and our form fell off a cliff, I think we went from 6 wins in a row to 3 in the next 9. Playing without him is clearly the better option, because he offers nothing.

I mean, of anything the team moyes inherited was more in need of a rebuild, i can't think of a single position apart from goalkeeper that we had anyone you'd trust for more than another season at the top level, and he only got one summer signing. Now I still think it was the right decision to get rid of him, when he talked about making things difficult for teams coming to old Trafford and stuff, he just wasn't the right fit and as I said I do think ten hag should be given another season, but what I object to is this thinking that every manager should be given basically infinite time and resources so we can find the next SAF. There won't be another SAF, he was a one off and if we keep giving every manager hundreds of millions and multiple seasons, then needing to basically replace all their signings when the next manager comes in we'll never really get anywhere.

 

[DOTA]

I think a really good argument for giving managers more than one season is that after they've completed the first they have seen first hand what they are working with and can plan with much more knowledge than before. I think Ten Hag gave a lot of players the benefit of the doubt when he arrived, in some cases wisely (Rashford had just had an appalling season, and is now having a great one, being a very extreme example), but this summer it's time for him to pass judgement and build a squad he's confident in.

As such expectations should be higher for next season.

 

[Rayman96]

He's spot on in what he said though, and the mods should absolutely not be intervening. Any fan that wants a manager sacked already for missing out on top 4 is the definition of an imbecile. There's way to many factors at play that to many fans are overlooking and are just throwing toys out of the pram. He needs to be given time, this was always going to take time to sort out, it was never a quick fix.

Im still in the ETH camp but the way people insult their fellow supporters on here for having a different opinion is absolutely pathetic. Try calling someone in your workplace an imbecile tomorrow and prepare for HR to march you out the door.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Sack ten Hag, sell Antony.
white text.

 

[croadyman]

I sounded the alarm as early as January 2023. I was called a opposition fan.

Since that Arsenal game major doubts did start to creep in my mind.
Up until ETH changes the team set-up we won't go anywhere. Even Arteta changed the arsenal set-up to 433. Saka was a wingback no long ago.
ETH has to change the set-up completely. Anything else will just be purple patch. If ETH refuses to change to 3 man midfield he will be sacked next season. You can't be consistent in premier league with 2 man midfield, more so a sloppy midfield. If UpTo now he hasn't detected to that then he's not a very good coach.

We can blame players everyday, new scapegoats will come but it's the coach duty to field a dominant, stable, team.

Do I want him to be sacked, no. My judgement of him will be if he signs 2 quality midfielders in July. If not, I will be 100% sure he won't last long here.

Be prepared for disappointment if you think Erik is gonna sign two quality midfielders,will be one and a top striker I reckon

 

[RedPed]

As I said, I'm in favour of giving him another season, but maybe he should have treated the europa league like the second rate competition that it is and not play our first xi players there in a season that was already compressed, it speaks to bad squad management.

On the individual issue of ten hag, I think he should be given another year, but I think we do need to move away from this idea that most of the fantasy is wedded to that every manager needs loads of time and loads of resources and asking questions of them for underperforming before they've had multiple seasons should be outlawed

Bad squad management is trying to win a competition? I've heard everything now. I think most Arsenal fans would be telling you to shut up if you threw that logic at their beloved Arteta.

 

[DOTA]

Im still in the ETH camp but the way people insult their fellow supporters on here for having a different opinion is absolutely pathetic. Try calling someone in your workplace an imbecile tomorrow and prepare for HR to march you out the door.

I personally believe it a good thing that football forums are not moderated by the same rules as your HR department.

 

[croadyman]

Should definitely be under serious pressure if there isn't a significant improvement when he has more of his own players

 

[sepulturite]

I get what you're saying about weghorst being a stopgap, but after Ronaldo left and before weghorst arrived we went on our best run of the season, culminating in us beating city, we won quite a lot of games in a row in the league then weghorst starting playing and our form fell off a cliff, I think we went from 6 wins in a row to 3 in the next 9. Playing without him is clearly the better option, because he offers nothing.

I mean, of anything the team moyes inherited was more in need of a rebuild, i can't think of a single position apart from goalkeeper that we had anyone you'd trust for more than another season at the top level, and he only got one summer signing. Now I still think it was the right decision to get rid of him, when he talked about making things difficult for teams coming to old Trafford and stuff, he just wasn't the right fit and as I said I do think ten hag should be given another season, but what I object to is this thinking that every manager should be given basically infinite time and resources so we can find the next SAF. There won't be another SAF, he was a one off and if we keep giving every manager hundreds of millions and multiple seasons, then needing to basically replace all their signings when the next manager comes in we'll never really get anywhere.

Yeh I agree we would've been better off without him altogether, but hindsight is a great thing!

I actually think EtH had a much bigger job on his hands than Moyes did. And I don't think any manager should get infinite time, but that's not what we're saying here, we're debating the fact that people want him sacked after one season if we don't get top 4, it's ridiculous. He should definitely get another season, simple as that.

 

[jm99]

Bad squad management is trying to win a competition? I've heard everything now. I think most Arsenal fans would be telling you to shut up if you threw that logic at their beloved Arteta.

Bad squad management is not prioritising when your squad is stretched thin, which resulted in us getting knocked out of the europa league anyway

 

[Raoul]

I feel like we're in a much better situation than Arsenal during Arteta's early days. ETH seems to have turned things around in a year, well faster than Arteta did. I recall quite a few on Fam TV wanted him out after year one.

 

[Rojofiam]

I feel like we're in a much better situation than Arsenal during Arteta's early days. ETH seems to have turned things around in a year, well faster than Arteta did. I recall quite a few on Fam TV wanted him out after year one.

Well, because ETH inherited a better squad and Manchester United can spend more money than Arsenal.

I fully agree with you, though. Imagine if Arsenal had sacked Arteta 12 months ago for missing out on top 4 that was decided by 3 points in the end. Does that matter anymore? Not at all. Progress can't be judged on a few results not going your way and individual player mistakes.

 

[jm99]

Yeh I agree we would've been better off without him altogether, but hindsight is a great thing!

I actually think EtH had a much bigger job on his hands than Moyes did. And I don't think any manager should get infinite time, but that's not what we're saying here, we're debating the fact that people want him sacked after one season if we don't get top 4, it's ridiculous. He should definitely get another season, simple as that.

But some people do seem to think every manager is automatically entitled to 2 seasons minimum, that's not how it works at any other big European club, if they underperform they go. Part of the issue is that we don't seem to have the proper structure in place so it is always left to the manager to make the transfers and no long term planning is ever done, we need to look at how the top European sides do things, and none of them are that reliant on their manager, they build squads and briny managers in, but the squads are rarely built in the managers image, the Glazers have only worked with ferguson as a success, so they don't have any other template for how to do it.

I do agree he should get another season, but tbh it depends on the last few games, if we win 2 and draw 2 and miss out by a point and give city a good game in the final that's one thing, but if we were to lose all 4 and get hammered 4 or 5-0 by city in the final I'd want him gone too tbh

 

[Raoul]

Well, because ETH inherited a better squad and Manchester United can spend more money than Arsenal.

I fully agree with you, though. Imagine if Arsenal had sacked Arteta 12 months ago for missing out on top 4 that was decided by 3 points in the end. Does that matter anymore? Not at all. Progress can't be judged on a few results not going your way and individual player mistakes.

Yep. Even Pep went trophy less in year one at City. These guys all need a couple of years at least to get the balance right.

 

[Teja]

I've seen enough to give him atleast 3 years here, but I'd like for us the club to start doing some sort of succession planning.

(a) What if we miss top four? (no change)
(b) What if we start the season really poorly (relegation form?)
(c) What if we get smashed by Pool 7-0 again? What if this happens while we're in relegation form?

etc. etc.

And use this as input to the players we sign this year.