Because the general principle still applies.
Maybe. We'll see. I personally don't have expectation of this leading to much but there's always hope I guess. I am cynical about all these court cases in general.
Donald Trump - GUILTY!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Because the general principle still applies.
Maybe. We'll see. I personally don't have expectation of this leading to much but there's always hope I guess. I am cynical about all these court cases in general.
Trump's youngest son Barron 'declines' to be RNC delegate, his mother Melania says
"While Barron is honored to have been chosen as a delegate by the Florida Republican Party, he regretfully declines to participate due to prior commitments," a spokeswoman for Mrs Trump said in a statement.
"While Barron is honored to have been chosen as a delegate by the Florida Republican Party, he regretfully declines to participate due to prior commitments," a spokeswoman for Mrs Trump said in a statement.
WTF 
Doesn’t get the attention but his cognition is worse than Biden’s.
WTF
Is this for real?
For sure. He's been talking complete gibberish for at least a decade so his cognitive decline is less obvious but it's clear to see.
WTF
Kinda surprising Trump can remember that detail off the top of his head. Doubt it was in the speech. He must have great taste movies.
Absolutely, but we all know that the GOP is hijacked by the loons. The Ds are supposed to be the ones that saves US from them or that is all that they base the eleccions with. If you dont vote them, trump wins. But you are presenting ah mental declined octogenary that is prone to support genocidy thingies
If the media did their job, they should pummel on the bastard for exhibiting such obvious cognitive deficiency.
I wonder if Trump has spent more time in a courtroom than anyone else in human history (who isn't working in law)
Not John Gotti levels just yet.
Vivek - Still hoping for VP
Doug Burgum - Probably leading the VP stakes at the moment
Mike Johnson - Needs Trump's support against Marge Green
Doug Burgum - Probably leading the VP stakes at the moment
Mike Johnson - Needs Trump's support against Marge Green
The way his arms move and mouth makes sounds is like one of those robotics at amusement parks and whatnot.
I think the chances of Trump being charged in the hush money trial in NY has gone from slim to zero.
Cohen f*cked it. He told the jury he called Trumps bodyguard in order to get Trump on the phone to tell him about the Stormy payment. The call lasted 90 seconds.
He neglected to tell them that there were a bunch of texts between Cohen and the bodyguard just prior, and after, about Cohen getting harrased by a 14yo prank caller. That was the purpose of the call, so its a stretch to say in 90 seconds that the phone was also passed to Trump to talk about Stormy.
Why the prosecution didnt pick up on this prior, i dont know. But the defence did and it has made it look like Cohen made it up.
It wasn't mentioned to the grand jury and it wasn't brought up when the prosecution questioned him, which would have been the time to get the story straight.
Its over. Cohen is a liar and there is enough reasonable doubt to either equit or for there to be a hung jury.
Cohen f*cked it. He told the jury he called Trumps bodyguard in order to get Trump on the phone to tell him about the Stormy payment. The call lasted 90 seconds.
He neglected to tell them that there were a bunch of texts between Cohen and the bodyguard just prior, and after, about Cohen getting harrased by a 14yo prank caller. That was the purpose of the call, so its a stretch to say in 90 seconds that the phone was also passed to Trump to talk about Stormy.
Why the prosecution didnt pick up on this prior, i dont know. But the defence did and it has made it look like Cohen made it up.
It wasn't mentioned to the grand jury and it wasn't brought up when the prosecution questioned him, which would have been the time to get the story straight.
Its over. Cohen is a liar and there is enough reasonable doubt to either equit or for there to be a hung jury.
You posted the exact same post in the 2024 US Elections thread!
Deleted after seeing this is the more appropriate thread.
And responding to you from the other thread...
Yes, i realise. Im using "Hush Money Trial" because that is what CNN and others are calling it...
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/16/politics/takeaways-trump-trial-michael-cohen-thursday/index.html
My point was, Cohen has f*cked it. Way too many lies, way too many inconsistencies. That call made to Trumps body man, Keith Schiller, which Cohen claimed was the one he made to inform Trump of paying Stormy, well it just doesnt add up because the texts prior and post were related to Cohen asking Trumps body guard to help with prank calls from a 14 year old.
How the prosecution didnt see those text to Trumps body guard about Cohen getting prank calls is beyond me.They should have seen that they were made in the run up to the October 24th call, that Cohen had claimed was the one where he informed Trump that the payment was made. Its a major cock up.
The best he can say now is that Trumps body guard passed the phone over to Trump after discussing the prank calls. Clearly, Cohens focus was on the prank calls, not the Stormy payment.
And if that is they case, when why didn't Cohen recall this when brought in front of the grand jury, or this one?
I wouldn't be surprised if the defence bring in Keith Schiller next week to tell the jury that he never passed the phone over to Trump. That would crush any credibility that Cohen has left.
There is no evidence presented that Trump has falsifying business records. Allen Weisselberg did, but they cant get him to testify, which creates a huge problem for the prosecution, even though we know he is keeping silent for Trump while sitting in rikers. Cohen did too. But there is no solid evidence that this was at the behest of Trump.
It is very very probably that Trump we behind it all. Cohen doesn't take a home equity loan out without knowing he will be paid back. And that was clearly done so they can dress it up as "legal fees" and hide it from campaign financing scrutiny. But they have not caught Trump red handed and there is enough reasonable doubt there, especially with Cohen being so vehemently anti Trump and telling the jury he has "an interest in the outcome of the case".
This case was always built on bad foundations. You cant pin your hopes on Cohen being the start witness. He is such a liar and lets not forget, is only here becaue he struck up a plea deal with the government to avoid further charges.
There will be a hung jury, therefore a mistrial, which Trump will spin as a victory and it will allow him to say Biden and the DOJ are out to get him, but the good members of the jury could see that it was a "sham trial". This was always they weakest case, but with the other 3 not happening this year, in the minds of many voters, they will assume that if he was not found guilty in this one, then they others must be "sham, rigid trials" like he keeps saying.
I cant stand Trump and want him sent down, but I believe this will only strengthen him.
As the saying goes, if you come for the king, you better not miss. They have missed and Trump will squeeze every last political benefit out of this and it will take him back to the White House.
He has been charged and is already on trial so do you mean convicted rather than charged?
And we already knew that Cohen is a sack of shit but he was Trump's sack of shit and I think he has already done Trump immeasurable damage with his earlier testimony. Nobody believes that Trump didn't do everything he is a accused of. The only real question is if all the jurors are capable of putting their political allegiance to one side and convicting. You would hope so, but that might well just be wishful thinking sadly.
And you can't decided to not prosecute cases that deserve to be prosecuted on the basis of some other things, totally unconnected to the case, maybe happening if it fails to get a conviction. Trumpites will vote for him anyway but each trial, win, lose or draw, means fewer floating voters will be tempted back. And that is what will decide the next election.
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In the end, it shouldn't matter if he managed to convince a juror and cause a hung jury, or Cohen's testimony was poor or whatever. What matters is that he was credibly accused of committing crimes, and the system actually got him into a court room to answer for those. That's the thing that's never happened before.
It's infuriating that the other three cases have succcessfully been stalled, and probably more infuriating that a huge swathe of America could care less if he committed crimes but there's still something to be said for bringing him to court, imo.
It's infuriating that the other three cases have succcessfully been stalled, and probably more infuriating that a huge swathe of America could care less if he committed crimes but there's still something to be said for bringing him to court, imo.
Agreed. Infuriating that so much time has elapsed between him leaving office and these prosecutions being brought, though. If he wins in November (which is looking alarmingly likely), all his legal troubles evaporate overnight.
Technically that's not true but is still likely, Trump could get the Federal stuff stopped but not the Georgia one
My mistake, i meant convicted.
You are right in saying, it is a bad look for Trump that he was the one that employed a now felon in Cohen to be his lawyer. But its not the first time. How many of his lawyers, staff or employees have been charged or convicted of crimes. Manafort, Weiselberg, Bannon, Cohen and Stone and Flynn pardoned.
I really dont think Cohen has done much damage to Trump in this trial. I think only Political wonks or those who want to see Trump in jail are the ones that are following the case closely. Had it been televised, it may have been a different matter. The normal rules don't apply to Trump. The man led an insurrection of the capital that led to deaths, yet many have forgotten or forgiven him for him.
While i agree, it really shouldn't matter who the person is. If there are crimes committed, they should be prosecuted. But this case was always a weak one. The prosecutors need to look at the likelihood of getting a conviction - it was 50/50 at best and they were pinning a lot of hopes on a known liar in Cohen. And we are talking about a Democrat prosecutor - he had to understand the political implication should Trump be acquitted. Though i guess he didnt calculate that the other cases would be pushed until post the election.
Im not sure why you say "The only real question is if all the jurors are capable of putting their political allegiance to one side and convicting". We are talking about a Manhattan jury here. There will be several members of that jury that are vehemently anti Trump and will find him guilty no matter what.
I disagree. If you get him into court, you have to make the charges stick, otherwise it becomes a huge benefit for Trump, who feeds of playing the victim.
There will be a hung jury. He will spin it as a win. Tell the world that Biden was out to get him, but failed (just like the Russia investigation, just like the Ukraine call etc etc), and he will go on to win the election on this back of this. This will be the the catalyst, im afraid.
There is no way they will get a sitting president in state court.
This NY trial was the chance. Alvin Bragg and his prosecutors f*cked it up.
Yes, you are of course correct - he cannot pardon himself of state-level charges. What I should have said is that any court ruling after he is elected to a second term might still carry legal weight, but from a practical standpoint, will be unenforceable. Essentially, re-election would ensure he receives no punishment for the state and federal crimes he is currently charged with. He gets away scot-free, which would be hugely frustrating, given the levels of blatant criminality he has engaged in.
That's why I said technically, I don't know about the statue of limitations though, it could still be the case that he could be charged in 4 years time if those haven't expired
Which isn't the issue. Trump haters and any jurors capable of impartiality will convict. But all it takes is one juror of the MAGA persuasion to hang the jury.
Worth noting it generally takes two to hang a jury since situations where there is only one hold out usually results in one of the two factions convincing them to join their side.
Good to know and fingers crossed.
This isn't a normal trial by any means. It's only going to take one MAGA on the jury to hang it. One actual MAGA won't be convinced no matter what, they'll hang jury by themself, do the conservative talk show circuit about how they took a stand against the corrupt Dem prosecution and become the next Rittenhouse or Joe the Plumber and bask in right wing celebrity.
We all better hope there are zero MAGA in the jury or a single trump supporter will hang it.
We needed John Cusack for this one with Rachel Weisz backing him up
Decent movie...We needed John Cusack for this one with Rachel Weisz backing him up
TBH with Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman it should be!
You say those "capable of impartiality will convict". It is the other way round. Those "capable of impartiality" would say there is enough reasonable doubt.
There isnt a smoking gun in this case. Trump is like a mob boss. He doesn't use email or text, does not specifically say what he wants done. It is always a "just get it done" type of instruction. Therefore, it leaves enough ambiguity in the minds of jurors.
There is no proof that Trump hatched this scheme. No proof he knew Cohen was going to take a home loan out to pay Stormy. Yes, he signed the checks, but he will say he thought it was just for "legal fees".
90sec is actually quite a lot of time for a phone call if you don't talk about the weather or how the dogs are doing, and from what I can tell he just updated Trump on the payment to Stormy. It wasn't as if that call was the first time they talked about it and they had to come up with a plan and figure out all the details.
I agree - both could happen in 90 seconds. But the issue is that Cohen did not describe the original intention of the call, which was to first speak to the bodyguard re the prank calls. His text pre and prior are all about the prank calls.
Had he given the full context either to the grand jury in his original testomony, or during direct in the courtroom days prior, it would have been beleivable.
But it was only during cross that this came out.
As i said before, if the defence has been able to link up the texts and the call times, then why could the prosecution have not got ahead of this?
Major feck up.
Does it matter what the original intention of the call was though? If he corroborated with Trump about the payment in passing or if they did it after flying to the other end of the world for a 5 hour face-to-face meeting surely doesn't matter.
I agree with the rest though, you'd think they would've waterproofed this 10x over but apparently not.