Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.

[Mwooyo]

He's a goalkeeper. His job isn't to be good on the ball. It's to keep goal. He isn't very good at it.

I don’t know why people are still persisting with this onana vs De Gea argument. The fact Onana has made errors doesn’t suddenly mean De Gea didn’t need replacing.

He deserves a chance to show his Inter form until the end of the season, and things could change with a consistent defence in front of him. But if he keeps chucking goals in like he has done, you’d like to think we’d be keeping an eye out for an upgrade.

Nope. This is a comparison of De gea last few seasons and Onana this season. Besides, How do you know this is peak Onana. Van der sar peaked in his 30s...until Onana ends his career, we cant know his peak.

 

[Mwooyo]

We'd be better off at this stage of the season with DDG in goal instead of Onana - noone can convince me otherwise. It might still turn out to be the right decision in the long run, and no matter what, we needed to move on from DDG at some point.

I think Onana might be able to turn it around, as he seems to have a strong personality, but there are certainly elements of his fundamentals that look worrying.

Nah..keep dreaming with these ideas. De gea was as bad at GK stuff as Onana and he was even worse on the ball. There is a reason de gea was never picked up by any other serious club in the summer. Real Madrid, Bayern, Inter all needed GKs in the summer and he was literally available for free. De Gea has been bad statiscally for years

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Nope. This is a comparison of De gea last few seasons and Onana this season. Besides, How do you know this is peak Onana. Van der sar peaked in his 30s...until Onana ends his career, we cant know his peak.

No, this isn't a comparison thread. It's a thread about Onana. And so far, he's been poor. You can't assess him on what MIGHT happen. You can only assess him on what he's done so far. This is the third most expensive keeper of all time, who should be in his prime, remember.

 

[Mwooyo]

No, this isn't a comparison thread. It's a thread about Onana. And so far, he's been poor. You can't assess him on what MIGHT happen. You can only assess him on what he's done so far. This is the third most expensive keeper of all time, who should be in his prime, remember.

The moment you say he has been poor...you are introducing comparison. Poor as compared to who or what. Poor means there is a standard to be compared against. He has been at the same level as De gea was last season. Also, you keep missing this, we can NOT know if this is his prime until his career ends. Keepers regularly peak in their 30s. You pushing this prime idea is purely conjecture.

 

[frostbite]

The moment you say he has been poor...you are introducing comparison. Poor as compared to who or what. Poor means there is a standard to be compared against. He has been at the same level as De gea was last season. Also, you keep missing this, we can NOT know if this is his prime until his career ends. Keepers regularly peak in their 30s. You pushing this prime idea is purely conjecture.

Onana is not good enough for Man Utd. And we are not going to wait till he is 35 and magically transforms to VDS.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

The moment you say he has been poor...you are introducing comparison.

No, I'm not. You are. Or at least you're trying to. Onana has been poor. Look at the amount of catastrophic basic errors he's made so far which have led to goals.

Poor as compared to who or what. Poor means there is a standard to be compared against.

Poor, as a goalkeeper. As in, a player who keeps goal and tries to prevent the ball going in the net. That's his primary job.

He has been at the same level as De gea was last season. Also, you keep missing this, we can NOT know if this is his prime until his career ends. Keepers regularly peak in their 30s. You pushing this prime idea is purely conjecture.

Please stop talking about De Gea. I don't give a shit about him. And please stop talking about what MIGHT happen. It's not a valid argument.

 

[Mwooyo]

No, I'm not. You are. Or at least you're trying to. Onana has been poor. Look at the amount of catastrophic basic errors he's made so far which have led to goals.


Poor, as a goalkeeper. As in, a player who keeps goal and tries to prevent the ball going in the net. That's his primary job.


Please stop talking about De Gea. I don't give a shit about him. And please stop talking about what MIGHT happen. It's not a valid argument.

You still dont get it. Even in the keeping of the ball out of the net, there has to be comparison for you to say he is poor. What is the standard of a GK keeping the ball out of the net that he has not hit. He has above average shot save percentages...so Statiscally he is doing okay in the league. You can pretend about it but you can NOT avoid comparison.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

You still dont get it. Even in the keeping of the ball out of the net, there has to be comparison for you to say he is poor. What is the standard of a GK keeping the ball out of the net that he has not hit. He has above average shot save percentages...so Statiscally he is doing okay in the league. You can pretend about it but you can NOT avoid comparison.

One of us isn't getting it, that's for sure. You are trying to argue that one cannot say a person is poor at their job, without comparing them to someone else, who performs the same job. It's absolutely absurd.

"Officer Jackson, who shot 18 innocent children in error while performing his duties, is a poor police officer".

"You can't say that!"

This discussion is too stupid for words. I'm out.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Nah..keep dreaming with these ideas. De gea was as bad at GK stuff as Onana and he was even worse on the ball. There is a reason de gea was never picked up by any other serious club in the summer. Real Madrid, Bayern, Inter all needed GKs in the summer and he was literally available for free. De Gea has been bad statiscally for years

It's not a dream, it's just an opinion. It can't be proven or disproven, because DDG is not going to play this first half of the season. We are 20 games or so into Onanas career here, and at this point he has probably made a howler leading to an opposition goal every second game on average - I don't think that's exaggerating. De Gea had bad spells, but I don't remember him ever being this much of a disaster over a period of half a season after he got settled in.

 

[Reapersoul20]

DDG was never as bad as Onana has been for us so far. Onana may improve and is on an upward trajectory though.

 

[frostbite]

You still dont get it. Even in the keeping of the ball out of the net, there has to be comparison for you to say he is poor. What is the standard of a GK keeping the ball out of the net that he has not hit. He has above average shot save percentages...so Statiscally he is doing okay in the league. You can pretend about it but you can NOT avoid comparison.

So, you believe that Onana is doing well, and you want this to continue for the next few years, even till his 30s.

I disagree but it is nice that some fans like you enjoy his performances!

 

[Lost bear]

You still dont get it. Even in the keeping of the ball out of the net, there has to be comparison for you to say he is poor. What is the standard of a GK keeping the ball out of the net that he has not hit. He has above average shot save percentages...so Statiscally he is doing okay in the league. You can pretend about it but you can NOT avoid comparison.

Most of the comparison is, however, with a general idea of what a professional and reputable goalkeeper should be able to do. In my post I was certainly not comparing him with de Gea. Obviously every rating of anyone is in some sense comparative, but not to anyone specific here, I think.

 

[el3mel]

I think it's a comparison of the keeper we had last season to the one we have this season. Pretty reasonable really.
They're both pretty average shot stoppers, both capable of making big errors. De Gea could still occasionally pull out world class saves.

What's shown in part in that clip is how De Gea would gift the opposition chances with really poor distribution, that occurred so often it was actually ridiculous.

No it's not. We should have replaced De Gea with an elite keeper. Not with a keeper worse than De Gea at his prime.

 

[SirScholes]

Nope. This is a comparison of De gea last few seasons and Onana this season. Besides, How do you know this is peak Onana. Van der sar peaked in his 30s...until Onana ends his career, we cant know his peak.

VDS was quality throughout his career, at Juve his save % was just as impressive as at man Utd
he was renowned for being a reliable keeper that always made the good saves and sometimes the special saves. Where as Onana and to some extent De Gea near the end as only good at the spectacular saves and mediocre at the ones they should make
And those are the ones you face more as a goal keeper

 

[Mwooyo]

So, you believe that Onana is doing well, and you want this to continue for the next few years, even till his 30s.

I disagree but it is nice that some fans like you enjoy his performances!

Nope...don't get me wrong. He can do much better with his saves and closing down angles. I am NOT happy about that. He has cost us some goals...But to say we are worse than we were with De Gea last season is a huge lie. Said it before, we are conceding way too many shots on goal per game and it doesn't matter which GK we get, we would still concede unless we fix this dreaded 3-1-6 formation. Onana is not the root cause of our problems...He should be much better but so should the rest of the team. Even if Lisandro and Casemiro return but we keep leaving Casemiro/Mainoo/Amrabat as the sole DM when the opposition are transitioning, we will still concede a ton of goals. I think for Onana, it will be like Ten Hag...give them till the season's end...the decision will be obvious by the season's end.

 

[sebsheep]

No it's not. We should have replaced De Gea with an elite keeper. Not with a keeper worse than De Gea at his prime.

With the ball he is better than De Gea in his prime.
Just y'know a good bit worse at the saving stuff...

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

De gea was and still is bobbins. I miss him not

 

[Mwooyo]

One of us isn't getting it, that's for sure. You are trying to argue that one cannot say a person is poor at their job, without comparing them to someone else, who performs the same job. It's absolutely absurd.

"Officer Jackson, who shot 18 innocent children in error while performing his duties, is a poor police officer".

"You can't say that!"

This discussion is too stupid for words. I'm out.

Yup...See even in courts of law, there is the concept of a "reasonable person" and that is the standard against which most actions are judged. How would a reasonable officer act in said circumstances vs Officer Jackson? You can't get away from comparison no matter how hard you run

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Yup...See even in courts of law, there is the concept of a "reasonable person" and that is the standard against which most actions are judged. How would a reasonable officer act in said circumstances vs Officer Jackson? You can't get away from comparison no matter how hard you run

Your argument is complete nonsense, as I've already established. How a "reasonable officer would act" is completely irrelevant. It has zero impact on the crimes committed.

Jimmy Saville is a poor babysitter. I don't need to compare him to other babysitters to be objectively correct in that statement.

 

[Mwooyo]

Your argument is complete nonsense, as I've already established. How a "reasonable officer would act" is completely irrelevant. It has zero impact on the crimes committed.

Jimmy Saville is a poor babysitter. I don't need to compare him to other babysitters to be objectively correct in that statement.

Bro, you keep making your own universe up as you go along...even when provided real world proof that comparisons are at the root of every kind of assessment or judgement. If even the law has comparisons but somehow its only you who thinks it is possible to judge without a standard...am done... believe whatever you need to believe. Doesn't change the fact that Onana compared to De Gea is an upgrade in all aspects. Onana compared to other keepers in the league fits right in with them based on all GK stats and is elite on the ball

 

[el3mel]

With the ball he is better than De Gea in his prime.
Just y'know a good bit worse at the saving stuff...

Which is his main job as a goalkeeper ?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Bro, you keep making your own universe up as you go along...even when provided real world proof that comparisons are at the root of every kind of assessment or judgement. If even the law has comparisons but somehow its only you who thinks it is possible to judge without a standard...am done... believe whatever you need to believe. Doesn't change the fact that Onana compared to De Gea is an upgrade in all aspects. Onana compared to other keepers in the league fits right in with them based on all GK stats and is elite on the ball

You haven't provided anything other than easily refuted nonsense.

The only reason YOU are so desperately trying to compare him to the De Gea of last season, is because you think it makes Onana look less shit.

And don't confuse your opinion with a fact. Many posters here will tell you that even this De Gea is a better shot stopper than Onana.

 

[sebsheep]

Which is his main job as a goalkeeper ?

Yeah, but it's more of a sliding scale because how much of that is required will depend on how the team plays.
How many currently playing goalkeepers do you know of who match peak De Gea in shot stopping and are very good on the ball?

 

[Mwooyo]

You haven't provided anything other than easily refuted nonsense.

The only reason YOU are so desperately trying to compare him to the De Gea of last season, is because you think it makes Onana look less shit.

And don't confuse your opinion with a fact. Many posters here will tell you that even this De Gea is a better shot stopper than Onana.

I think am the only one who has provided any form of reference. You have provided nada. Fact is fact, bro..."Reasonable person" is a real concept in law...stats are real facts. YOU just want to say he is so bad without providing any basis for your statements. It's all in your head...You have made up your mind and when we point out these other real-world facts you scream "I don't need to compare with anyone...I know he is bad in the universe in my head". You still say nonsense like he is De Gea is a better shot-stopper than Onana even when the stats and eye test confirm otherwise. Nobody is saying Onana is perfect, but he is an upgrade on De Gea in all areas based on facts like stats and eye tests...

 

[el3mel]

Yeah, but it's more of a sliding scale because how much of that is required will depend on how the team plays.
How many currently playing goalkeepers do you know of who match peak De Gea in shot stopping and are very good on the ball?

They don't match prime De Gea but they're still very good shot stoppers. I mean you can't actually become a goalkeeper of a big team unless you can save things. If you're costing them goals you won't last. Onana's problem is that he's not just an average shot stopper. He's a terrible one. He makes a lot of mistakes and even when he saves ordinary shots, his technique sucks.

He wouldn't have been a big of an issue if he was an above average goalkeeper who can play well with his feel. I mean I was actually planning for that. Review my earlier posts on him in his first game. I said we would have to adapt to the fact he won't have superhuman reflexes like De Gea and won't save us from certain goals like him so we'll have to adapt to that and try to benefit from his strength points. I had no issue with that and was adapting myself to it.

What surprised me is that he didn't turn out to be an above average shot stopper. He's actually a terrible one! He costed us games with his godawful ability to block shots. That's unacceptable for me.

 

[frostbite]

Nope...don't get me wrong. He can do much better with his saves and closing down angles. I am NOT happy about that. He has cost us some goals...But to say we are worse than we were with De Gea last season is a huge lie. Said it before, we are conceding way too many shots on goal per game and it doesn't matter which GK we get, we would still concede unless we fix this dreaded 3-1-6 formation. Onana is not the root cause of our problems...He should be much better but so should the rest of the team. Even if Lisandro and Casemiro return but we keep leaving Casemiro/Mainoo/Amrabat as the sole DM when the opposition are transitioning, we will still concede a ton of goals. I think for Onana, it will be like Ten Hag...give them till the season's end...the decision will be obvious by the season's end.

So, you believe that so far Onana is not good enough. You just hope that in the future he will be better than that. However, that's only a hope, the reality is that is that he hasn't been good enough so far. I agree. It is unfortunate that we wasted 50 million on a goalkeeper and he hasn't been good enough. For that price, he should be winning us games, but Onana lost us games. We finished at the bottom of our CL group because Onana cost us goals.

 

[sebsheep]

They don't match prime De Gea but they're still very good shot stoppers. I mean you can't actually become a goalkeeper of a big team unless you can save things. If you're costing them goals you won't last. Onana's problem is that he's not just an average shot stopper. He's a terrible one. He makes a lot of mistakes and even when he saves ordinary shots, his technique sucks.

He wouldn't have been a big of an issue if he was an above average goalkeeper who can play well with his feel. I mean I was actually planning for that. Review my earlier posts on him in his first game. I said we would have to adapt to the fact he won't have superhuman reflexes like De Gea and won't save us from certain goals like him so we'll have to adapt to that and try to benefit from his strength points. I had no issue with that and was adapting myself to it.

What surprised me is that he didn't turn out to be an above average shot stopper. He's actually a terrible one! He costed us games with his godawful ability to block shots. That's unacceptable for me.

He's been average at shot stopping, not terrible.
We're conceding a lot more shots than we should be and he has a pretty decent save percentage.
As you said you don't become a goalkeeper at a top side if you don't save things, he was #1 at an Inter team that went to the CL final last season, easy run or not.

 

[Marcus]

I think Onana will come good. His save percentages are decent. Just that United concede so many shots.

 

[Sir Matt]

He's been at fault for 10+ goals this season on his own and knocked us out of the Champions League with his mistakes. I can't find the video of his errors from after the Galatasaray match, but, if he didn't make another mistake for the rest of the season, he'd still have made too many mistakes this season. United won't progress with such an error prone keeper as the starter, but, as with numerous other recent signings, he'll cripple United's ability to replace him because of FFP.

 

[NLunited]

The moment you say he has been poor...you are introducing comparison. Poor as compared to who or what. Poor means there is a standard to be compared against. He has been at the same level as De gea was last season. Also, you keep missing this, we can NOT know if this is his prime until his career ends. Keepers regularly peak in their 30s. You pushing this prime idea is purely conjecture.

Same level as DeGea? Nah man, the difference is in playing out the back, Onana doesn’t shit himself like DeGea did.

 

[NLunited]

Shot stopping is last of his problem. His decision making on short passing is alarmingly poor. With opposition players inside our box, he would insist on passing it to a CB, who with any common sense, can only pass it back to the keeper. Any minor error, meant a gift.

Why thank you for that indispensable insight.

There is actually very little wrong with his passing: he frequently bypasses the press.

 

[cyril C]

Why thank you for that indispensable insight.

There is actually very little wrong with his passing: he frequently bypasses the press.

Forgotten whether it was 85th or 90th min into the game, Onana made a short pass to Kambwala inside the box, with 2 opposition players 10y on either side. Kambwala immediately passed it back to Onana, who then kick it long.

Luckily Kambwala was focus and made a perfect response. If it was Pogba, who would probably tried to make a Zidene turn inside his own box and tried to pass 3 players before releasing an inch perfect pass to Garnacho, if he can. If this is not a walking time bomb, tell me what is.

 

[NLunited]

Forgotten whether it was 85th or 90th min into the game, Onana made a short pass to Kambwala inside the box, with 2 opposition players 10y on either side. Kambwala immediately passed it back to Onana, who then kick it long.

Luckily Kambwala was focus and made a perfect response. If it was Pogba, who would probably tried to make a Zidene turn inside his own box and tried to pass 3 players before releasing an inch perfect pass to Garnacho, if he can. If this is not a walking time bomb, tell me what is.

You can say the same about every ball-playing gk. Klopp, Guardiola, Xavi, De Zerbi etc think it is worth the risk.

It is true that our defence needs to get more settled which will improve the chemistry with Onana.

Until then, enjoy the excitement.

 

[K stand Red]

I am not going to make a comparison but my own observations he is not a quality keeper, he is average if not poor on crosses, shot stopping/positioning is poor in part down to poor foot movement and will lead to shots you may have expected to be saved going in or rebounding off him and there has been multiple examples already of such which have lead to goals

 

[Sky1981]

I think am the only one who has provided any form of reference. You have provided nada. Fact is fact, bro..."Reasonable person" is a real concept in law...stats are real facts. YOU just want to say he is so bad without providing any basis for your statements. It's all in your head...You have made up your mind and when we point out these other real-world facts you scream "I don't need to compare with anyone...I know he is bad in the universe in my head". You still say nonsense like he is De Gea is a better shot-stopper than Onana even when the stats and eye test confirm otherwise. Nobody is saying Onana is perfect, but he is an upgrade on De Gea in all areas based on facts like stats and eye tests...

You need to see an optometrist

 

[cyril C]

You can say the same about every ball-playing gk. Klopp, Guardiola, Xavi, De Zerbi etc think it is worth the risk.

It is true that our defence needs to get more settled which will improve the chemistry with Onana.

Until then, enjoy the excitement.

On the 5th min, yes it would be worth the risk. Having said that, should you be more careful with a rookie?

On 90th, sitting on a 1 goal lead, what is the risk for? Get another goal? Someone might get a hat trick? Headless, is the only word that I can think of.

 

[World Game]

If your defence concedes 0.1xG shots 10 times, on average you will concede 1 goal. The goal you concede though will be from a 0.1xG chance so it looks bad even though that is the expected outcome.

In 20 games Onana has a +2.9 xG prevented which means he's actually saved 2.9 more goals than average. For reference last season DDG finished with a -0.7 xG prevented which meant he conceded more goals than expected. Having said that, Onana has been at fault for some of the xG we've conceded from mistakes such as fumbled saves and not claiming crosses. However he hasn't been as bad as the fanbase has made out.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Flop/Deadwood.

 

[NLunited]

He is very composed on the ball. In our current state, DeGea would be so much worse for us.

We need players who have composure and nerve. That is Onana

 

[oreon]

Looks like it. But I wouldn't change him in the summer. This season is practically over. We are not making top 4 and we are not winning a trophy. So for the new players who just come in this summer, I'm giving them a pass. Everyone else except the young kids i.e Garnacho, Maino etc should go. That includes Rashford and I'd consider Fernandes for the right fee.
Onano, Mount I'd give them next season to prove their worth. Hollund is a long term project, you have to give him 3 - 4 years to develop.
We won't be able to replace everyone in a summer, the players that should stay are the ones that haven't gotten a fair shake. Everyone else needs to go if Ineos is serious about turn around.
Martinez should stay, he has been consistent when healthy