Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Was interesting listening to Alastair Campbell the other day about the electorate going back to the Tories in the months before an election and polls tightening.

Let's see if the new new Labour strategy works out
 
Fully Fledged said:
Leftwingers don't want a Labour victory. They want a hung parliament so that he has to commit to PR to get into power.
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Yes, that's probably true, the problem is history tells us that hung parliaments don't bring PR.

What is likely to happen is Labour, without a sizeable majority will attempt to struggle on, either as the largest party, or with a slim majority. Thereby being in government but not in with the power to make real changes.

Next GE the Tory's will get back again and the 'merry-go-round' starts again, it's a political reality in the UK that no party that wins a sizeable majority under FPTP will ever vote for PR, it's the 'turkey's voting for Christmas' stuff! In any case there is then the problem of deciding what sort of PR system would we have?

One of the problems of us not having a written Constitution.
 
Drainy said:
Was interesting listening to Alastair Campbell the other day about the electorate going back to the Tories in the months before an election and polls tightening.

Let's see if the new new Labour strategy works out
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That's just a political reality for Labour and there's no getting away from it. Labour will need around a 12% lead to get the majority they want and voting intention polling is always wide of the mark by a hefty margin 6-12 months out.

What's the gap now 19%? It doesn't leave a lot of room at all. All these landslide calculations based on current polling paint a very misleading picture.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yes, that's probably true, the problem is history tells us that hung parliaments don't bring PR.

What is likely to happen is Labour, without a sizeable majority will attempt to struggle on, either as the largest party, or with a slim majority. Thereby being in government but not in with the power to make real changes.

Next GE the Tory's will get back again and the 'merry-go-round' starts again, it's a political reality in the UK that no party that wins a sizeable majority under FPTP will ever vote for PR, it's the 'turkey's voting for Christmas' stuff! In any case there is then the problem of deciding what sort of PR system would we have?

One of the problems of us not having a written Constitution.
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You want a written constitution? Like other democracies? Which ensures power is constrained and gives citizens enforceable rights? But that's not how we do things...
 
Frosty said:
You want a written constitution? Like other democracies? Which ensures power is constrained and gives citizens enforceable rights? But that's not how we do things...
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nickm said:
I'd take that bet. Look at the telegraphs polling today. Real Tory panic for the first time today. Most likely outcome is a massive labour majority of over 100 but the Tories getting wiped out down to 70 or seats isn't completely unrealistic. I think the country has made its mind up it's time for a change.
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Shame we won't actually get much of it when Labour win
 
Maticmaker said:
Only in a 'time-travel' context and if H G Wells is involved.

Staying relevant hasn't done us much good, in my lifetime, cost us sh** loads of money and lives in wars we should never have been involved in. Harold Wilson was the last PM to refuse to get involved in conflicts that were nothing to do with us,

"The more things change the more they stay the same"!!! (someone once said)
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The wars we've been in recently have nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the US. Moving away from the EU will inevitably lead to us moving closer to the Americans. No doubt that will involve us getting dragged into whatever shenanigans they engage in. We've been happy enough to do that voluntarily the past few decades but retaining the ability to stay out of it would be nice.
 
Frosty said:
You want a written constitution? Like other democracies? Which ensures power is constrained and gives citizens enforceable rights? But that's not how we do things...
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We do have written constitution(s) that provides all that, we just don't have a single codified constitution.

We wouldn't need a codified constitution for PR it'd just need new/amended constitutions to be written.

The idea of a single codified constitution sounds appealing but it depends who forms it doesn't it. It could easily be detrimental and hinder progress (see the US).
 
Bert_ said:
The wars we've been in recently have nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the US. Moving away from the EU will inevitably lead to us moving closer to the Americans. No doubt that will involve us getting dragged into whatever shenanigans they engage in. We've been happy enough to do that voluntarily the past few decades but retaining the ability to stay out of it would be nice.
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Harold Wilson, was last British PM to turn down the US invitation 'to get involved' ....with Vietnam. Perhaps Wilson was trying to convince General de Gaulle to reverse his 'non' to our entry to the EEC, to prove we were not going to be the US insider in the EEC?

Actually, I was referring to your comment about keeping Britain relevant... the question being, who benefits from Britain being relevant? Being in or out of the EU makes no difference, both the EU and us go where we are pushed by the US, because the US bares the brunt of NATO costs (well it will until Trump gets back!).

Frosty said:
You want a written constitution? Like other democracies? Which ensures power is constrained and gives citizens enforceable rights? But that's not how we do things...
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Indeed, and anyone hoping we might change is living in a dream world, 'precedence' is what governs us in reality and who set the precedents?
 
Drainy said:
Was interesting listening to Alastair Campbell the other day about the electorate going back to the Tories in the months before an election and polls tightening.

Let's see if the new new Labour strategy works out
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Will definitely happen. The right wing press will be in full election mode in line with Tory campaigns while they attack Labour.
 
Giggsyking said:
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He wasn't in the running to become PM then.

What you say and do in opposition can be a lot different to when you are the PM.

Sadly, but its a fact of life that millions of people seem to forget, reality changes everything.
 
esmufc07 said:
He’s nowhere near the top 5%!
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Pretty sure the next day there was a daily mail article talking about this guy love of expensive motor bikes.

For whatever reason rich people in the UK both want to keep all their wealth and also say they are working class. It’s very unusual.
 
Maticmaker said:
He wasn't in the running to become PM then.

What you say and do in opposition can be a lot different to when you are the PM.

Sadly, but its a fact of life that millions of people seem to forget, reality changes everything.
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You're right. Let's just accept that politicians never need to have any integrity or stand by their beliefs or promises. They should just be able to flip flop around constantly on any issue, and then gaslight people into thinking they're not doing that
 
Fully Fledged said:
Am I the only person who would rather have properly funded, NHS, Education System, Police Force, and Welfare System than lower taxes?
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Normally I'd agree, but spending has been so bad over the last decade that we've managed to simultaneously make virtually all infrastructure worse and raise taxes to one of the highest levels they've ever been.
 
Balljy said:
Normally I'd agree, but spending has been so bad over the last decade that we've managed to simultaneously make virtually all infrastructure worse and raise taxes to one of the highest levels they've ever been.
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I am honestly shocked that Joel and Avram Glazer are not in charge of the UK.
 
Ibi Dreams said:
You're right. Let's just accept that politicians never need to have any integrity or stand by their beliefs or promises. They should just be able to flip flop around constantly on any issue, and then gaslight people into thinking they're not doing that
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Your learning!...I have a lifetime of such experiences, yet I still amble along to the polling booth at Election time. Why you might ask? (or not)... because now and again you come across that rare politician who isn't grandstanding, and does believe in what they saying (even if I disagreed) and does carry out what they say they will. Maggie Thatcher was one.... however beliefs more acceptable to me, were Frank Field and the late Tony Lloyd.
 
RedSky said:
Nope, she's in the right party right now. Labour under Starmer is just Tories 2.

Starmers constant flip flopping simply shows the lack of integrity the guy has. His opinions are all based on political feedback rather than his own beliefs.
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Starmer is a populist like so many of the current politicians.

Sounds as if they're preparing the public to say they're not going to do anything because there's no money and they've no idea how to get the country moving forward or grow the economy. Starmer, Reeves, Streeting, Cooper - don't inspire much hope.

"At least we're not the Tories" will be what they'll run on, despite writing his 5 mission fantasy waffle, version 3 or 4, lost track. they're all roughly the same but the latest one has a large photo of Starmer in a camouflage jacket.
 
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Ibi Dreams said:
You're right. Let's just accept that politicians never need to have any integrity or stand by their beliefs or promises. They should just be able to flip flop around constantly on any issue, and then gaslight people into thinking they're not doing that
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Isn't that exactly the problem that Corbyn had, however? He was so rigid in his positions and beliefs (as laudible as some were), that he was easily skewered by the press and opponents for his inflexibility (see: Brexit, the Middle East, etc)? Pragmatism isn't a bad thing.
 
Phil Jones Face said:
Isn't that exactly the problem that Corbyn had, however? He was so rigid in his positions and beliefs (as laudible as some were), that he was easily skewered by the press and opponents for his inflexibility (see: Brexit, the Middle East, etc)? Pragmatism isn't a bad thing.
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Pragmatism good. Complete abandonment of anything you've ever believed in, or indeed campaigned on, not so good.
 
Phil Jones Face said:
Isn't that exactly the problem that Corbyn had, however? He was so rigid in his positions and beliefs (as laudible as some were), that he was easily skewered by the press and opponents for his inflexibility (see: Brexit, the Middle East, etc)? Pragmatism isn't a bad thing.
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Corbyn would have been skewered by the press whatever he said or did. What is the point in playing on the fence mealy mouthed politics when they're just going to lie and misrepresent you anyway? They consistently did that to him even when he had actual positions that could have been fairly criticised
 
Dobba said:
The Israel has the right to commit war crimes guy has stepped back onto the stage for his encore.

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The spineless coward has definitely seen the clip, he just can't bring himself to admit the obvious fact that it was a war crime at risk of upsetting the likes of Rachel Riley and Luciana Berger.

It's ok though, he'll wheel out his usual lip service as to how Palestinians probably do deserve a state.
 
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