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Westminster Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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You're right. Might as well vote Tory while we're at it.
You are. This version of Labour is basically the 2010-2015 Tory party.
It's just that the political landscape has shifted so far right that the current Tories are even worse.
On a day when the news ought to be focusing on Labour Green Agenda U turn, it seems that the narrative is more about Sunak stupid comment yesterday about what a woman is.
Has Starmer got away with it. Hope not because while I support Labour, I am annoyed at the watering down of a clear election pledge.
Especially on the day that we all learnt that our planet has warmed +1.5C.
Has Starmer got away with it. Hope not because while I support Labour, I am annoyed at the watering down of a clear election pledge.
Especially on the day that we all learnt that our planet has warmed +1.5C.
What do we do though?
Sunak refusing to apologise. Hateful little worm.
Apparently trying to link the words coming out of his mouth with how it might affect certain people in attendance is the "worst of politics".
Yeah, and I absolutely hate how far we've shifted. I'm just detecting hints, yet again, of "don't vote Labour because they're just as bad" from some folk when we saw how that turned out last time. South Park's douche and turd episode springs to my mind.
I don't think either come off well here - to politicise and point score over the tragic death of Brianna Ghey just shows how far our politicians and parties have fallen. We're living in truly desperate and pathetic times when we have idiots like Sunak and Starmer as the best representatives of the two biggest political parties. England is finished, man.
Also, what was the jibe (re the 99% bit)? That totally went over my head.
Don't worry, they'll be fine this time. They're appealing to the hateful majority of Britons. You can safely vote Green and The Tories won't get it. If enough of us do it, they might even start thinking there's some voter capital in not totally fecking up the world.
Is it that trans people are 0.1% of the population?
Does make you wonder. Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing?
I heard this argument on the radio earlier. That it was actually Starmer who conflated Sunak’s comments with Brianna Ghey’s mother being in the house and therefore it is Starmer that is political point scoring. I’m no fan of Starmer but honestly that is such a tenuous argument. Flip it on its head and Starmer says nothing and it’s Starmer that is taking all the flack because he let the comment go without highlighting how inappropriate it was. He was right to highlight it and to suggest otherwise it’s both sides bollocks.
It is a priority for the media and politicians, who both crave the spotlight, they raise the issue in ways that attract attention. Yes, they know it cannot be solved quickly, without proper due diligence and a comprehensive migrant policy to back it up and that takes time, so they 'suck it up' with the public, takes peoples minds of energy bills, etc.
Of course, remember Farage and his warning of millions of Romanians (under freedom of movement) turning up in the UK, its was this fear that the eastern EU countries will seek higher wages in the UK than they could get in their own country and in so doing affect wage rates in the UK. It was true in some cases but much over blown by Farage and his ilk! This kind of media coverage was the sort that remainers (in government) failed to address properly and it fueled some support for Brexit, especially with those living outside the main UK conurbations.
Paul you make regular comments here and elsewhere about how stupid its was to vote for Brexit, but you fail to also shed light on how weak and ineffective the Remainers were in countering such arguments... and the reason is because at the time, they couldn't. Like all successful lies, somewhere inside is elements of truth, Farage and co. were very successful in ensuring this essential ingredient in the issue of immigration.
It doesn't directly, companies in many parts of the UK economy have had to raise salaries in the traditional low paid jobs, especially after Covid and as you say after many people in the UK have been declaring themselves inactive in the labour market. Because of the low numbers available it became a 'rob Peter to pay Paul] (not you of course). EU workers as you rightly say are being paid better in their home countries and wont travel to the UK for work, so workers from the third world are sought. Trades Unions in the UK are at an all time low in their effectiveness, because when they get 'sandbagged' by employers they still tend reach for the 'strike' weapon, to solve all problems, not just pay rates. Consequently it will be up to Starmer to change this mentality, one way he might do it is to get something like the ITB's up and running again... but don't hold your breath!
Not at all, as I've said in other posts, it was my experience in the UK that the companies I met who spent more time, trouble and expense getting their recruitment, training and management development right, were inevitably foreign owned. This issue in the UK pre-dates the EEC, let alone the EU, joining the EEC in the 70's did nudge UK employers to up their game, but not as much as it was required. This is an urgent problem for Starmer when he takes power, but I have to admit I doubt if it will get the attention it needs, not in a first term anyway... but we live in hope.
Well I certainly didnt see that U-turn coming from Starmer. I'd post a pikachu shock face but this is meant to be a serious forum.
Paul at least someone besides us two reads our posts... 15 mins of fame
As opposed to voting for them and teaching them they can make promises then change their mind when they feel like grabbing someone else's vote or courting some other lobby.
This should be a moment for self-reflection on their part, not recriminations for people who feel alienated by their politics and bait and switches.
Is that the joke? What's the punchline - that trans folks make up a small percentage of the UK population? And agree - it's given disproportionate coverage but it's part of the overall culture war taking place. Sunak (and Starmer) know this.
I think both are cnuts for politicising it.
(Did Sunak know her mother was in the chamber?) If he did - he should have avoided mentioning anything at all about it - there's a litany of U-turns that Starmer's made without even having to use the trans stuff. So that's why he's a cnut (if he knew she was there). If he didn't know she was there, he's still a cnut.
Starmer is obviously going to weaponise that in this charade anyway, despite Labour U-turning on their trans pledges. So that's why he's a cnut.
I just feel bad for the mum - having to sit through this bollocks while these two cnuts, who really don't give a shit about her dead daughter, are going back and forth with barbs and insults. The state of this country is in the gutter.
So you don't think the economic health of the country has changed at all in this last few years?
How can it not be linked? One of the murderers holds transphobic beliefs.
Rishi Sunak attacks Keir Starmer for linking trans jibe with Brianna Ghey case
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68237826
Why can't we feck Sunak off to Rwanda and Piers can win his bet?
Rishi Sunak attacks Keir Starmer for linking trans jibe with Brianna Ghey case
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68237826
Why can't we feck Sunak off to Rwanda and Piers can win his bet?
But you’re ignoring my point. What do you think would have filled the media headlines if Starmer decided not to hold Sunak to account for his comments?
Oh I absolutely do, but I happen to think the climate is a priority issue that can't be put off, I don't want to see my daughter's generation let down, and it will also feed into energy, immigration* and employment. I also feel strongly about Trans rights and they've let me down there.
*Everyone wants to pretend they'll deal with immigration but always on a superficial level, rather than attacking the causes, of which climate change will be a huge driver in the coming decades. I'm less concerned about immigration to be honest, but I'd like to see these point scorers actually admit we have a role to play on a wider scale and contributed to crises that are already occurring.
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this argument used by the tories of their opponents 'politicising' things / playing politics, when they criticise tory behaviour is so pathetic, and yet it clearly does resonate with some of the population, as they use it again and again. at the next election, it should a question (after youve shown your ID), do you think the opposition are politicising issues, which is abhorrent and so unfair?, if the person answers yes, then they should be taken out the back and shot.
Sunak would come off looking worse if Starmer hadn’t said anything. The dad has called on Sunak to apologise which I’d assume he would have done anyway, and other political commentators would have picked up on it. (Big if).
You may be right of course and Starmer would have got more flack for not saying anything at all.
I find this whole situation just so callous being done in front of a mum who’s lost their daughter.
I thought that article read like it had been written by the Tory campaign team so looked up the author Kate Whannel and the first article I found was this wonderful 50p Lee puff piece.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66998184
I think this Labour party leadership are hyper focused on polling, public perception and winning the next election at all costs, and are running more to the centre than they would naturally be because of public sentiment and the right wing media due to political pragmatism.
I may be delusional though since it's a hope.
The Remain lobby in the UK was pathetic and still is. Labour were absolutely hopeless. Trying to pretend Corbyn was pro remain was ridiculous and the Tories who supported remain were too. There were just too many lies. Remember when 80 million Turks were going to come.
Meanwhile the UK had all the power to put the minimum wage at whatever level they liked. The levels set by the EU were the absolute minimums.
The biggest problem was that people didn't really understand what they were voting for, only what they were told they were voting for.
Nothing much has changed in that respect and remainers wanting to join the single market and/or the CU without joining the EU obviously still don't fully understand either.
The bottom line is that governments and parties use the flag waving and xenophobia to distract the electorate away from their own incompetence. It works.
Has it changed much since two days ago when Starmer was still pretending the policy was going ahead?
We’ve got a by election next week because Chris Skidmore resigned. The Labour campaigner that knocked on my door I pressed fairly hard because I’m horrified with the direction Labour is moving. She claimed that how Labour campaign and how Labour will govern is two different things and she’s been involved in meetings at the heart of Labour and they’re still working closely, albeit quietly with Unions.
I’ll believe it when I see it, it sounds like a line to sate progressives and actions speak louder than words and both their actions and their public words are doing nothing but shift the Overton window right at the moment.
I think the tactic is to cut the Tories off the centre ground to soak up moderate vote, and cause division in the Tories and pushing them further right making them even less electable.
After being principled and getting nowhere close to winning outside of when the Tories told their core voters that they wanted to steal their children's inheritance I can see why they have adopted the stance.
Obviously the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so we'll (hopefully) see how they govern and hopefully see attempts to win the argument on why centre left politics are to the benefit of everyone.
I reckon 90% of Tory Mp's would take the chance to definitely be Prime minister for 6 months rather than be leader of the opposition for 5 years.
There's a feeling amongst some of them that she'd limit the scale of the defeat, and I sort of think they might be right. The only hope that the Tories have now is to win back disenchanted ex tory voters and I think Mordaunt would be more likely to do that.
That might be a reasonable argument if they'd have adjusted all their policies together off the back of an OBR/treasury modelling
As it is they seemingly do it with no clear rationale and it's impossible to know week to week which policies they'll drop. Truly can anyone say what the priority is of this Labour leadership? They claim a key priority one week and then drop it the next.
And that's a completely fair, rational argument (which for what it's worth I completely agree with).
My only issue is that, the country is so broken, that committing so much to any single cause is going to draw so much heat away from others (even though it's probably the only way to actually go about it). When you think about the 'main' issues, and this is just off the top of my head:
- CPS backlog, lacking numbers of lawyers & judges, courthouses etc in a state of decay
- Prisons at a horrific point of overcrowding, more needing to be built, and many in a state of decay
- Police, staffing & wages, dealing with institutional issues
- Schooling, staffing and wages, outdated education practices, buildings falling apart, CAMHS backlogs and SEN provisions lacking in so many area
- NHS, where to f*cking start
- Dentistry, see above, people literally pulling out their teeth
- Benefits
- Infrastructure, roads in disrepair, housing targets, social housing etc
Their priority is not to spook the markets and cost the country £50 billion like Lizz Truss. Then do what they can afford to do.
I know its crazy.
I know its crazy.
Did she not realise this means she is saying the party is lying to the public in order to win votes ?
Oh you don’t agree with Starmer well don’t worry he is actually just lying all the time! I guess the lack of policy means this is the only “argument” they’ve got but it seems very strange to brag about to voters.
A political party which would completely change policy when in power would be pretty bad for any democracy regardless of their politics.
We live in a strange world where both insane media like GB news and labour campaigners agree there is a socialist conspiracy to take over the British government by stealth.
Why is he smirking when talking about a serious matter? I really despise this cnut.
I would agree with most of the above, however, the highlighted bit though I think is almost always true, and it's a mistake that Cameron failed to avoid. Having recently won a GE, seen off the SNP on independence, he was 'cock-a-hoop' and going for the treble, mainly to see off his 'bother-boys' in the Tory party who had always wanted out. What he failed to see was that whilst there was one clear reason for voting remain, there were umpteen reasons, real and imagined for voting to leave, and that's what did for him... and for staying in the EU. With 52% believing that leaving the EU would solve 'their' particular grumble.
Que Sera, Sera!
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Mass civil disobedience.
Personally I believe we're at the point now where maintaining the status quo and continuing with the political system we have is only going to further increase inequality and exacerbate the issues we're facing.
Things aren't going to get better under neo liberalism and still believing that Starmer getting into power will make any sort of difference is genuinely mind boggling. Even worse is people somehow acting like he's the only option we have to bring about meaningful change.