The US is not th only one against a cease fire or against this action. Believe it or not some Arabs and/or Muslims are also tired of Hamas' bullshit. Egypt, Syrians and Palastinians (Abbas) are also done with their policies. The problem is Hamas have the Palastinians in a stranglehold so this will continue, unfortunatly.
Scores die in Israeli air strikes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The US is not th only one against a cease fire or against this action. Believe it or not some Arabs and/or Muslims are also tired of Hamas' bullshit. Egypt, Syrians and Palastinians (Abbas) are also done with their policies. The problem is Hamas have the Palastinians in a stranglehold so this will continue, unfortunatly.
Oh no. Haven't you heard? If Israel just stays back and ignores all threats and acts of violece against it, Hamas will start having bake sales and life will rosey.
For nearly two generations the extremist wing on one side has harboured terrorists whilst the other side two generations have cropped out of the fear of survival and being irrationally proactive to attacks. Even if a two state solution can be forced by the UN, it would be only a matter of decade before they implode together as a whole. Even if the killings stops tommorow, it would take another 50 or 60 years for this bloodshed to end, only then people on both sides would be in a better frame of mind to guage their priorities right.
You truely are ignorant.
It is undeniable from the perspective of the left, right, and middle that the Israeli troop's goal is to inflict as much damage as possible to the Gazans, whether it be young, middle aged, or elderly.
What I found to be a shocking statistic amongst the Palestinians: the average age of the people that live in the concentration camp called the Gaza Strip is 17 years old.
Now, this would mean one of a few contributing factors. Either the Israelis are starving the people to death, or the healthcare is nothing more than third world medical, or the Israeli soldiers have murdered most of the adults.
Which one is it HolyRed?
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The propaganda pouring from the CNN channel, today is repulsive.
Michael Oren, an Israeli think-tank (in other words, professional bullshitter) person claimed that Israel can not make the same mistake of letting Hamas off the hook lightly, as they allowed the Hezbulah off easy during the summer of 2006.
Holy fecking crap... Isreal feckin' flattening enormous areas of Lebonan during that period. So much so, the had to evacuate many areas.
If that was a tip-toe, I can't imagine the carnage they will create this time.
*Oh, and a special request to the Moderators: Please Change Holyland Red's tag... there is nothing 'Holy' about his positions of policy and nothing Holy about the region he is from.
(Almost forgot that winky smiley,
)
'truly'...ignorant.
It's very far from undeniable. In fact it's very easily deniable.
If the Israelis wanted to inflict as much damage as possible on Gaza, within about a day there'd be no Gaza. Civilian casualties are high because Hamas deliberately use their own people as a human shield, putting rocket launchers and arms dumps in schools, houses, mosques. Like every army in every war in history, the IDF cares considerably more about protecting its own soldiers than the enemy population. But they actually go to some lengths to limit civilian casualties - not because they give a shit, but because the more civilians hurt the worse for Israel's image abroad.
Er, or they have a lot of kids, Einstein. Check out the birth rates in other places that are a) very poor and/or b) have quite a lot of religious people in the population.
It wouldn't take Israel much to blow up the entire Gaza had it been their priority.
Then Americans shouldn't have fiddled with Syria, Libya or even Afganistan and certainly the world would've been a much safer place now.
CNN International had been reporting about the ground invasion, this morning.
Rather than give a full account of what's going on in Gaza, CNN puts some Israeli dude on the air that had a compliant about the noise coming from the invasion.
He was having trouble sleeping.
I'm not exactly sure as to which was more fecked up, the Israeli guy that lives near the Gaza Strip complaining or CNN airing his phone call.
That's a tough one.
Rather than give a full account of what's going on in Gaza, CNN puts some Israeli dude on the air that had a compliant about the noise coming from the invasion.
He was having trouble sleeping.
I'm not exactly sure as to which was more fecked up, the Israeli guy that lives near the Gaza Strip complaining or CNN airing his phone call.
That's a tough one.
This statement makes about as much sense as the dude complaining about the noise.
Take responsibility for your fecked up crap without trying to distract people with the American feck ups, thank you!
That one deserved a 2 winker.
The wonderful effects of Fox News eh. Becareful though, Barack HUSSEIN Obama is going to run the country, oh noes!
Bob, you're simply writing your notions, counting the casualities on both sides, choosing the ignore the political implication of attacks triggered by any terrorist group be it Hezbollah or Hamas.
1) It can be argued whether Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.
2) Casualties is an indicator, you cant seriously justify a military method that kills hundreds of women and children.
You keep falling back on that same talking-point... I wish the tv would feed you something more interesting of substanitive.
Besides, you are wrong. I am suprised that the world hasn't forced the Israelis to attempt something different, something other than what's going on, today.
Stop using this stupid stupid argument "if Israel wanted conflict and wipe out Gaza they would". I'm sure they would if they could but for the international pressure.
Absolutely disgusting statement.
We need to make the Palestinians lose weight, but not to starve to death - Dov Weissglas, adviser to Ehud Olmert
That's the reality in Gaza, Israel would do worse if it could get away with it
It's less stupid than the argument Bob and others frequently make - that they're killing as many Palestinians as they can. They're quite patently not, and they'd kill a lot less if Hamas didn't use their own people as shields.
It's fairly simple. The IDF, like all armies engaged in war, don't really give a feck about civilian casualties, but don't like bad publicity. Not giving a feck about civilian casualties is bad, but not nearly as bad as Hamas and similar terrorists, who actively seek them on both the enemy's and, perversely, their own side, and if they had Israel's power would kill every last enemy civilian they could find - save for the Arabs and perhaps the odd Druze and Bedouin if they were feeling nice - and 'international pressure' be damned.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5446519.ece
Disclaimer: I'm not posting an article saying that I necessarily agree with it all, but merely in the interests of debate and discussion.
No its not fairly simple, the fact you say such things makes you a prime cock.
Clearly the conflict is far from simple. The question of whether the Israelis are deliberately targetting civilians or, in Bob's words, 'killing as many Gazans as possible', is simple: they're not. They're hardheaded intransigent bastards and they're fighting a war against hardheaded intransigent religious fanatic bastards who keep rocket-launchers in mosques and hospitals.
I'm not going to trade insults. Talking about the Arab-Israeli conflict is always an exercise in futility, I'm going to stop now.
That was said with tongue in cheek.
I hate to tell you but BHO has already stated he understands the Israelis. You remember the whole 'rockets raining down where my girls live' thing. Plus I always love the Fox News blast, very cliche'.
absolutely superb video by Ron Paul
Has any told Ron Paul the election is over and he lost? That blurb could not have been more politically motivated. Any good points he tries to raise are wiped out by his 2 minute diatribe at the end.
I never thought I would say this but Ron Paul is absolutely right.
Hes rich enough and independent enough not to be dependent on voters or lobbyists.
Hate his politics of course but hes dead right on this.
Middle East is not worth a damn.
Hes rich enough and independent enough not to be dependent on voters or lobbyists.
Hate his politics of course but hes dead right on this.
Middle East is not worth a damn.
The feck you ARE going to stop!!!
Listen you feckin' manipulating cock, I've made every effort to describe the injustice of both sides. Both sides have chosen poor avenues to meet the ends of their desires.
For clearity, I did say that the IDF were somewhat thinning the Palestinian heard. It is exactly what the representitives from Israel are saying. The only difference is that they're saying that they look to a time when they can work towards peace.
If I may quote the Israel propagandist Michael Oren again in his words, 'Peace will not be possible until more Gazan blood is spilt.'
Yes, I do see things excellerating towards a complete genocide. Oh, and Plech you rat fecker... you know damn well the response is radically heavy handed. I'm not sure where you are getting your news from, but hear in the States, all of the news channels are saying the same thing, that the response is shockingly heavy handed.
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In response to the article by Michael Lerner, a close personal friend of mine with whom I've had several conversations with, within groups and one-on-one. Only our discussions have been limited to the Iraq/Afghan conflicts and environmental stuff. Honestly, I have avoided discussing the topic of Israel with him;
The following says everything that the Israeli government refuses to acknowledge in the sense of the real world and honest intentions.
'The most significant contribution the new Obama administration could make to Middle East peace would be to embrace a strategy that homeland security is best achieved not by military or economic domination but by generosity and caring for others. If this new way of thinking could become a serious part of US policy, it would have an immense impact on undermining the fearful consciousness of Israelis who still see the world more through the frame of the Holocaust and previous persecutions than through the frame of their actual present power in the world.'
This is Israel's last ditch effort to leave an impact on the people that live within Gaza. They know damn well that George Bush will be in the White House cheering the blood-bath on with great glee.
With the incoming Obama, things will be different.
In closing to reaffirm my objectivity... all sides of the equation of desperate like rabid animals clawing at each other. The only difference is that Israel has sharper teeth and cause more damage. That's just the plain ugly truth.
Plech, you can play the 'Bob is crazy' card all day... but all through the day the reports prove you and people like yourself that justify the IDF response to be blood-thirsty dogs.
*Almost forgot the
, again... 'fecking manipulating cock' was meant to be expressed in the kindest and most gentle way. I think I began to write 'rat-fecker' but it didn't make the final edit. That would have been expressed in the kindest terms, as well.Sorry, but this is how I get when some idiot attempts to paint me as an anti-semite.
You are such a daft cnut, aren't you?
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/socind/health.htm
Life expectancy is higher and child mortality rates are lower in the WB and Gaza than in most Arab countries. Does that mean that:
1. The IDF does it's best to care for Palestinians.
2. Israel sanitizes the areas from the air with its air force.
3. Israel feeds the Palestinians with lots of Omega-3 pills.
4. You're an absolute idiot.
I'm not going to play your silly fecking game, unHolyland Red.
I could drive convoy of sarcasm through the first two points, but I'm tired.
Who knows, maybe tomorrow will be a new day and we'll all find it in our hearts to be nice to each other and treat others with the kindness that we expect to be treated.
Good night and may God be with you and Plech.
There's nothing even remotely sinister about that statistic.
Median age in the following countries:
Yemen 16.7 years
Gaza 17.2
Syria 21.4
Saudi Arabia 21.5
Jordan 23.9
Egypt 24.5
USA 36.7
United Kingdom 39.9
Italy 42.9, Germany 43.4, Japan 43.8 (world's second highest, just behind Monaco)
Birth rate (births per 1000 population):
Yemen 42.42
Gaza 37.75
Saudi Arabia 28.85
Syria 26.57
Jordan 20.13
Egypt 22.12
USA 14.18
United Kingdom 10.65
Italy 8.36, Germany 8.18, Japan 7.87 (second lowest, just behind Hong Kong)
Women in Gaza have three times as many children as their British counterparts, five times as many as the Japanese. Generally speaking the population of the Middle East is growing rapidly, and is younger than at any point in the region's history - arguably, in human history (barring nations decimated by wars of attrition). Meanwhile Europe and Japan keep getting smaller and older.
And just so we're clear here, it's not Israel's fault.
don´t stop Pletch - you are bringing reality to this thread
PS
Where is our wonderful ex PM Mr Bliar - now Mid East Peace Envoy - he seems to be missing a few photo opportunities - which is highly unusual .
er on Holidays perhaps
Stop before you hurt yourself.
don´t stop Pletch - you are bringing reality to this thread
PS
Where is our wonderful ex PM Mr Bliar - now Mid East Peace Envoy - he seems to be missing a few photo opportunities - which is highly unusual .
er on Holidays perhaps
I thought he was taking his class at Yale?
A journey into the heart of the enemy
*
This article originally appeared in Imke Ahlf-Wien's Arabic-German translation in the Kölner Stadt Anzeiger on May 13, 2008.
Najem Wali was born in Basra in 1956 and fled Saddam Hussein's regime in 1980. Today he lives in Hamburg. His novel "Jussifs Gesichter" (Jussif's faces) was published by Hanser Verlag in February. His "Journey to Tel al-Lahm" will be published in English in spring 2009 by MacAdamCage, followed by his "Journey into the Heart of the Enemy" in the autumn.
*
This article originally appeared in Imke Ahlf-Wien's Arabic-German translation in the Kölner Stadt Anzeiger on May 13, 2008.
Najem Wali was born in Basra in 1956 and fled Saddam Hussein's regime in 1980. Today he lives in Hamburg. His novel "Jussifs Gesichter" (Jussif's faces) was published by Hanser Verlag in February. His "Journey to Tel al-Lahm" will be published in English in spring 2009 by MacAdamCage, followed by his "Journey into the Heart of the Enemy" in the autumn.
This guy is dead on, but he fails to address the underlying, inexplicable hatred and dislike for Jews and Israel which drive much, not all, of the shit they get internationally.
Israeli Foreign Minister News Conference soon....
Dateline: January 3rd 1944
Fury continues to mount worldwide about the senseless loss of civilian life in Germany caused by England's callous bombing of German cities including Berlin, Hamburg and Dresden.
As of today many innocent German women and children have died in these utterly brutal bombing missions. And now there are ground offensives starting on mainland Europe.
The English have claimed that they are merely retaliating against the V-1 flying bombs being launched indiscriminately by Nazis at their civilian population in London, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Coventry and other cities. The English point out that their enemy is sworn to its utter destruction and has used the missiles and flying bombs against its civilians without any regard to English loss of life. Moreover it makes the case that their own bombing missions are specifically directed to military targets that the German army has intentionally planted in the heart of civilian populations to try and deter English counter-attacks.
These points may of course be true - but they are utterly besides the point.
Of course England has a right to exist. Of course England has a right to defend itself. But it should ensure that its responses are PROPORTIONATE.
Since many more Germans are dying than English - the English should either tone down the success and accuracy of their bombing - or allow the Germans to catch up on the death count.
To be honest - if more English women and children were dying - we wouldn't feel quite so bad about the number of Germans dying. But it's just so UNFAIR that more Germans are dying...
Perhaps some English people could arrange to kill themselves to match the number of Germans dying as a result of the English retaliation bombing? It would be so considerate - and it might help England's critics feel less miserable about the number of Nazis dying. Something that is causing them so much concern.
It would also put paid to that wretched proportionality argument.
Alternatively, perhaps the English could arrange to be less effective in their bombing? Or only bomb military targets that are nowhere near civilians - even though the vast majority of the V-1 rockets are intentionally being launched from the heart of civilian population centers.
Now the English will argue that the Germans have INTENTIONALLY positioned all their launch pads for the V-1 rockets in the middle of civilian populations to inhibit the English from bombing those launch sites. Well - tough noogies to the Brits! Sorry - but if the Germans are smarter or more skillful at cynically using their civilians as human shields than you - tough luck!
You can't have it both ways. If you truly wish to save your nation from being annihilated by Nazi missiles you'd better stop looking to win a popularity contest. The Nazis are waging this war to win and to utterly destroy England. If all you Brits care about is popularity - then you may as well resign yourself to speaking German...
It's about time that little nations who wish to defend themselves wised up to their responsibilities.
Otherwise the same stupid complaints will be made at some point in the 21st Century when some little nation finds itself under constant attack from rockets fired at its civilian population by a terrorizing enemy that has sworn to destroy it....
Fury continues to mount worldwide about the senseless loss of civilian life in Germany caused by England's callous bombing of German cities including Berlin, Hamburg and Dresden.
As of today many innocent German women and children have died in these utterly brutal bombing missions. And now there are ground offensives starting on mainland Europe.
The English have claimed that they are merely retaliating against the V-1 flying bombs being launched indiscriminately by Nazis at their civilian population in London, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Coventry and other cities. The English point out that their enemy is sworn to its utter destruction and has used the missiles and flying bombs against its civilians without any regard to English loss of life. Moreover it makes the case that their own bombing missions are specifically directed to military targets that the German army has intentionally planted in the heart of civilian populations to try and deter English counter-attacks.
These points may of course be true - but they are utterly besides the point.
Of course England has a right to exist. Of course England has a right to defend itself. But it should ensure that its responses are PROPORTIONATE.
Since many more Germans are dying than English - the English should either tone down the success and accuracy of their bombing - or allow the Germans to catch up on the death count.
To be honest - if more English women and children were dying - we wouldn't feel quite so bad about the number of Germans dying. But it's just so UNFAIR that more Germans are dying...
Perhaps some English people could arrange to kill themselves to match the number of Germans dying as a result of the English retaliation bombing? It would be so considerate - and it might help England's critics feel less miserable about the number of Nazis dying. Something that is causing them so much concern.
It would also put paid to that wretched proportionality argument.
Alternatively, perhaps the English could arrange to be less effective in their bombing? Or only bomb military targets that are nowhere near civilians - even though the vast majority of the V-1 rockets are intentionally being launched from the heart of civilian population centers.
Now the English will argue that the Germans have INTENTIONALLY positioned all their launch pads for the V-1 rockets in the middle of civilian populations to inhibit the English from bombing those launch sites. Well - tough noogies to the Brits! Sorry - but if the Germans are smarter or more skillful at cynically using their civilians as human shields than you - tough luck!
You can't have it both ways. If you truly wish to save your nation from being annihilated by Nazi missiles you'd better stop looking to win a popularity contest. The Nazis are waging this war to win and to utterly destroy England. If all you Brits care about is popularity - then you may as well resign yourself to speaking German...
It's about time that little nations who wish to defend themselves wised up to their responsibilities.
Otherwise the same stupid complaints will be made at some point in the 21st Century when some little nation finds itself under constant attack from rockets fired at its civilian population by a terrorizing enemy that has sworn to destroy it....
You're losing the plot mate.
Carry on!
Carry on!