Our lad Ronaldo

Pogue Mahone said:
They were fairly fecking noisy on Tuesday night.
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Makes a nice change. We were playing Celtic in Europe though, of course it was noisy. Same reason it was noisy against Barca last season. And I've still heard some folk complaining about the noise levels, I guess they expected it to be even louder

If you look at just the Villareal game in its own right, bar the times fans were breaking noise barriers for Ronaldo, it wasn't a great atmosphere. That's not getting behind the team for me, that's just pandering to one mans ego
 
Jopub said:
Its got to be said, as an observer in this, that if you think Ronaldo did not engineer a move to Real for most of this year (and probably previously) you'd have to have been living in some other galaxy :wenger:
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I think we established FS was off with the fairys a long time ago

He genuinely believes Ronaldo did no such thing. It's beyond comprehension

Feedingseagulls said:
Apart from those that do you mean? :D
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Barely anyone accepts your version of events during the summer FS, because it's bullshit. People might agree with your stance about chanting Ronaldo's name, and that's fine. Do it then. I'm not going to, and I suspect a large element of the United support won't, at least not until there's no doubt he's putting everything in for the shirt. And even then I'm not so sure, I think he's broken his bridges with many. We all know he's going, and its highly likely to be next summer, so what's the point?

Some people rightly recognise that for all Ronaldo's brilliance last season, we have a shed load of talent elsewhere in our team. And of course we'd buy someone to attempt to fill Ronaldo's boots. When I mentioned Cantona earlier, someone mentioned we bought Sheringham. Hardly in the same league, but look what happened. He came to Man United and he won the lot! Look at Ruud moving to Madrid. Sometimes losing your best player isn't the disaster you think at the time. And the lad clearly wanted to leave, and he isn't going to change his mind, just face it
 
Feedingseagulls said:
So where do you obtain the definite information that Ronaldo had definitely decided to go so early in the year - to lay against his many statements that clearly place that decision post-Moscow?

Just curious. :angel:
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Without wanting to join in this insane debate about wether he wanted to go or not its been in almost every utterence hes made about his "dream" etc etc which I think he's been banging on about for maybe a year or more on various media outlets - paper TV etc etc

I cant see its arguable myself that he wanted to go to Real and did all he could without nailing it in black and white on Fergusons office door. Trying to splice every last dot and comma into a 'he did nothing wrong' image of events is a bit silly

Clearly he wanted to go and tried his level best to do it

You seem to be the only Utd supporter on this planet who absolves him of any responsiblity
 
FS, you're being obtuse or naive. I'll be generous and assume it's the latter.

Ronaldo & his agent were clearly flying kites in the media this summer. Get over it.
 
Feedingseagulls said:
I think his body language is mostly about him being unhappy at his level of performance - despite that being understandable given injury and no pre-season.

It's been pointed out that he went through periods of dissatisfaction with himself before and the body language was rather similar.
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Maybe but I don't see how that stacks up when he's beaten the full back and laid on a pass for Rooney to finish off (Blackburn) or when he's scored himself (WBA). Or when he's run off rather sharpish at the end of the game (WBA) without so much as a by your leave to the fans. Yes it could be much ado about nothing and provided, as I said, he puts his all into performances, why worry. I think its probably more to do with the fact that he has the "effrontery" to think that Real is the team he'd pefer to play with. It's a novel situation even for United supporters of some vintage.
 
Julian Denny said:
It's a novel situation even for United supporters of some vintage.
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Isnt that the truth. I cant remember ever feeling this way about one of our players before. I remember over the summer I got myself into quite a state of excitement anticipating us playing Madrid with Ronaldo in their team, and then dumping them out of Europe. That would have been sweet. And now I feel robbed of that opportunity.

I know it is potentially counter-productive to feel this way towards him (though I rarely go to OT so he wont pick up on it.) I know he has actually conducted himself reasonably well - though not brilliantly. And I accept that I might even be wrong about his attitude. But I suspect I am not and I just want to get the chance to show him he was wrong to want to leave.

Oh well. There's always next year.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
Isnt that the truth. I cant remember ever feeling this way about one of our players before. I remember over the summer I got myself into quite a state of excitement anticipating us playing Madrid with Ronaldo in their team, and then dumping them out of Europe. That would have been sweet. And now I feel robbed of that opportunity.

I know it is potentially counter-productive to feel this way towards him (though I rarely go to OT so he wont pick up on it.) I know he has actually conducted himself reasonably well - though not brilliantly. And I accept that I might even be wrong about his attitude. But I suspect I am not and I just want to get the chance to show him he was wrong to want to leave.

Oh well. There's always next year.
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seek help
 
Simon Adebesi said:
Isnt that the truth. I cant remember ever feeling this way about one of our players before. I remember over the summer I got myself into quite a state of excitement anticipating us playing Madrid with Ronaldo in their team, and then dumping them out of Europe. That would have been sweet. And now I feel robbed of that opportunity.

I know it is potentially counter-productive to feel this way towards him (though I rarely go to OT so he wont pick up on it.) I know he has actually conducted himself reasonably well - though not brilliantly. And I accept that I might even be wrong about his attitude. But I suspect I am not and I just want to get the chance to show him he was wrong to want to leave.

Oh well. There's always next year.
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Concur completely. It's an odd situation - quite unprecedented and we just have to accept it. Hopefully his attitude, if you can call it that, is acceptable to his team mates first and foremost and that they are comfortable with it. If we retain the ECL and he then buggers off, I don't think many will be complaining.
 


Today's training photos. Poor lad is clearly having a shite time.

I'm not for one second trying to back up the claims by FS that Ronaldo didn't want to leave in the summer, cause he did. IMHO that's beyond any reasonable doubt.

But this whole "not smiling", "not clapping fans", "body language" shite has been cooked up by the English media and I'm a bit surprised to see very sensible posters getting caught up in it all.

We've had plenty of players in the past playing with mardy expressions on their faces, under-celebrating goals, or storming off the pitch when they're subbed, especially when they're struggling for form. Not least the current golden boy, Wayne Rooney. Nobody ever doubted their commitment to the cause or the effort they put in on the pitch.

Obviously, Ronaldo probably still wants to join Madrid, either this summer or in another few years time. But he's always been very happy at United, he is clearly giving it 110% on the pitch and I have absolutely no doubt he'll shortly be tearing our opposition a new arsehole, sooner rather than later.

We've had very few quotes from him all summer but in the one lengthy interview about the saga, he made it very clear how proud he is to play for the club, how highly he rates SAF and how much he is looking forward to driving the team to new heights this season. Is it too much to ask to take this at face value? It's quite possible for every word of that interview to be heartfelt and true, despite him angling for a move last summer.

Whether or not any of us want to sing his name is a personal question. But all this shit about him not making an effort or not wanting to play for us this season is ridiculous.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm a bit surprised to see very sensible posters getting caught up in it all.
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Id like to think you'd include me in this. The truth is it is one of those instances where you fit the circumstances to your belief, not the other way around. To clarify, I have not been able to get on board with Ronaldo this season - and I thought I would. So I have been looking for ways to justify it - and his (seeming) lack of enthusiasm is one excuse for me.

At the moment it is getting worse, not better. I cant be bothered to love him and then go through the same shit again next summer. He can play his heart out for the trophies and the glory, and those things align our interests. For the rest of it he can feck right off.

If he were to come out and say something heartfelt that made me believe he wasnt just waiting to leave it might change. Im not holding my breath.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


Today's training photos. Poor lad is clearly having a shite time.

I'm not for one second trying to back up the claims by FS that Ronaldo didn't want to leave in the summer, cause he did. IMHO that's beyond any reasonable doubt.

But this whole "not smiling", "not clapping fans", "body language" shite has been cooked up by the English media and I'm a bit surprised to see very sensible posters getting caught up in it all.

We've had plenty of players in the past playing with mardy expressions on their faces, under-celebrating goals, or storming off the pitch when they're subbed, especially when they're struggling for form. Not least the current golden boy, Wayne Rooney. Nobody ever doubted their commitment to the cause or the effort they put in on the pitch.

Obviously, Ronaldo probably still wants to join Madrid, either this summer or in another few years time. But he's always been very happy at United, he is clearly giving it 110% on the pitch and I have absolutely no doubt he'll shortly be tearing our opposition a new arsehole, sooner rather than later.

We've had very few quotes from him all summer but in the one lengthy interview about the saga, he made it very clear how proud he is to play for the club, how highly he rates SAF and how much he is looking forward to driving the team to new heights this season. Is it too much to ask to take this at face value? It's quite possible for every word of that interview to be heartfelt and true, despite him angling for a move last summer.

Whether or not any of us want to sing his name is a personal question. But all this shit about him not making an effort or not wanting to play for us this season is ridiculous.
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That's all well and good but I wait to see him smiling like that during a game when all eyes are on him (TV and 75 000 fans) The bottom line is he'd rather be at the Bernabau than OT. Hopefully that won't affect his performances for us too much as we endeavour to repeat last season's success. Almost certainly he's a goner come next summer. Or would you like to bet against that ?
 
Simon Adebesi said:
Id like to think you'd include me in this. The truth is it is one of those instances where you fit the circumstances to your belief, not the other way around. To clarify, I have not been able to get on board with Ronaldo this season - and I thought I would. So I have been looking for ways to justify it - and his (seeming) lack of enthusiasm is one excuse for me.

At the moment it is getting worse, not better. I cant be bothered to love him and then go through the same shit again next summer. He can play his heart out for the trophies and the glory, and those things align our interests. For the rest of it he can feck right off.

If he were to come out and say something heartfelt that made me believe he wasnt just waiting to leave it might change. Im not holding my breath.
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I do.

And I feel the same way as you do, based on your last post. In fact, i started a thread a while back, based on a blogger who summed up my feelings on Ronaldo. His play-acting irritates me more than it ever did before, I find it harder than ever to defend him to rival fans and I've gone past the point of caring if/when he does leave.

But these are just my personal feelings. Putting these to one side, I think Ronaldo is fantastic player, who is working hard for the team, who is a huge asset for the club and - once he hits some form - will be massively important to our success this season. If/when this starts to happen, my feelings might well change. But then i've always been a shallow cnut ;)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I do.

And I feel the same way as you do, based on your last post. In fact, i started a thread a while back, based on a blogger who summed up my feelings on Ronaldo. His play-acting irritates me more than it ever did before, I find it harder than ever to defend him to rival fans and I've gone past the point of caring if/when he does leave.

But these are just my personal feelings. Putting these to one side, I think Ronaldo is fantastic player, who is working hard for the team, who is a huge asset for the club and - once he hits some form - will be massively important to our success this season. If/when this starts to happen, my feelings might well change. But then i've always been a shallow cnut ;)
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Exactly right. I dont think I have ever questioned his commitment to his own glory or - by extention - the team's. He is a professional. If I have made any such assertions then I was drunk and talking bollocks. That happens.

A while ago I made a fairly obvious analogy (for which I was accused of plagerism) about a jilted husband resenting his wife for not loving him anymore. I stick to that as appropriate for how I feel. It is not that I actually hate her for not loving me anymore - i know she cant help it. And I know she is still a fantastic mother to my children. I just wish she would suck my balls again like she always used to.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
Wont you help me?
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Dont think i can

Pogue Mahone said:


Today's training photos. Poor lad is clearly having a shite time.....


Whether or not any of us want to sing his name is a personal question. But all this shit about him not making an effort or not wanting to play for us this season is ridiculous.
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Poggy it doesnt surprise me that the point has escaped you. The very fact he's so expressive at training should only make you ask MORE why on earth he'd want to perpetuate this thing when the worlds eyes ARE on him.

However anyone who says he isnt trying is mentally retarded.
 
Julian Denny said:
That's all well and good but I wait to see him smiling like that during a game when all eyes are on him (TV and 75 000 fans) The bottom line is he'd rather be at the Bernabau than OT. Hopefully that won't affect his performances for us too much as we endeavour to repeat last season's success. Almost certainly he's a goner come next summer. Or would you like to bet against that ?
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If you were 100% convinced of that yourself, you wouldn't have said "almost" certainly, would you?
 
GusHiddink said:
Dont think i can



Poggy it doesnt surprise me that the point has escaped you. The very fact he's so expressive at training should only make you ask MORE why on earth he'd want to perpetuate this thing when the worlds eyes ARE on him.

However anyone who says he isnt trying is mentally retarded.
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feck off Gus, there's a good chap :D
 
GusHiddink said:
Poggy it doesnt surprise me that the point has escaped you. The very fact he's so expressive at training should only make you ask MORE why on earth he'd want to perpetuate this thing when the worlds eyes ARE on him.

However anyone who says he isnt trying is mentally retarded.
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That seems fair enough to me. I'll be honest, I'm not into this making a big meal out of every little smile and frown business. But there's a very real possibility we have a player at the club who doesn't want to be here, and it'll affect his game. He is only human after all

And if that's the case, what use is he too us?

Personally I just think he's missed pre season, and like every player who does that, it takes a long time, if not until the next season, to regain their form again. And as per usual, his playing to the crowd that accompanies it draws attention and question marks
 
Brad said:
That seems fair enough to me. I'll be honest, I'm not into this making a big meal out of every little smile and frown business. But there's a very real possibility we have a player at the club who doesn't want to be here, and it'll affect his game. He is only human after all

And if that's the case, what use is he too us?

Personally I just think he's missed pre season, and like every player who does that, it takes a long time, if not until the next season, to regain their form again. And as per usual, his playing to the crowd that accompanies it draws attention and question marks
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Brad mate, im not sure ive been clear enough here... i think his form is better than i expected given his pre season... he's getting there. No question. And if there is one player mentally strong enough to play at his best while not 100% happy/mock sulking its ronaldo.

Im just interested to see if indeed i have made too much of his body language etc. Which i most likely have. And i hope so.
 
GusHiddink said:
Brad mate, im not sure ive been clear enough here... i think his form is better than i expected given his pre season... he's getting there. No question. And if there is one player mentally strong enough to play at his best while not 100% happy/mock sulking its ronaldo.

Im just interested to see if indeed i have made too much of his body language etc. Which i most likely have. And i hope so.
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I don't think he's playing too badly either. I think I've included him in my MotM list a couple of times on here. His form isn't yet what it was last season though, and there's a good reason for it

Question is whether that masks over that his state of mind about where he wants to be is also having an affect, and we don't know. Some of his behaviour is certainly raising questions with some though
 
GusHiddink said:
Poggy it doesnt surprise me that the point has escaped you. The very fact he's so expressive at training should only make you ask MORE why on earth he'd want to perpetuate this thing when the worlds eyes ARE on him.

However anyone who says he isnt trying is mentally retarded.
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I'd go with the mundane answer of he is happy in training - surrounded by his mates, under no pressure, if the ball doesn't do what he wants it to - he can do it again, if his ankle hurts he can ease off for a while, he can probably tell that it's getting better.

Matches on the other hand - things aren't quite working yet and one of the things that isn't working is him and he fans. There's no question that opposition fans remain as hostile as ever and to say the feelings of United fans are mixed would be an understatement (as you can tell from this thread). He's frustrated wih his own play and he's currently going with keeping his head down and avoiding looking at the crowd. When he's happy enough with how he's playing he might risk looking up again.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If you were 100% convinced of that yourself, you wouldn't have said "almost" certainly, would you?
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Practically nothing is certain in this world - hence the "almost" bit However, I would not put any money on him staying after the end of this season. In fact a little flutter on him leaving in Jan might be a bit of fun !
 
jojojo said:
I'd go with the mundane answer of he is happy in training - surrounded by his mates, under no pressure, if the ball doesn't do what he wants it to - he can do it again, if his ankle hurts he can ease off for a while, he can probably tell that it's getting better.

Matches on the other hand - things aren't quite working yet and one of the things that isn't working is him and he fans. There's no question that opposition fans remain as hostile as ever and to say the feelings of United fans are mixed would be an understatement (as you can tell from this thread). He's frustrated wih his own play and he's currently going with keeping his head down and avoiding looking at the crowd. When he's happy enough with how he's playing he might risk looking up again.
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Hmmm, perhaps... but the reaction from the fans wasnt exactly subdued when he came off the bench the 1st time. Massive cheer. ;)

The feelings of distrust are coming from ronnie's actions are what will turn any fans against him. :(

You've got to be a bit naive to believe he is so upset with his own game he forgot to clap the fans at this delicate juncture of the relationship. He knows what he's doing, i think. :wenger:

Ronnie..keeping his head down?? :eek:
 
Brad said:
That's just horse crap. Did everyone else who didn't get the same adulation from the stands last season lose their motivation because of it? I just don't understand this notion that supporters are somehow obligated to give a particular player special treatment like that. He deserved it last season, he doesn't this, and he only has himself to blame. If he's so small that it actually affects his performance - remember, no-ones making things uncomfortable or unwelcome for him, simply choosing not to chant his name - then the lads buggered when he goes to Madrid, because they don't have the time for their players we do
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I think fans should do what it takes to help their team play better. And while Ronaldo plays for us, he deserves that support.

Whatever notions or dreams he has of life in Madrid, that's up to him. If it goes tits up for him over there, that's not our problem any more. But like I said, till such time, we should get behind all our players in every way possible.
 
Julian Denny said:
You are right but, rather perversely, have you thought that perhaps this is what Ronaldo wants ? It might make his exit easier if the fans turn against him.

It may just be the cynic in me but there's soimething quite strange going on. I hope I'm wrong but there is evidence from his body language that the passion for playing for United has gone. He wants out and at the earliest time. At least he wants there to be no doubt that this is his last season at United before he joins his "beloved" Real. (Wouldn't it be ironic if Real then go into a barren few years both domestically and in Europe ?)

That's not to say he won't give 100% and that he won't continue to be a match winner for us. Whatever his agenda we must support him on the field provided he continues to give of his best. So far there's no indication that he won't.
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He got himself back from injury early but working very hard. That's not a sign of someone who's not motivated.

I think we risk reading too much into his every word and expression. He's probably frustrated by his form, and possibly some realisation that fans are not getting behind him the way they used to.
 
Brad said:
Barely anyone accepts your version of events during the summer FS, because it's bullshit. People might agree with your stance about chanting Ronaldo's name, and that's fine. Do it then. I'm not going to, and I suspect a large element of the United support won't, at least not until there's no doubt he's putting everything in for the shirt. And even then I'm not so sure, I think he's broken his bridges with many. We all know he's going, and its highly likely to be next summer, so what's the point?
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I repeat...

The more crucial element that has also been present is whether Ronaldo did anything that was actually wrong. Something you've been unable to show.

We know you disliked what he did - that might be enough to make you behave like a tosser towards him - don't dress it up as something it's not though.
 
Jopub said:
Without wanting to join in this insane debate about wether he wanted to go or not its been in almost every utterence hes made about his "dream" etc etc which I think he's been banging on about for maybe a year or more on various media outlets - paper TV etc etc

I cant see its arguable myself that he wanted to go to Real and did all he could without nailing it in black and white on Fergusons office door. Trying to splice every last dot and comma into a 'he did nothing wrong' image of events is a bit silly

Clearly he wanted to go and tried his level best to do it

You seem to be the only Utd supporter on this planet who absolves him of any responsiblity
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Ronaldo has been talking about a dream of playing in Spain for many years - I simply want to know when you felt this changed to a definite desire to leave this year - and how you reached this conclusion.

He admitted he wanted to go to Real at some point this summer - and I acknowledge that - but he's explicitly stated that the decision to leave this year was made post-Moscow - this matches many other statements in the earlier part of the summer.

In what sense is seeing another club as a viable alternative wrong? In what sense is eventually deciding and saying he'd like to move he if Utd were happy for him to go wrong?

I don't absolve him of responsibility - I just think this is part of being a professional footballer generally.

I can understand that this annoyed many fans - doesn't mean it's 'wrong' though does it?
 
nickm said:
FS, you're being obtuse or naive. I'll be generous and assume it's the latter.

Ronaldo & his agent were clearly flying kites in the media this summer. Get over it.
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It's clear in the early part of the summer he was keeping options open.

He also stated he was intending to stay - but that news related to that was pending.

Something he seemed to expect to occur did not - so his alternative of leaving (if we were happy) was then the decision. It was at that point and not before.

I would think it entirely probable that, like most agents, Ronaldo's was earlier looking at what alternatives would be available when representing his client's interests when talking to his current club. Entirely normal practice I'd reckon.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm not for one second trying to back up the claims by FS that Ronaldo didn't want to leave in the summer, cause he did. IMHO that's beyond any reasonable doubt.
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F*cks Sake!

Where oh where did I make any such claim Pogue? You've been reading too much into Brad's posts.

I've merely stated that he made that decision later than Brad thinks - in line with what Ronaldo himself explicitly claims.

I also don't think that wanting to leave is 'wrong' - nor that he went about it in any particularly reprehensible way.
 
Feedingseagulls said:
Ronaldo has been talking about a dream of playing in Spain for many years - I simply want to know when you felt this changed to a definite desire to leave this year - and how you reached this conclusion.

He admitted he wanted to go to Real at some point this summer - and I acknowledge that - but he's explicitly stated that the decision to leave this year was made post-Moscow - this matches many other statements in the earlier part of the summer.
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It's pointless in discussing this issue a you'll only argue endlessly about it
He's wanted to go for the last 18 months or so and in media statements veiled or otherwise thats been obvious - well to me anyway


Feedingseagulls said:
In what sense is seeing another club as a viable alternative wrong? In what sense is eventually deciding and saying he'd like to move he if Utd were happy for him to go wrong?

I don't absolve him of responsibility - I just think this is part of being a professional footballer generally.

I can understand that this annoyed many fans - doesn't mean it's 'wrong' though does it?
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Entirely different point - of course any person should investigate an improvement in their employment situation

Granted it is part of being a top player in the football world but then fans tend to have an extreme view of the meaning of loyalty and its a fickle business we're in when it comes to players we not only adore but also happen to be one of the most effective in the world in winning the club trophies so they will be huge amounts of vitriol should that player start to look elsewhere

Also the actual part a player makes in attempting a move of this nature tends to cloud the judgement of fans

Maybe if these superegos simply came out with exactly what they wanted and stopped all the MI5 nonsense that goes with the territory then they'd get a more respecful reaction from fans

Utd have a slightly different scenario though - they have the 'Beckham' effect the one whereby one of their heroes was world wide castigated for offences against England and came back to receive fantastic support from the manager and fans (even though in my opinion Ronaldos case it hardly warranted it) Nevertheless he did get that support and of course his engineering a move away surrepticiously to a world rival will not go down well.

How he can stand around now seemingly sulking about it now I don't know.

On a seperate issue, his current form, he's clearly not yet fit, obviously, which is making him lose the first yard. That will of course change in the next few weeks and then you can judge wether his commitment is 100% or not.

I suspect, given his squashed transfer dreams, his heart is not fully in it but he has plenty in surplus ability and fitness to still give more than enough to be effective for Utd
 
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