Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

VorZakone said:
Bizarre post. The NYT rarely gets these things wrong and other prominent Twitter accounts such as CIT came to the same conclusion.
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Oh I'm very sorry that I'm skeptical if a daily newspaper also works part-time as an investigator for missiles terror. That said even if it is true, it's completely Russia's fault that Ukraine needs to work with everything they've got, no matter how old and faulty it is. To make matters worse, who do you think this news is helping? Russian state TV already uses it in their daily propaganda that Ukraine is killing their own citizens. "Here look, even the Americans know it." And they will use this every time from now on when killing Ukrainian civilians.
It only helps Russia and their propaganda, no one else.
 
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Ragnar123 said:
Oh I'm very sorry that I'm skeptical if a daily newspaper also works part-time as an investigator for missiles terror. That said even if it is true, it's completely Russia's fault that Ukraine needs to work with everything they've got, no matter how old and faulty it is. To make matters worse, who do you think this news is helping? Russian state TV already uses it in their daily propaganda that Ukraine is killing their own citizens. "Here look, even the Americans know it." And they will use this every time from now on when killing Ukrainian civilians.
This article only helps Russia, no one else. So I'm very sorry for my bizzare post criticizing the rarely wrong NYT.
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Reporting about Ukrainian mishaps is just journalismus. Not reporting about it would be propaganda.

I rather have proof of still living in a society where even hard truths are reported than one where everything is a lie to make the own side look better.

Such articles prove that we are still better than the Russians.
 
Ragnar123 said:
Oh I'm very sorry that I'm skeptical if a daily newspaper also works part-time as an investigator for missiles terror. That said even if it is true, it's completely Russia's fault that Ukraine needs to work with everything they've got, no matter how old and faulty it is. To make matters worse, who do you think this news is helping? Russian state TV already uses it in their daily propaganda that Ukraine is killing their own citizens. "Here look, even the Americans know it." And they will use this every time from now on when killing Ukrainian civilians.
It only helps Russia and their propaganda, no one else.
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So western press should behave more like russia's press?
 
Ragnar123 said:
Whose fault is it that these civilians died?
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In the grand scheme of things, Russia. In the specific incident, it seems Ukraine fecked up (I can't read the article, it's paywalled). Ukrainian people, especially the victim's families, have the right to know what happened and need to know the government/military is making sure it doesn't happen again.

So again, do you want our press to behave like russia's press and report only what's convenient?
 
VorZakone said:
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I love that this serious journalist/analyst is quoting a "Se & Hør" article about the donation of tanks to the Ukraine. Every single Danish online news publication is writing about this, and he inadvertently chose the one best known for having topless models in the back.
 
maniak said:
So again, do you want our press to behave like russia's press and report only what's convenient?
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It depends. Was it a human error, was it a technical error, is this news even true? If it's a human error on Ukrainian side, then yes they have the right to know. If it's a technical malfunction that is not in Ukrainian hands or the whole news even untrue to begin with, what's the point for such an article that only helps Russian propaganda? As you said, it's behind a paywall and we can only read the headline. But I'm very skeptical about it, if NYT doesn't release the information who investigated how in this matter.
It's on the same level for me as those "anonymous officials" if we don't get more info.
 
Ragnar123 said:
Whose fault is it that these civilians died?
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It was a failed attempt to intercept a Russian missile, so of course Russia's. Nonetheless this means that Russia did not actively try to hit this market but some unknown target.
 
Ragnar123 said:
It depends. Was it a human error, was it a technical error, is this news even true? If it's a human error on Ukrainian side, then yes they have the right to know. If it's a technical malfunction that is not in Ukrainian hands or the whole news even untrue to begin with, what's the point for such an article that only helps Russian propaganda? As you said, it's behind a paywall and we can only read the headline. But I'm very skeptical about it, if NYT doesn't release the information who investigated how in this matter.
It's on the same level for me as those "anonymous officials" if we don't get more info.
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We don't get to pick and chose and ignore or dismiss news we don't like.
 
I know this is the war thread but I am wondering what's up with UKR suing Poland and a couple other countries for some agricultural stuff? I am not exactly familiar with that.

I was a bit surprised that it got to that point among them after they, especially Poland, have been thru in this war.
 
The United said:
I know this is the war thread but I am wondering what's up with UKR suing Poland and a couple other countries for some agricultural stuff? I am not exactly familiar with that.

I was a bit surprised that it got to that point among them after they, especially Poland, have been thru in this war.
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Are you sure it's Urkaine the country suing or some Ukrainian company?
 
The Firestarter said:
Are you sure it's Urkaine the country suing or some Ukrainian company?
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I am not exactly sure. The likes of Reuters and Politico stated that Ukraine plans to sue them.

Not sure if it's a good thing if true. But I am wondering if those countries are really fecking UKR over to be sued by it. Nonetheless, Poland has been one of its biggest allies in this war.


BBC link below:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66849185
 
Ukraine is making swift progress on reforms needed to one day become a member of the EU, the president of the European Commission has said.

Ursula von der Leyen said she was “amazed” that Kyiv was able to overhaul laws in areas like corruption and money laundering while fighting the Russian invaders.
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There were likely many more factors at play for why Putin invaded Ukraine, but perhaps he took inspiration from Azerbaijan indeed.

 
VorZakone said:
There were likely many more factors at play for why Putin invaded Ukraine, but perhaps he took inspiration from Azerbaijan indeed.

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There’s a difference between the two cases though, in that Azerbaijan are technically recovering territory that is internationally recognized as theirs, whereas Russia has been annexing the internationally recognized territory of a neighboring state. So in that sense the ‘norm’ established by Azerbaijan works against Moscow’s aims here.
 
2cents said:
There’s a difference between the two cases though, in that Azerbaijan are technically recovering territory that is internationally recognized as theirs, whereas Russia has been annexing the internationally recognized territory of a neighboring state. So in that sense the ‘norm’ established by Azerbaijan works against Moscow’s aims here.
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Greg Yudin adresses that too.

 
VorZakone said:
Greg Yudin adresses that too.

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I think there's a few more factors he needs to address to draw parallels, but yes of course one reason Putin went for it is because he thought he could, because Ukraine had no defensive backers. That's fairly standard I think for any invasion.
 
VorZakone said:
Greg Yudin adresses that too.

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Well I think in the long run the massive international resistance to accepting Russia’s annexation of these territories will endure, while concurrently the Azerbaijani victory will be widely recognized (assuming there’s no subsequent mass ethnic cleansing of the Karabakh Armenians). And if Putin believed that sheer force and facts on the ground could change that, then it’s another miscalculation on his part.
 
From an american geopolitical perspective isn't it better that this drags on for as long as possible, to drain russian resources? If they see it like that in geopolitical terms it makes sense they arm the ukranians little by little instead of going all in for a quicker victory.

"Ukranians are dying everyday" is an emotional argument for the common joe, but american military/political big heads probably don't give a shit about that.

From what I read this war is hurting europe economically but not so much america.
 
maniak said:
From an american geopolitical perspective isn't it better that this drags on for as long as possible, to drain russian resources? If they see it like that in geopolitical terms it makes sense they arm the ukranians little by little instead of going all in for a quicker victory.

"Ukranians are dying everyday" is an emotional argument for the common joe, but american military/political big heads probably don't give a shit about that.

From what I read this war is hurting europe economically but not so much america.
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That’s what is believed to have been the policy during the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80s.
 
maniak said:
From an american geopolitical perspective isn't it better that this drags on for as long as possible, to drain russian resources? If they see it like that in geopolitical terms it makes sense they arm the ukranians little by little instead of going all in for a quicker victory.

"Ukranians are dying everyday" is an emotional argument for the common joe, but american military/political big heads probably don't give a shit about that.

From what I read this war is hurting europe economically but not so much america.
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Notice the oil price?

If Russia wins what was the point of the last two years and billions of dollars of weapons given?

There's no way of the US administration backing down now due to that.

The war will continue until a side wins or the global economy collapses so much that it outweighs the escalation of commitment keeping it going. Then they'll be peace talks and a deal.

My guess is the latter.
 
maniak said:
From an american geopolitical perspective isn't it better that this drags on for as long as possible, to drain russian resources? If they see it like that in geopolitical terms it makes sense they arm the ukranians little by little instead of going all in for a quicker victory.

"Ukranians are dying everyday" is an emotional argument for the common joe, but american military/political big heads probably don't give a shit about that.

From what I read this war is hurting europe economically but not so much america.
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I think the biggest mistake people think is that the Russians will be defeated easily. I think every thing in this war after the first few months showed that it is not the case. Equipping UKR doesn't necessarily mean that either at least in the short term.

The other problem that the Biden faces that people forget is that the U.S as a whole doesn't give much feck about the geopolitics or UKR other than lip services for a few months.

The point is that even with fully equipped UKR force, the success in short tem is doubtful. Without the full support from the U.S congress for a few years, there is little Biden can do even if he wants to equip the UKR with whatever they want.
 
The United said:
I think the biggest mistake people think is that the Russians will be defeated easily. I think every thing in this war after the first few months showed that it is not the case. Equipping UKR doesn't necessarily mean that either at least in the short term.

The other problem that the Biden faces that people forget is that the U.S as a whole doesn't give much feck about the geopolitics or UKR other than lip services for a few months.

The point is that even with fully equipped UKR force, the success in short tem is doubtful. Without the full support from the U.S congress for a few years, there is little Biden can do even if he wants to equip the UKR with whatever they want.
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Whilst some may have certainly thought that at differing points, we're coming from a starting point of almost certain defeat for Ukraine. Every day since has steadily shifted the needle more toward a Russian defeat.

The current short term news cycle is focusing on the atacms decision ...which I'm not sure is even a decision, its just a stance that hasn't changed since day one. While at the same time we've got ABRAMS being delivered right now, F-16's imminent and probably another whopping aid package announced today while Zelensky is in the US.

Arms supply to Ukraine is still consistently increasing and shows no sign of slowing down, despite what controversy some media try to create on the topic. Oh, and don't forget Ukraine's own home grown long range capability, which is now seemingly taking out key Russian targets at will.

I don't know if Biden/US's choices are the best, worst or something in between, but we're on the right path.
 
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