Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

ATXRedDevil said:
Do you really think Israel would target a hospital given the current climate? There are people marching and protesting around the world talking about gassing and exterminating the Jews. The last thing they want to do is push public opinion (or worse, international support) to the side of Hamas/Palestinians by doing something as stupid as targeting a hospital.

Good thread on the info that's come out on this.
https://x.com/talhagin/status/1714416463136559592?s=20
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Regardless of what has actually happened in this instance, the mere fact that you think Israel gives a flying feck what anyone thinks is genuinely hilarious.
 
Zen86 said:
They’re not going to bomb their way to freedom are they. I can’t see any scenario where those hostages are successfully retrieved by force.
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I honestly think they are in a we cant negotiate with hostages situation. I think for Israelis the die is cast. Which is why i cant see any other outcome than a chronic occupation of gaza.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's all about the level of evidence you're looking for. There's been a growing body of evidence over the last 24 hours to support the idea that this was a failed rocket launch. From the disceprancy between the damage at the bomb site and the damage Israeli bombs typically cause, to the timestamped livestream Al Jazeera footage showing a missile launching, failing, fragmenting and falling back to earth - causing a large explosion which looks extremely similar to the hospital explosion.

How much more evidence are you expecting? Because I suspect the burden of proof you're looking for is different to what you expected with regards to the allegations of babies being beheaded.
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So far we’ve seen an audio excerpt that’s been intercepted and a couple of online Twitter threads. The audio excerpt seems especially odd seeing as the Israelis had no idea what was happening on a much larger scale a week or so ago.

The Twitter threads may be credible to you but I’m waiting to see what transpires.

On the other side - we have people who were in the building say that the hospital was warned a few days ago, we have evidence that it had warning strikes/bombs from a few days prior. We have the Israeli minister claim the attack the delete the post. We have the IDF edit their post from ‘it’s us’ to ‘it’s someone else’. And then we of course have their pattern of behaviour over a prolonged period of time.

Again with the beheaded babies - you need to let it go.

With the beheaded babies claim, I knew it lacked credibility from fairly early on as all news outlets were pointing to one journalist. You’d think that it would have been shared with other journalists on the scene if it was the case, or shared by the IDF themselves given the shocking nature of it. Similarly the rape claims all came from a single US based online tabloid magazine which didn’t divulge anything specific in terms of sources and spoke about it in generalities. All news sources went with it that tabloid mag. And again, it was quickly found to be untrue.

The hospital issue is a bit more murky, I have my viewpoint which I’ve shared, but it’s certainly not as easy to disprove (yet) as the beheaded babies claim.
 
JPRouve said:
Guys you are being trolled by @ATXRedDevil, just ignore him.

Also here is something about palestinians origin and their relation to jews.
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Not trolling. Just very perturbed by the increase in anti-Semitism around the world and propaganda that's somehow painting the guys that burn babies alive and kill children in front of their parents are the good guys.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
Not trolling. Just very perturbed by the increase in anti-Semitism around the world and propaganda that's somehow painting the guys that burn babies alive and kill children in front of their parents are the good guys.
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You are lying and making some of the most ridiculous claims that we have seen in this thread. If you are not trolling take a step back learn about the subject just a little bit and come back with some sense.
 
The Corinthian said:
So far we’ve seen an audio excerpt that’s been intercepted and a couple of online Twitter threads. The audio excerpt seems especially odd seeing as the Israelis had no idea what was happening on a much larger scale a week or so ago.

The Twitter threads may be credible to you but I’m waiting to see what transpires.

On the other side - we have people who were in the building say that the hospital was warned a few days ago, we have evidence that it had warning strikes/bombs from a few days prior. We have the Israeli minister claim the attack the delete the post. We have the IDF edit their post from ‘it’s us’ to ‘it’s someone else’. And then we of course have their pattern of behaviour over a prolonged period of time.

Again with the beheaded babies - you need to let it go.

With the beheaded babies claim, I knew it lacked credibility from fairly early on as all news outlets were pointing to one journalist. You’d think that it would have been shared with other journalists on the scene if it was the case, or shared by the IDF themselves given the shocking nature of it. Similarly the rape claims all came from a single US based online tabloid magazine which didn’t divulge anything specific in terms of sources and spoke about it in generalities. All news sources went with it that tabloid mag. And again, it was quickly found to be untrue.

The hospital issue is a bit more murky, I have my viewpoint which I’ve shared, but it’s certainly not as easy to disprove (yet) as the beheaded babies claim.
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I've personally seen the burned bodies of Israeli babies. And cribs covered in blood. Does it matter that pictures of those beheaded aren't released? Honestly, burning someone alive is probably worse than beheading.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
If Hamas insists on putting military assets in densely populated civilian areas, is Israel supposed to just say screw it, we'll take the bombings? It's also pretty telling that Egypt refuses to help and has also blocked off access. In fact, they've reinforced the border. Israel on the other hand gives out 10s of thousands of work permits to Palestinians who cross into Israel each year to work higher paying jobs. Israel treats hundreds of thousands of Gazans each year in Israeli hospitals. I can understand how after the attacks, they're not so keen on helping anymore.
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At this point I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. This is rosiest painting of Israel's actions towards Palestinians I have ever seen.
 
Gehrman said:
I honestly think they are in a we cant negotiate with hostages situation. I think for Israelis the die is cast. Which is why i cant see any other outcome than a chronic occupation of gaza.
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Which I get. There is no path to victory here.

For Isreal, it’s do something and cause the deaths of thousands of civilians, or do nothing and demonstrate weakness and invite internal turmoil after the atrocities committed by Hamas. Bombing Gaza isn’t achieving anything, nor will a ground invasion. It’s hurting everyone except those actually responsible and it’s pushing the entire region towards boiling point.

I understand the strong reaction, it’s understandably one of anger and hurt. I would say it’s time to stop, but then it’s just a matter of time until Hamas strike again. It’s an utterly hopeless situation really. Outside observers who think there are easy answers here or strongly hardline to either side are idiots.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
If Hamas insists on putting military assets in densely populated civilian areas, is Israel supposed to just say screw it, we'll take the bombings? It's also pretty telling that Egypt refuses to help and has also blocked off access. In fact, they've reinforced the border. Israel on the other hand gives out 10s of thousands of work permits to Palestinians who cross into Israel each year to work higher paying jobs. Israel treats hundreds of thousands of Gazans each year in Israeli hospitals. I can understand how after the attacks, they're not so keen on helping anymore.
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Well according to International Law they can't do what they are currently doing and have historically done.

Issuing permits to subjugated people to work on land they have had taken from them is something we see as a good thing?
 
calodo2003 said:
Why would it be a stretch to believe the leaders of the terrorist incursion had the battleplans on their person?
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Set aside all the stuff about how neat the documents look (allegedly retrieved from dead combatants.. did they have a heart attack?), or the rumblings about bad Arabic translations (I don't speak the language so I can't attest to that). Set it aside and you have the IDF finding "top secret" military plans from Hamas and giving them to the news so that they can post photos of them on the internet like they're hunting for Likes.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
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I see an 'if' in the first tweet & why couldn't the trove be given to both the government & the media simultaneously? This is a war being waged through the media to capture public sentiment.

That said, I can totally see how this could be an Israeli psyops, etc. ploy.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
What are some of those ridiculous claims?
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There are people marching and protesting around the world talking about gassing and exterminating the Jews.
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Do you have a single march or protest that has that message?

Claiming that palestinians are colonizers when they are locals like a bunch of other ethnic groups who are all related.

Pyramid builders weren't slaves but paid and skilled workers.

Then there is your depiction of palestinian kids, not only that depiction is vile in itself but it ignores what happens in the West Bank where Hamas isn't a thing. Jewish extremism and activism is though, would you make the same comments about them and how their kids see palestinians?

Bascially every other sentences you put your foot in your mouth.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
At this point I'm not sure if you are trolling or not. This is rosiest painting of Israel's actions towards Palestinians I have ever seen.
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If those claims were actually true, we wouldn't have these problems.
 
ATXRedDevil said:
I feel terrible for the innocent Palestinians. But they elected Hamas, the hatred is bred into them at a young age (see numerous videos online of Palestinian children playing "stab the Jew" or interviews of Palestinian kids at the UN SCHOOL in Gaza saying they would kill a Jew). Children. To quote an Israeli diplomat from the 70s, the moral difference between the two is that Jewish children are not taught to hate.
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Well, that's one way to justify killing civilians. You just have to begin by telling us how bad you feel for them. But...
 
KingCantona87 said:
Are you going to counter his points or just continue to personally attack him because his views don't align with yours?
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If jewish kids aren't taught to hate how do we have jewish extremism? Is it only taught to adults?
 
ATXRedDevil said:
Is Hamas not violating international law also? I'm just curious what Israel is supposed to do here.
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Has anyone on here not condemned Hamas on their actions? To repeat what has been said many times, Hamas' actions were vile and should be condemned by any rightminded person. This doesn't give Israel leave to breach international law themselves.
 
Drizzle said:
From a twitter account that's been extremely critical of Israel up to now.

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If these pictures are correct, would have expected to see at least a very large bomb crater and the cars to be in a much more mangled state to have killed so many.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
No. Absolutely not. It was literally in the middle of the Al Jazeera (arabic) live feed. I literally downloaded over an hour of the live feed itself to check it wasn't bullshit. The part in question starts at 18.59 pm. You can see the missile divert its course and then disintegrate. The explosion on the ground occurs a few moments later in an area that corresponds exactly to the layout of the Al Ahli Arab hospital. Over the next hour the live feed then continuously shows the conflagration as well as an ever increasing stream of emergency vehicles attending to what is quite clearly a major incident. The first pictures out of the hospital occur at 19.35 on the same channel. The Al Quds news network first reported the explosion on twitter at something like 19.33.
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Ok thanks, I swore a lot of the noise online was that the timestamps didn't line up.
 
KingCantona87 said:
The two do exist, but not every Israeli child is taught to hate Palestinians in their national curriculum...
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And not all palestinian kids is taught to hate palestinians either. That wouldn't be true for all of Gaza and it is definitely not true for the West Bank where jewish extremists are happy to make themselves known.
 
JPRouve said:
If jewish kids aren't taught to hate how do we have jewish extremism? Is it only taught to adults?
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As I have previously mentioned, I happen to have relatives in Israel.
One such relative who is a school teacher. I have spoken with them on a number of occasions about the background to the situation in both Gaza and the West Bank.
And I trust them well enough to know that at least they would never teach the children to hate the Palestinians. Far from it.
Israel is very far from being the only country with extremists.
You must know of this in France. No?
 
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