Indeed.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Indeed.
Not just Germany I feel.
This may appear really stupid, but I'm fascinatined with the far right and the rampant anti semitism is part of their vile make up, globally. Both of which, the right, and anti semitism seem to be on the rise.
Bizarrely this doesn't always, translate to anti Israeli sentiment and at times if anything it's the left that take issue with the state of Israel.
It's quite a tangle.
You should challenge them specifically on what they have said. I've seen anger, disgust, outrage, but nothing antisemitic.
Just out of interest. Minutes after the blast the internet and news outlets were full with reports of Israel has been bombing the hospital and over 400 people were dead and thousands injured.
How anybody is capable to assess not only the damage and casualties but also identify the culprit and then post send publish the findings in social media and sent it to all major press agencies. And all this in less than 4 minutes.
You should report them. It's anonymous and we stamp out any racism or sectarianism that we are aware of.
The report feature helps us moderate the forum for everyone.
Yeah, that has me confused too.
I'm not on Twitter (in case there's anyone left on the planet I haven't told this) but I'm morbidly curious about how the blue ticks are squaring the circle of their longstanding antisemitism with wanting to crush what they probably portray as an Islamic terrorist state.
This is a good point.
That's the main reason I never saw twitter as a good news source.
I really don't get why you keep comparing Hamas and the Israeli government, it doesn't make sense to do so.
Then some other objection will be raised.
Are you sure it was all in 4 minutes? If I recall correctly the initial reports mentioned less than 100 casualties.
I dont get why you don't?
Hamas was the de facto govt of Gaza and directly responsible for the murder of 1400 people.
Hamas is the one feeding most of the information out from Gaza.
Why are they exempt from scrutiny?
It’s not an insult against anybody here, and it’s not even restricted to red cafe. It’s the juvenile consumption of suffering through a media lens designed to promote that consumption. And How it drives hatred and blows up diplomacy and rationality,
An example is the argument you’re having with @Pogue Mahone . Had the hospital strike not been reported as an IDF one and consumed in this way, it would not have driven hatred against israel to the point that embassies were at risk and leaders cancelled on Biden. You say it would have had the same effect by phone or watching on tv, but that’s clearly false. It was the instant reiteration from ordinary folk and powerful folk all over the world constantly, signalling “look how bad Israel is, look what they did” which crashed the diplomacy and put people at risk. us idiots being in the loop was what caused the huge social chaos.
I would say that you post about deaths and incidents in probably the least empathetic way of nearly anyone in the thread, so while I completely agree with what you're saying, you don't abide by your own suggestions at all
I can see your point here; but I generally do try not to post media and events to fan the flames and pour fuel on the fire. I want nothing to do with claims of beheaded babies and quite honestly, I try not to even look at the most painful stuff of the dead etc.
Not saying my lens or prism isn’t fecked too, we all cope in our own ways so quite pointless trying to defend a view that war will have civilian casualties and the macro view that the ratios not individuals matter. Because obviously every individual matter, but I know it’s not how I come across sometimes. I do care; the fact the IDF doesn’t have one more officer attests to that somewhat.
Agree. And if absolutely everyone atm could focus how vital it is for the people of Gaza that humanitarian help comes through we might move from the dead spot (literally).
World leaders and politicians yesterday (and days before) also seemed more bothered about whose missile hit the hospital or what stance they will take because it might hurt Israel feelings. All that, while we are on a brink of a humanitarian disaster and people are dying every day in horrific conditions. And yes, bringing back Israeli civilians that were brutally taking as hostages 10 days ago should also be seen as the same priority. Don't understand why that's not the case.
They aren't exempt from scrutiny, but you keep comparing their actions etc. as if they are anything close to the same thing.
How could you genuinely be surprised that the Israeli government has posted more information than Hamas on this hospital bombing? You're comparing Tesco to a corner shop.
No you're right, no one died, it didn't happen and the BBC reporter amongst many many others who have seen people carry the dead and body parts away are all lying.
Just thankful we have internet sleuths to find this out for us from the comfort of their sofas rather than dedicated reporters on the Frontline.
You presumably have seen the immediate impact of the disinformation about the hospital explosion. Peace talks cancelled, embassies attacked, synagogues burnt down, hate and aggression ramped up across the region. The stakes are much much higher than assuaging hurt Israeli feelings.
Funny how some are now trying to downplay the significance of this hospital incident, whereas a couple of days ago it was an all-time atrocity.
There are literally Hamas and Hamas affiliated officials on the ground, right there, with cameras and a world media ready to listen. We've had harrowing walkthroughs of Israeli strikes for days.
Sorry, to suggest poor old Hamas can't muster up a media response to this incident because they're a 'corner shop' is strange to say the least.
Mainly because it was 70 years ago and part of a world war.
Don't be daft.
Am not downplaying it at all, am just saying that in the context of all that is happening (and the very fact that people and kids don't have anything to drink living in horrible/pretty much unimaginable conditions) should be seen as an absolute priority and be stopped.
We are witnessing all-time atrocity (or tragedy) with each passing minute of every day.
Only in relation to the Holocaust, many Germans don't know their colonial history in Africa because it isn't taught as much.
https://www.justsecurity.org/89489/expert-guidance-law-of-armed-conflict-in-the-israel-hamas-war/
As always, a fantastic article by these guys. ( @Conor i made many of these points days ago in a long post, talking about how the IDF is fighting wrong and not doing things the normal way, but obviously less eloquently. Zero interest as it’s not sensational. People like these do care, they just express it differently)
As always, a fantastic article by these guys. ( @Conor i made many of these points days ago in a long post, talking about how the IDF is fighting wrong and not doing things the normal way, but obviously less eloquently. Zero interest as it’s not sensational. People like these do care, they just express it differently)
Without having time to catch-up on all the posts here, is the consensus now that the hospital blast is likely to have been accidental friendly-fire from a Palestinian rocket?
It's nice to know that most people can see through the IOF's lies now.
The question that gets lost on the shuffle is "what is the political objectives there ?" or to say it plainly : Let's suppose Israel destroy or reduce Hamas severely... then what ? Ostensibly the objective is this or making sure they can't carry an attack like the one they just did. Do they enact even stronger measures to fence the border ? Do they occupy Gaza ? Do they force a part of the population out ? Do they have a plan to achieve peace long term ?
I fear the only real unspoken answer is displacing people and colonisation while bartering themselves in a better situation with some Arab countries.
I fear the only real unspoken answer is displacing people and colonisation while bartering themselves in a better situation with some Arab countries.
That’s the growing consensus at the moment. An errant Islamic Jihad rocket fired out of Gaza that instead hit outside a local hospital.
That's how fast some news outlets and social media platforms reported the bombing.
I think in the UK there are some people who use anti-zionism as get out of jail card people for their antisemitism. I look at Chris Williamson who was a shadow minister under Miliband and Corbyn and was suspended as a Labour MP for antisemitism. He was ousted by his constituents in 2019 and now works for Iranian state TV. He jumped on the hospital bombing story immediately by saying Israel had forfeited its right to exist. He went straight to the point. Now lets assume Israel was responsible once the evidence is put out once and for all, it's hard to reconcile that being a position of moral high ground with the fact he has shown sympathy and support for both Putin and Assad who have on several occasions bombed hospitals - even during the time he was in the shadow cabinet.
I'm not sure it's an argument, just a discussion on the material impact of social media and whether it actually changes the narrative or just speeds it up. I don't see how that is what you were referring to when you said "When something happens, something truly awful, people lurch to social media and use it as their media ammo to back up a point of view. They are so fecking detached from the reality of violence being actual life, and instead fire it from their cannon to backup a politidal viewpoint"
I still reckon an explosion at a hospital may have been the subject of many phone calls without Twitter.
Peace talks have been cancelled at the 11th hour before. We didn't move straifht from carrier pigeon to Twitter.
The Israel - Palestine war existed before Hamas was even formed.
I genuinely don't see a resolution unless the world governing bodies step in properly and start sanctioning in a fair and just way. Which I can't see happening either.
I didn't question that their was am incident at the hospital causing deaths and injuries.
I am challenging the reports from the Hamas controlled health agency which came up with detailed assessment of casualties within minutes after the explosion. Not only that they of course knew it has been the Israelis bombing the hospital.
Another piece of thought. What benefits Israel would have had in bombing a Christian hospital just when Joe Biden is visiting and trying to meditate?
Honestly I don't see absolutely any benefit for the IDF to bomb the hospital.
I see.
Israel can't decide how to lie about it so, no.
Jesus. That's fairly harsh.