Would an all time Scotland XI beat an all time England XI

Melbourne Red

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Not many people would have ever thought it was possible, but time and time again, throughout the decades, Scotland have often overcome seemingly insurmountable odds and managed to be even more rubbish than England are.

All this aside though, the fact remains that for such a tiny nation they have produced an extraordinary number of top class footballers.

Conspicuously absent from every all time greatest list ever compiled on the Caf are Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness. The latter I'm led to believe was some sort of midfield superhero hybrid who combined the dynamism of Steven Gerrard, Deco's passing, Roy Keane's inspirational leadership and Vinnie Jones' thuggery. Meanwhile Kenny Dalglish is universally regarded as Liverpool's greatest ever player, which takes some doing when you remember that we're England's most successful club (18 League Titles 5 European Cups).

Throw in Jimmy Johnstone, who Celtic fans regard as their greatest player despite King Kenny's having played there thereby making him greater than the greatest player to play at England's most successful club (18/5) and you've got 3 players who could match any 3 players that any other country could lay claim to.

Beyond those three you've got names like Billy Bremner, John White, Dave Mackay, Alan Hansen, Ian St.John, not to mention United legend Dennis Law, whom unfortunately only long-time United fans like Jasonrh can claim to know much much about (he's his favourite player you know!).

All up, that's 8 of the finest players ever to grace a football pitch. Unfortunately only one of these players is a defender, and that's where this otherwise fantastic idea for a thread could fall to pieces. This is where you knowledgable caftards enter the fray, first in finding 3 more players to complete the Scotland line-up as well as players I've missed, then in naming your all time England line-up before finally leading an intelligent and well-informed discussion of the question contained in the thread title.

Failing that, let's just have another greatest ever XI thread where loads of nameless gimps post names in formation.
 
Not many people would have ever thought it was possible, but time and time again, throughout the decades, Scotland have often overcome seemingly insurmountable odds and managed to be even more rubbish than England are.

All this aside though, the fact remains that for such a tiny nation they have produced an extraordinary number of top class footballers.

Conspicuously absent from every all time greatest list ever compiled on the Caf are Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness. The latter I'm led to believe was some sort of midfield superhero hybrid who combined the dynamism of Steven Gerrard, Deco's passing, Roy Keane's inspirational leadership and Vinnie Jones' thuggery. Meanwhile Kenny Dalglish is universally regarded as Liverpool's greatest ever player, which takes some doing when you remember that we're England's most successful club (18 League Titles 5 European Cups).

Throw in Jimmy Johnstone, who Celtic fans regard as their greatest player despite King Kenny's having played there thereby making him greater than the greatest player to play at England's most successful club (18/5) and you've got 3 players who could match any 3 players any other countries have produced.

Beyond those three you've got names like Billy Bremner, John White, Dave Mackay, Alan Hansen, Ian St.John, not to mention United legend Dennis Law, whom unfortunately only long-time United fans like Jasonrh can claim to know much much about (he's his favourite player you know!).

All up, that's 8 of the finest players ever to grace a football pitch. Unfortunately only one of these players is a defender, and that's where this otherwise fantastic idea for a thread could fall to pieces. This is where you knowledgable caftards enter the fray, first in finding 3 more players to complete the Scotland line-up as well as players I've missed, then in naming your all time England line-up before finally leading an intelligent and well-informed discussion of the question contained in the thread title.

Failing that, let's just have another greatest ever XI thread where loads of nameless gimps post names in formation.

Slim Jim Baxter was wonderful midfielder, with the silkiest of skills. Pity the bottle cut his career short.
 
Yeah I was about to mention him but decided against it in case anyone decided to trot out the 'he never played in a decent league' arguement. Same thing could be levelled at Johnstone though.
 
But really the Scotland XI needs 3 more defenders and a goalkeeper.
 
Wasn't Eddie Gray from Scotland as well?

We may ultimately need to employ a 1-8-3 formation with no goalkeeper.
 
Alex McLeish was alright wasn't he, played under Sir Alex at Aberdeen, won loads of Caps.

And obviously the mighty Andy Goram in net!
 
Alex McLiesh and Willie Miller were the defensive partnership for aberdeen that won the league beat Madrid under SAF.

Jim Baxter is def worth a mention, Pele said he could have been brazillian.

It's just a shame that all the truely class scottish players are from years ago. I'd love it if a few more scottish lads could have the class of the old boys.

John Grieg is another defender for the team.
 
How do you reckon these names stack up against an all time England list?
 
Danny McGrain was widely regarded as the best right-back in the world during the mid-to-late 1970s.

Ferguson said Willie Miller was the best penalty-box defender he has ever seen.

And certainly Goram in goals.
 
Then again an all time Englan XI with the likes of Banks, Moore, Charlton, Greaves, Edwards, Hoddle, Robson, Shearer, Linekar, Gascoigne, Beckham, Barnes and so on would give 'em a game and a half.

For Scotland, how bout McCoist, and Colin Hendry? Both great players in their day.
 
Leighton was a better goalkeeper than Goram, and certainly better than a lot of people give him credit for
 
Then again an all time Englan XI with the likes of Banks, Moore, Charlton, Greaves, Edwards, Hoddle, Robson, Shearer, Linekar, Gascoigne, Beckham, Barnes and so on would give 'em a game and a half.

For Scotland, how bout McCoist, and Colin Hendry? Both great players in their day.

Are this lot actually better than Dalglish, Souness, Johnstone, Bremner, Law, Hansen, White and Mackay though?

Never saw any of them play, I actually want to know.
 
Colin Hendry? This is a best ever thread, not most ginger ever.
 
Never saw most of them play so can't say for sure. But Greaves' goal scoring record was phenomenal, Hoddle at his best was fantastic and one of the best readers of a game, his passing range was top notch.
 
You can't actually smell gingers you know. That's noodlist.
 
As opposed to Mel Red, I am not an old cnut, so can only speak about Dalglish and Souness, and the players more recent than those.

Those two are as good as almost any, if not all, players England have had over the last 20-30 years.

As for goalies, Gordon is the best Scottish goalie I've seen. Which does highlight that Scotland have not been able to display the same quality in goal as England has been able to with Shilton, Clemence and Seaman.

Hansen is another player who is as good as most England defenders over the last 2-3 decades.

But, whereas as Scotland has been able to get through a few top, top class players, they can't compete with England in terms of numbers. Which is natural, considering the size of population.
 
banks

??? ferdinand moore ???

beckham charlton ??? gazza

rooney edwards​



(Thats the best i could do from my head)
 
Best ever England XI without much consideration:
Banks
Byrne
Moore
Butcher
Sansom
Charlton
Edwards
Matthews
Robson
Lineker
Greaves

That's with no real consideration, just 11 household names and no real thought but it's a starter for ten that would take some outdoing by an all-time Scotland XI that's teetering on the brink of including Goram and Hendry.
 
banks

??? ferdinand moore ???

beckham charlton ??? gazza

rooney edwards​



(Thats the best i could do from my head)

:lol:

You've picked Rooney ahead of Gary Lineker and Jimmy Greaves which may understandable if you're young and haven't read much football history but even Michael Owen has scored something like 40 England goals in your lifetime.
 
banks

??? ferdinand moore ???

beckham charlton ??? gazza

rooney edwards​



(Thats the best i could do from my head)

I don't know where to start.

If that's you doing your best then I'd love to see your worst, for pure entertainment value.
 
My England XI in my lifetime (basically 80's, 90's and 00's):

---------Shilton--------
Neal-Rio-Butcher-Sansom
Beckham-Robbo-Gazza-Barnes
------Lineker-Shearer
 
Butcher was vastly overrated.

Nah, a winner. What he lacked in skills he made up for in attitude.

But, Engand have had quite a few good centrehalves the last couple of decades, so there might be a case for another one alongside Rio.
 
Check out this all time All Ireland XI plus subs

Jennings
Irwin
McGrath
Moran
Sheedy
Roy Keane
Whelan
Brady
Whiteside
Best
Robbie Keane

Are we now allowed to draft in players from the other home nations?

In that case, I'm putting John Charles in my Scotland side.

EDIT: Never mind
 
Nah, a winner. What he lacked in skills he made up for in attitude.

But, Engand have had quite a few good centrehalves the last couple of decades, so there might be a case for another one alongside Rio.

A winner? what did he ever win?

He was all hype. The blood flowing from the cut on his head, elevated his status.
 
My England XI in my lifetime (basically 80's, 90's and 00's):

---------Shilton--------
Neal-Rio-Butcher-Sansom
Beckham-Robbo-Gazza-Barnes
------Lineker-Shearer

Was Sansom better than Pearce?
 
Are we now allowed to draft in players from the other home nations?

In that case, I'm putting John Charles in my Scotland side.

For what it's worth, he did say ALL Ireland XI.
 
Leighton was a better goalkeeper than Goram, and certainly better than a lot of people give him credit for

Goram in the early to mid 1990s was on a different level to what Leighton ever achieved, although I agree he was under-rated in some quarters.
I'd have Goram above Seaman as well.