Just to say that this background could be admitted into court as evidence if the defendant can prove he was aware of particular incidents, otherwise it's not able to be presented.
The bad (typically gun related) things happening in America thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Just to say that this background could be admitted into court as evidence if the defendant can prove he was aware of particular incidents, otherwise it's not able to be presented.
Yeah, well the prosecutors would then be likely to say 1) Thinking someone might hurt another person does not justify using lethal force as a restraint, and 2) The defendant should know that several minutes in a chokehold could lead to death.
We will see what happens in court, but obviously it will be many months before any kind of decision is reached. It's both sad that many people reach the desperate situation Neely found himself in, and also that these kinds of cases split the U.S. along party lines, when it really shouldn't.
I'll agree there and leave it at that
Everybody is quick dismissing that he didnt want to kill him. There is a lot of fecked up people. We have seen it with people shooting kids in their yard because they see an opportunity to accomplish their darkest fantasies with the perfectcexcuse. This guy is a marine and knows exactly what can happen with a chokehold. Maybe it was the perfect opportunity to be a deadly hero
No, is not. I would not try to kill him. A normal person dont try to kill him. I had similar people in subways and streets that are shouting crazy shit and nothing ever happen and never felt threatened and if i sort of do, i leave in the next station. And guess what. Nothing ever happens
Bad stuff is going to happen in the US in the next decades.
25+ last year and 20+ the year before?'Countless?'
Seems to have been tallied up just fine.
Not really - a lot goes unreported / unresolved.
But I'm sure as a Floridian you have a lot of insight into what goes on in NY
Yep, I'm sure a lot of being pushed into a train goes 'unreported.' No chance a random CCTV cam catches it or anything. Plus, hundreds of unresolved cases are undoubtedly piling up on police desks the four boroughs wide.
Yes, there has been a 'spate' of pushings in recent years, but to call them 'countless' is a little much.
the "...and died" was smuggled in and specious. 2 died last year. Still scary, but not countless.
Isn't the 'scary' part the relevant part within the context of this conversation?
There are several relevant parts of which "scary" is one. Another would be overly amplifying the nature and frequency of that specific threat so as to more aggressively pursue certain justifications.
Sure, but if people are aware of a threat, it's arguable that it moves the needle on what a reasonable person would perceive as an imminent threat of death/ serious bodily injury, which is relevant in a use of force analysis, which is the point the poster is making.
As I said, it's up to the defence to prove it's relevant to this case though.
Then just say the truth. That people are pushed from platforms every month and several have been killed. No need to overgild the lily. Not sure how much pushing people from platforms is an imminent danger to people between stops on a moving train though. The nature of the threat would seem to be somewhat different.
Now in and of itself the fact that a man was aggressively begging for food and offering violence might justify some level of force in order to subdue. I dunno though. He doesn't seem to have been actually visiting violence on anyone - merely threatening it/implying it. I think that speaks to imminence too. My first thought in such a circumstance would be to offer him a sandwich rather than inadvertently strangle him to death over many minutes. My second might be to try and talk the guy down.
Like, it's obviously not impossible that Penny acted rationally. The arguments are there to see. The man was threatening violence. Penny thought he might well be armed; felt he should act before an innocent got hurt, thought a surprise attack from the rear was the safest way to subdue, never intended to kill the guy, just neutralise the threat - and so on and so forth. From the footage and witness statements that have been made public, though, it does seem like there were many other potential avenues that could have reasonably been pursued before the option of choking the guy out on the floor was taken. Also, once that option was taken, it seems to have continued for far longer and performed with far more vigour than was strictly necessary.
I dunno, I can see the guy getting convicted, I can see him walking free.
I think the US now need to seriously consider investigating the (medically) best position to curl up in for a child so they experience the least amount of 'death-pain' when faced with a shooter.
Parents and teachers, and Winnie, can then help kids learn about leaving this mortal coil in even more graphic detail.
Parents and teachers, and Winnie, can then help kids learn about leaving this mortal coil in even more graphic detail.
It's always the ones you least expect.
Every projection is a confession with these folks...
Every projection is a confession with these folks...
SNADQ…
Major crime on the NYC subway is way down, both year-on-year and historically, so that would be a weird defense.
That would be a mistaken reasonable belief argument and I'll be honest, I don't know how that plays out.
His job is to first ensure the safety of the other passengers who were on that bus. That silly driver chose to behave like fecking John Wayne instead.
Go straight to hell America!!
curious about how someone throws a guy onto the tracks from a closed train!
We’re already here
Seriously, what is it going to take?
Nothing. We are totally through the looking glass with no means nor desire to change that fact.
The only option left is an executive order from POTUS that hits hard as feck against anyone owning any firearm other than a hunting rifle. When you choose to not take the carrot, the stick is the only other way.
As a precedent of a POTUS signing such an executive order that forces Americans to surrender a certain type of goods was FDR in April 1933, when Executive Order 6102 required Americans to surrender their gold (other than gold jewelry, gold coins, and a very small amount of gold bullion) to the government for payment of the then prevailing value of the gold surrendered. The purpose of #6102 was to prevent hoarding of gold that would have worsened the Depression. It was an emergency measure in short then, and thus we can use the same rationale for this kind of emergency.
People in polls HATE the way Joe Biden is taking on the current gun problem. I think most want him to swing the axe rather than rely on the same unreliables in Congress.
Nothing. Sandy Hook was the tipping point and we tipped towards hell. We are a rotting corpse of death, hate, cruelty and fear.
Curious if you're being serious
I can kind of understand the small handgun thing for 'self-defence', kind of, though still unacceptable. But the AR15s/AK47s etc.....and the multiple ownership of these - that is just inexcusable and there is no defence for that.
Can't the US just start there? Or what about throwing the book at people for gun-related incidents. They have to be accountable at the very least? It really is baffling especially when the country loses it shit over less trivial stuff.
2A is basically sacrosanct. There have been some SC cases that nibbled around the edges of the issue, but any meaningful law passed or EO signed would be in front of the SC post haste.
The amendment is 'god given' for goodness sake, mere mortal humans should not be able to violate god's will after all.
And ya gotta remember, we are exceptional as a country & we fight tooth & nail to maintain that standard.
My half baked pseudo tongue in cheek theory is the culture of a country is baked in from the historical mythos.
The US was built on a wild west mentality of people taking responsibility for their and their own community's safety so 2a is hard to overturn because that spirit is baked into the pudding.
Look at the UK, our mythos is that we deposed our rulers and then begged them to come back and we've been cowed by them ever since and take it up the arse from them over and over, meanwhile in France people get on the streets and we all know how they dealt with their nobility..
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not pro gun
That’s so fecking sad. Is there any follow up on this? The feckers should lose their jobs and face legal action.
R.I.P to the poor guy
I missed this. Unless there is a specific policy that the police officers were following that said they shall not get the medication I'd consider that manslaughter and should be fired and charged, but either way the police should be held accountable
Another strange thing, you can be held for 2 days because of a dispute with a neighbor? It sounds very excessive.