Scores die in Israeli air strikes

You are somewhat delusional by thinking Hamas will understand better if hundreds of their people are killed.
So you believe that is the purpose of this attack? Only a fool would believe that by killing a persons family and friends would you be able to get some respect from them.

They would not one day stop and say they can't fight any more, when you've lost so much that you loved and seen so much suffering, you would only feel hatred and naturally want some 'justice' put into it, which leads to more and more fighting. In a normal sense, when a person is killed on the streets in Britain, their parents would want some justice brought by capturing the killer.

So I say again, how can the increased violence and killing of 500 or something now help Israel stop the rockets they suffer?

Try to think beyond the child-killing propaganda for a second. IF Hamas suffers a blow to its military capacities and its leadership it might seek a ceasefire in order to keep its grip on the Gazans. After all, it's true that the people are to blame for bringing up Hamas rule, but they could become disillusioned with what Hamas has delivered so far. I'm not saying this will happen anytime soon, but it's the only possible way out of this mess.
 
Any better ideas?

Thanks for asking.

I had an idea a week ago in the newbies but it must have been stupid as I forgot it. Anyhow, atleast now we can discuss some ideas and if an idea is good, it can easily be spread around, atleast, for what it's worth, through the means of the internet.

A small idea of mine was to get the general opinion to be for Israel to take a Ghandi type stance, seeing if that suddenly became the general opinion of millions on how to resolve the conflict maybe they'd consider listening. I know what you said but I suggest with things like if Palestine did fire rockets, they'd get so and so punishments. That way Palestine would have itself to blame if they launched rockets and Israel would suffer less rockets, hopefully things better and it becomes none. I know you said you don't want to suffer like that, but you'd definitely bring the backing of so many nations around the world.

Again, ideas, feel free to send your own.
 
Try to think beyond the child-killing propaganda for a second. IF Hamas suffers a blow to its military capacities and its leadership it might seek a ceasefire in order to keep its grip on the Gazans. After all, it's true that the people are to blame for bringing up Hamas rule, but they could become disillusioned with what Hamas has delivered so far. I'm not saying this will happen anytime soon, but it's the only possible way out of this mess.

You yourself are ignoring what I have said. Read, carefully.
It is stupid to think that the citizens of Gaza are immune to the feelings everyone else will suffer should they, and I'm sure many have, lose some of their loved ones.

And something I've stayed away from arguing since I cannot be sure on, how do you know that Hamas are not just being made the scapegoats for these attacks? Only the Palestinians that knew them, as remember, Hamas members are civillians and not just crazed Islamic terrorists, only they know who they are. It is only one step from blaming Hamas to blaming the citizens.
 
Thanks for asking.

I had an idea a week ago in the newbies but it must have been stupid as I forgot it. Anyhow, atleast now we can discuss some ideas and if an idea is good, it can easily be spread around, atleast, for what it's worth, through the means of the internet.

A small idea of mine was to get the general opinion to be for Israel to take a Ghandi type stance, seeing if that suddenly became the general opinion of millions on how to resolve the conflict maybe they'd consider listening. I know what you said but I suggest with things like if Palestine did fire rockets, they'd get so and so punishments. That way Palestine would have itself to blame if they launched rockets and Israel would suffer less rockets, hopefully things better and it becomes none. I know you said you don't want to suffer like that, but you'd definitely bring the backing of so many nations around the world.

Again, ideas, feel free to send your own.

I have an idea based on how Israel and Fatah in the West Bank seem to be quite chummy: give Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy. Once Israel and Gaza are sufficiently distracted hopefully the new enemy will be easier to agree peace with.
 
Frankly, I don't have any fresh ideas. I think the one Israel's got at the moment with the Gaza operation is decent, because we have tried to be patient - without being completely silly - for a long time. Hamas launched rockets, Israel kept the borders closed. Didn't lead us anywhere.
 
I have an idea based on how Israel and Fatah in the West Bank seem to be quite chummy: give Israelis and Palestinians a common enemy. Once Israel and Gaza are sufficiently distracted hopefully the new enemy will be easier to agree peace with.

Wtf, who or what in their right mind would want to suffer what's being given now. It is something different and something probably no one would think off, but it doesn't really get rid of the violence, just places it elsewhere.
 
Thanks for asking.

I had an idea a week ago in the newbies but it must have been stupid as I forgot it. Anyhow, atleast now we can discuss some ideas and if an idea is good, it can easily be spread around, atleast, for what it's worth, through the means of the internet.

A small idea of mine was to get the general opinion to be for Israel to take a Ghandi type stance, seeing if that suddenly became the general opinion of millions on how to resolve the conflict maybe they'd consider listening. I know what you said but I suggest with things like if Palestine did fire rockets, they'd get so and so punishments. That way Palestine would have itself to blame if they launched rockets and Israel would suffer less rockets, hopefully things better and it becomes none. I know you said you don't want to suffer like that, but you'd definitely bring the backing of so many nations around the world.

Again, ideas, feel free to send your own.

This is exactly what we have done the last few months, hence the backing (if silent) of many (including Arab) countries to the current operation.
 
You yourself are ignoring what I have said. Read, carefully.
It is stupid to think that the citizens of Gaza are immune to the feelings everyone else will suffer should they, and I'm sure many have, lose some of their loved ones.

And something I've stayed away from arguing since I cannot be sure on, how do you know that Hamas are not just being made the scapegoats for these attacks? Only the Palestinians that knew them, as remember, Hamas members are civillians and not just crazed Islamic terrorists, only they know who they are. It is only one step from blaming Hamas to blaming the citizens.

But Israelis also have loved ones, and they suffer when their loved ones have to live under constant rocket threat.

I have made the step you are talking about, and actually blamed the Palestinian people for bringing hamas to power. Israeli administrations have made countless mistakes in the past, and the public made them pay the following general elections. Hopefully, the Palestinians can do the same if they ever have another round of free elections.
 
Frankly, I don't have any fresh ideas. I think the one Israel's got at the moment with the Gaza operation is decent, because we have tried to be patient - without being completely silly - for a long time. Hamas launched rockets, Israel kept the borders closed. Didn't lead us anywhere.

See, I'm talking of ideas that are as close to being equal as can be and fair. Ideas that minimise suffering as much as possible

What is happening now is certainly not fair. And I did not want to say this but Israel have in no way done nothing whilst Hamas launched rockets. You would be woefully ignorant to believe that over the truth. I'm sure you like the current idea is great since the Israelis suffer a lot less, but switch positions and you would not want it to be like that.

Anyhow, what of my idea? Just a thought that though.
 
Frankly, I don't have any fresh ideas. I think the one Israel's got at the moment with the Gaza operation is decent, because we have tried to be patient - without being completely silly - for a long time.

There is a problem with that line of thought though Amir, which is that patience and waiting and truces mean very different things for Israel and for Gaza. Although they'd prefer more security, most Israelis will be happy enough with indefinite periods of reasonable calm. For Palestinians in Gaza, that means indefinite periods of living in a blockaded shithole on the breadline.

For Palestinians in the West Bank it's not as bad, as they're doing far better economically. But it still means sitting watching the settlements slowly swelling. 70 000 settlers have now become 150 000. Sure, the new settlements are bargaining chips that will one day have to be cashed. But the point is that truces mean the status quo and the status quo means quiet improvement in the Israeli position on the ground.

Basically, Hamas had to do something, because their mandate rests on two platforms - social welfare and fighting Israel. Obviously it would have been better if that something had been coming to the table, even with a lame duck Israeli president. Provoking a war while Bush was still in power was a strange call, unless they've got something up their sleeves in a ground war like Hezbollah did, which we'll soon find out.
 
This is exactly what we have done the last few months, hence the backing (if silent) of many (including Arab) countries to the current operation.

If you go back and search for a few links on the last page, you'll know that that is not true, you did not ensure total non violence. And I doubt many countries would back the killings of hundreds.

To your other post, you have no way and neither have I of knowing how Hamas really are, unlike in Israel where the Israelis can tell us. Nothing is allowed into Gaza.

And let me make it clear, what's happened in the past has gone. We cannot use it as a source of justification for what is happening now. While we are in what I see as pointless discussions, there are more than a million humans, yes humans, not some alien species that are stuck in a dire situation. No matter who they are, terrorist or the president, I feel sick that people would be happy to accept killings and not look for a way to avoid it.
 
What is happening now is certainly not fair. And I did not want to say this but Israel have in no way done nothing whilst Hamas launched rockets. You would be woefully ignorant to believe that over the truth. I'm sure you like the current idea is great since the Israelis suffer a lot less, but switch positions and you would not want it to be like that.

I'm clearly not stating we've done nothing - keeping the borders closed, for example, which is also a response to Plechazunga here - but I do think just about any other country in the world would have responded they we have been doing for the past week, eight years ago. No one has yet to come up with a suitable reaction to a provocative terrorist group other than attacking them, whether they are on their own, or actually control a country or an entity, Afghanistan or Gaza, for that matter.

Plechazunga, you're bringing us back a discussion we've already had here, about how little Hamas cares for the lives of the 1.5 million people he's in charge of. I think it was clear from the moment the ceasefire began there was no trust between the sides, and one had to be built through time before we'd reopen the borders. But obviously that doesn't suit Hamas' true being, as a terrorist group. They surely knew full well launching rockets was not going to help anyone in Gaza, but they've done so anyway. Social welfare is not the target of someone who smuggles missiles instead of food.
 
Social welfare is not the target of someone who smuggles missiles instead of food.

Why should the Palestinians be left in a position where you would have to smuggle food and medical supplies? Surely any neighbouring country would never allow it's people to be put in such a position.
 
If you go back and search for a few links on the last page, you'll know that that is not true, you did not ensure total non violence. And I doubt many countries would back the killings of hundreds.

To your other post, you have no way and neither have I of knowing how Hamas really are, unlike in Israel where the Israelis can tell us. Nothing is allowed into Gaza.

And let me make it clear, what's happened in the past has gone. We cannot use it as a source of justification for what is happening now. While we are in what I see as pointless discussions, there are more than a million humans, yes humans, not some alien species that are stuck in a dire situation. No matter who they are, terrorist or the president, I feel sick that people would be happy to accept killings and not look for a way to avoid it.

The Gazans used to work in Israel, and Israelis used to shop in Gaza for years. There's no need for patronising with the likes of "they are human beings".

I'm sure you feel sick with civilian deaths, and trust me most Israelis feel the same. Only difference is that you're not being fired at, which allows you to come up with the type of "sit and wait" gestures mentioned above.
 
Farid Ghadry, President of the Reform Party of Syria, has written:

We Arabs must be the ones to stop Hamas and Hizbullah, rather than support their demonic and twisted logic of resisting development, enlightenment, and progress of the region. Even when development and enlightenment stare them in the face, their instinct is to destroy them pretending to safeguard their honor, the mechanics of which supersede all else including a happy life of fulfillment and accomplishments.

So while we abhor violence of all kind, Israel's campaign against Hamas must continue to the bitter end not only for the sake of peace but also to help Arabs realize they have a choice: Destroy like Gaza or develop like Dubai. Will this happen soon? Maybe not, but if a wake-up call and a nudge, once in a while, to pierce through the fog of deceit perpetrated by Syria and Iran is what it takes to see the light, then we stand by the West and Israel in the only hope that an Arab Renaissance in the Levant may actually have a chance of resurrection.
 
Try to think beyond the child-killing propaganda for a second. IF Hamas suffers a blow to its military capacities and its leadership it might seek a ceasefire in order to keep its grip on the Gazans. After all, it's true that the people are to blame for bringing up Hamas rule, but they could become disillusioned with what Hamas has delivered so far. I'm not saying this will happen anytime soon, but it's the only possible way out of this mess.

yes lets suspend normal human feelings:mad:
 
I'm sure you feel sick with civilian deaths, and trust me most Israelis feel the same. Only difference is that you're not being fired at, which allows you to come up with the type of "sit and wait" gestures mentioned above.
"Most Israelis" are not being fired at. 20 civilians have been killed in 8 years.
This is a tragedy and must be stopped but I doubt that the 1,700 Palestinian deaths in the last 3 years will have aided that objective. Sitting and waiting is absolutely not an option but I cannot see how another attempt at subjugation by military means will work over a people who now have even less to lose.
 
yes lets suspend normal human feelings:mad:

If normal human feelings sum up to repeatedly portraying Israel as a blood-thirsty monster then yes...lets cut it out.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1024172.html

A story like this wouldn't come out of a country interested in killing Palestinian kids. BTW, the Ashkelon hospital where this story took place has been under constant rocket fire for years now.
 
"Most Israelis" are not being fired at. 20 civilians have been killed in 8 years.
This is a tragedy and must be stopped but I doubt that the 1,700 Palestinian deaths in the last 3 years will have aided that objective. Sitting and waiting is absolutely not an option but I cannot see how another attempt at subjugation by military means will work over a people who now have even less to lose.

The body count is irrelevant here. If your kid lost a limb to one of those primitive rockets you'd want your government to act. 500,000 Israelis live within Hamas rocket range. I'm not interested in finishing the job without making sure Hamas isn't going to put its hands on longer range missiles.
 
I really don't understand the need to post horrific pics on this board, and find it odd that a mod takes place in the exchange. It's disrespectful to the victims and their families, and adds little to the debate.
 
I really don't understand the need to post horrific pics on this board, and find it odd that a mod takes place in the exchange. It's disrespectful to the victims and their families, and adds little to the debate.

It was already posted in another thread.

I actually think graphic images bring about the realities of what's happening more than words ever could. I'm sure the dead and injured would love the world to see what they have been subjected to.

There is also a warning for those not wishing to view the horrific details.
 
I really don't understand the need to post horrific pics on this board, and find it odd that a mod takes place in the exchange. It's disrespectful to the victims and their families, and adds little to the debate.


At least in the UK, TV news coverage presents a heavily sanitised version of death and destruction. Some people perhaps need a reality check to understand the awfulness of war and terrorism.
 
It was already posted in another thread.

I actually think graphic images bring about the realities of what's happening more than words ever could. I'm sure the dead and injured would love the world to see what they have been subjected to.

There is also a warning for those not wishing to view the horrific details.

That's hypocrytical. I am yet to see Fearless post images of maimed Palestinans or you posting images of torn limbs outside blown-up Israeli buses. These are nothing more than cheap attempts to score points on an internet forum.
 
That's hypocrytical. I am yet to see Fearless post images of maimed Palestinans or you posting images of torn limbs outside blown-up Israeli buses. These are nothing more than cheap attempts to score points on an internet forum.

I don't condone terrorist activities, or Hamas rockets. They are no less evil.

It's just a realistic effort to open eyes of the atrocities going on behind closed doors.
 
That's hypocrytical. I am yet to see Fearless post images of maimed Palestinans or you posting images of torn limbs outside blown-up Israeli buses. These are nothing more than cheap attempts to score points on an internet forum.

Logic failed a bit there but whatever.

Point is these things are happening and whether you accept them or not it is not an attempt to show anyone as a "blood-thirsty monster" but just the truth.

And I grow sick and tired of all this talk from Israeli supporters wanting the terrorists, Hamas, to disarm and to stop them firing rockets. Whether people want to believe it or not, both sides are the terrorists, Israel more so just due to the sheer number they killed previously but are happy to do so again and again.

Israel may have being attacked by rockets in their defense, but it is outweighed by all the killings, attacks, blockades, supply limitations. I know many will not like to hear it, but Israel are to blame. And I'm sure the 50,000 or so people that protested in London yesterday thought so as well, and I'm sure from what I saw that atleast a third of these protesters were not Muslim(judging on ethnicity, English, Americans etc but I accept some are Muslims).

How people can accept what's happening, regardless of where they're and whom they're, I'll never know.
 
The Gazans used to work in Israel, and Israelis used to shop in Gaza for years. There's no need for patronising with the likes of "they are human beings".

So you moan about having rockets come to you from the terrorists, so you send worse back. That makes Israel as bad as them in my eyes.

If you know how it feels to suffer like that, as humans would you want that to spread to others, especially those with little food, water and medical supplies?
 
Another article

I turned on the news yesterday in an attempt to shrug off my ever growing despondency. This was my fourth time in the last hour. I’m not sure what I was expecting; Gazans were still being slaughtered by bombs dropped upon them from thousands of feet above by pilots not much older than myself. They’re trapped on all sides and the rest of the world does nothing to stop it. It was the same as the last three times...well almost. The death toll had risen. Desperate to believe in a prevailing Justice within society, I tried to take heart from the fact that at least these atrocities were still in the forefront of the news...for now anyway.

They were all covering the major story: CNN showed clips of the white trail of smoke following yet another bomb dropped by the IAF. BBC News reported that none of the Aid which Israel apparently let through into Gaza has actually reached a single hospital in Gaza. Fox News reporters discussed how the most horrifying detail about the thousands of shoes dumped onto a Miami Expressway, was that some of them were tied together (US officials were completely taken by surprise; they are not trained to deal with such adversity).

I switched to Al Jazeera English and heard the familiar voice of Azim Tamimi state that contrary to what has been reported in almost every news channel, and what has consequently become the consensus, Hamas did not break the ceasefire – Israel did. I had been so brainwashed, that for a second even I dismissed his claim as false. Surely I would have heard this from other sources? It was only when a close childhood friend of mine decided to get back in contact by pointing out the attacks of November 5, 2008 that I decided to read up on it.

We are told that the 6 month ceasefire between Hamas and Israel was broken by Hamas firing rockets into Gaza which killed an unfortunate Israeli. However on November 5, 2008 (4 months into the ceasefire), Israeli soldiers entered Gaza and killed 6 of Hamas’ men. 4 of the Israeli soldiers who illegally crossed into Gaza were also injured. When Hamas retaliated with their pathetic rockets, no one was injured. So Israel responded with an Air Strike which left 5 more men dead (See link 1 below for the full article published in the Guardian).

So why was the ceasefire not broken then? Why has the media (and the US, but we all know the answer to that one) decided that Hamas was to blame for this atrocity? It was because no Israeli was killed in November. The pattern is the same as it has been for decades. It is acceptable for Israel to blockade and starve 1.5 million people to the point where according to the UN report, more than half are malnourished. It’s acceptable for Israeli soldiers to shoot children at point blank range because they were throwing rocks at a jeep (see article 2). 164 nations vote against Israel every year in the UN. 4 vote in favour (Israel, the US, Marshall Islands (with a population of a mere 60 000) and another such obscure Island. In the International Court of Justice, out of the 15 Judges, 14 voted completely against Israel. The remaining was unsurprisingly from the US (and even he voted against Israel on one of the three issues).

However, the minute an Israeli is killed or even kidnapped (as was the case in Lebanon 2 years ago when Hezbollah took action), it becomes a justification for the indiscriminate killing of hundreds if not thousands of people (in Lebanon the death toll was higher). All in the name of the security of the Israeli Citizens. We get the same rhetoric every time, the same lies about letting in adequate Aid (if any at all), we get the same lies about how Israel is a liberal democracy. Where is its liberty in preventing any journalist from entering Gaza (even during the ceasefire, so don’t give me that crap about the safety of foreign journalists...Amira Hass, an Israeli journalist was recently placed under arrest because she got into Gaza)? We are told that Israel is not targeting civilians and yet civil institutions such as universities and the Ministry of Education have been targeted and severely damaged. The Ministry of Justice and the Foreign Ministry are utterly destroyed. If you target destroy the civic infrastructure, you can really strangle an entire people to the point where half of Gazan children have been found to have no will to live. The truth is ladies and gentlemen, if you lie enough, for long enough, you can distort anything...you can change history.

So what of Hamas’ bombings? The 23 people who have died in the last 8 years because of Katusha rockets were 23 too many. There is no doubting that sections of Hamas do want the death of as many Israeli citizens as possible and they have done more damage to the Palestinian cause than good. There are people in Israel too who wish to see the eradication of all Palestinian Arabs. The only reason why Hamas is in government is because in extreme times, people resort to extreme measures...they seek the radical solution. As Israel slaughters more innocent people in Gaza, it is sowing a hatred within a people who have been living in refugee camps for generations, because their homes are demolished by Israeli bulldozers, and this is going to give rise to a new wave of civilians deciding to become combatants.

I always hear members of the pro-Israeli camp arguing that what would Britain do in the same situation? The answer is simple, lift the blockade, return the illegally occupied territories which have been gained by slowly demolishing entire communities, stop bombing innocent civilians and apologise for the crimes committed. Once Palestinians have these, movements such as Hamas will never be able to gain support. Hamas’ greatest propaganda weapon is Israel’s mass killing.

Even within Hamas, there are others who are more rational and this I quote from the infamous Gideon Levy (an Israeli Jewish Journalist who is a public hate figure in Israel for speaking out against Israel’s atrocities...he is regularly labelled a "traitor" which you can see in comments of the last 2 articles below). I had the pleasure of meeting him 4 weeks ago after attending one of his talks and he said to me that what bothered him was that Israelis were not standing up against it. What bothered him most was that it was damaging not just the image of Israel and what it stood for, but the actions of Israel were a direct attack on what the Jewish community stood for.

I was recently given hope by the fact that in a protest outside the Israeli Embassy in London, I stood shoulder to shoulder with two Rabbis against Israel’s Operation. When a Muslim suicide bomber blows up a building killing hundreds, I curse him under my breath for bringing a bad name to Islam. I am surprised at the lack of voice from the Jewish community in condemning this recent atrocity and I ask those of you, who are Jewish, to voice your concern. This is not what Judaism stands for. Levy should be an inspiration (articles 2 and 3 are by him).

For all of us, take the time to write to your MP/MEP via www.theyworkforyou.com to express your concern. Most importantly, talk to your friends and family about this issue. Convince them so that they may convince others and one day, just maybe, someone will stand in the British Parliament and question the validity of continuing our support of Israel and the support which the US gives it. Today we are all Gazans.

Asalamo Alaikum (Peace be upon you) all.

Adil N. Ahmad
 
I don't condone terrorist activities, or Hamas rockets. They are no less evil.

It's just a realistic effort to open eyes of the atrocities going on behind closed doors.

That's what collateral damage - a term fondly used by military strategists and some politicians - really is.
 
I was recently given hope by the fact that in a protest outside the Israeli Embassy in London, I stood shoulder to shoulder with two Rabbis against Israel’s Operation. When a Muslim suicide bomber blows up a building killing hundreds, I curse him under my breath for bringing a bad name to Islam. I am surprised at the lack of voice from the Jewish community in condemning this recent atrocity and I ask those of you, who are Jewish, to voice your concern. This is not what Judaism stands for. Levy should be an inspiration (articles 2 and 3 are by him).

Aye, that is true. Especially the suicide bomb part. Good article, though some solutions such as what would Britain do can never be true.

Another thing I wanted to mention is of Al Jazeera tv (English version). Many won't like it, but it feels to be the only channel that puts a bit of light into what's happening and actually wants to show what is happening. I never used to watch it, but considering what sky, bbc etc like to show, there's nothing much better.
 

So let me guess: Israel can’t win, right?

It’s a FACT that the military power of Israel is widely superior to the Palestinian militia. This is a fact. So if Hamas launches its rockets to inhabited neighbourhoods, there are two possible consequences:
1) Israel does not retaliate, thus encouraging Hamas to indulge in this hobby of theirs even more;
2) Israel does retaliate, but then the world will condemn Israel because yes, their weapons happen to actually be more destructive than their opponents’.

I watched the video, mind and it’s terribile, don’t get me wrong. It’s unbelievable we still have to witness all this after what the world has gone through. But this thread is at page 24 at it’s not quite clear yet what should have been the RIGHT thing to do from Israel.

Seriously, and no bickering meant: what’s a strong person supposed to do when they are bullied, annoyed and kicked by a weaker opponent? What’s the most moral reply?
 
Logic failed a bit there but whatever.

Point is these things are happening and whether you accept them or not it is not an attempt to show anyone as a "blood-thirsty monster" but just the truth.

And I grow sick and tired of all this talk from Israeli supporters wanting the terrorists, Hamas, to disarm and to stop them firing rockets. Whether people want to believe it or not, both sides are the terrorists, Israel more so just due to the sheer number they killed previously but are happy to do so again and again.

Israel may have being attacked by rockets in their defense, but it is outweighed by all the killings, attacks, blockades, supply limitations. I know many will not like to hear it, but Israel are to blame. And I'm sure the 50,000 or so people that protested in London yesterday thought so as well, and I'm sure from what I saw that atleast a third of these protesters were not Muslim(judging on ethnicity, English, Americans etc but I accept some are Muslims).

How people can accept what's happening, regardless of where they're and whom they're, I'll never know.


I love the subjective use of numbers there. Over the last 60 years an estimated 12,000,000 muslims were killed in violent conflicts- of those several 10,000s in armed conflicts with Israel including most wars started by the Arabs themselves). The rest were mostly killed by their Muslim brothers. I wonder how many of those millions of deaths brought Londoners to the streets.

This morning 35 more Iraqis were killed in a suicide bombing. The UK, for it's part in the Iraq war only, is responsible for more Arab deaths than Israel would ever be so caution there with the accusations of terrorism. And that's before even considering that not a single rocket has been fired at you lot.
 
So you moan about having rockets come to you from the terrorists, so you send worse back. That makes Israel as bad as them in my eyes.

If you know how it feels to suffer like that, as humans would you want that to spread to others, especially those with little food, water and medical supplies?

Moan? Just feck off and enjoy the moral high ground while 100,000's of Israelis spend another day in their bomb-shelters.

Thankfully, still having the indepedendent state that Hamas wants to destroy means that we are less dependent on what you and the 50,000 London marchers think.
 
Ah yes, compare it with other things that are worse and it makes it perfectly fine. Disgusting.

I wonder what is the point of trying to give you reason when you send useless excuses back.
 
Ah yes, compare it with other things that are worse and it makes it perfectly fine. Disgusting.

I wonder what is the point of trying to give you reason when you send useless excuses back.

These are not "other things". Truth is that radical Islam is the worst enemy of Muslims themselves. The destruction brought on the Gaza Strip by the Hamas and Iran is just the latest example. The Saudies, Egyptians and even many Palestinians understand this. I'm not expecting you to understand this though.
 
Moan? Just feck off and enjoy the moral high ground while 100,000's of Israelis spend another day in their bomb-shelters.

Thankfully, still having the indepedendent state that Hamas wants to destroy means that we are less dependent on what you and the 50,000 London marchers think.

So you want to sling to the fact I am not personally involved, fine, I left it out previously when you mentioned it on purpose. In this thread, I have mentioned when replying that I am not personally involved so I am bound to have a different answer.

What do you want me to do, accept killings because I am not there? I am where I am because that is where I was born and can't legally move. Not my choice. You may chose not to accept it, but I would condemn the killings if it was Britain attacking, as I condemn Islamic suicide bombers.

Forgive me as I do my best to understand the suffering you have though I can never fully understand it, but personal attacks won't take us anywhere.

It's been 24 or so pages of bickering as Red-Wedge mentioned. How about we try and find some solutions to end the long standing violence once again?
 
These are not "other things". Truth is that radical Islam is the worst enemy of Muslims themselves. The destruction brought on the Gaza Strip by the Hamas and Iran is just the latest example. The Saudies, Egyptians and even many Palestinians understand this. I'm not expecting you to understand this though.

Don't go into a subject you'll remain ignorant in all your life, you can never, based on what you've shown me, understand what 'radical' Islam is even if I sat here for 20 years and tried. And as for you not expecting me to understand, I wouldn't expect you too.