Most people thought it was plain to see his passing was shite, turns out they were wrong
Central midfield this season...
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So your stupid enough to think posting your fecking stats again proves he made any intelligent passes?
FFS Do you actually have a brain? Because if you did and actually used it to watch our game last night, you wouldn't dare attempt to defend Carrick after the shit he pulled yesterday. Or claim Fletcher "ran around a bit, some expectations"
But its you after all. the dim wit who blamed our whipping we got from Milan on our missing defenders, and not Carrick's failure to show up in midfield, not to mention the fact Makelele is a playmaker in your opinion.
Can't argue the facts, bring up the Milan match, well done Rubber
No, most people thought he was shite yesterday despite the number of passes he made.
Turns out they are 100% correct.
Rubbish, the point made was he gave it away too much, Fletcher gave it away just as often, never mentioned until I bought it up because he's judged on his running around, which takes no skill, he can do it against any one
Its not just the fans, both Fergie and Rooney thought Fletcher was the best player on the pitch.
It's not unless it's combined with skill
You make it sound like running around at full throttle for 90 mins is no big deal.
I can't argue the factsWhen it's you posting a chalk board of passes as evidence of "playing well". Like you never actually watched the match with your eyes. A chalk board doesn't show you how lousy the passes actually were nor how pointless they were. All it shows you is where the direction in which they were completed.
And FYI I brought up the Milan match one example of your classic stupidity. It wasn't the only example I brought up either.
You are one fecking idiot, it's true. Fletcher didn't just run around, He forced the oppsoiton to give away the ball as much as we were doing. Protecting our defence time and again form their attempts at through balls. Meanwhile your beloved Carrick on the other hand gave it away repeatedly and did next to nothing to retrieve it the majority of the time. For you to even attempt to compare the too just shows how obtuse you are then it comes ot Carrick. Made worse by the fact that you think Carrick is being judged by higher expectations. When he couldn't even meet the bare minimum requirement for his role yesterday.
When it's you posting a chalk board of passes as evidence of "playing well". Like you never actually watched the match with your eyes. A chalk board doesn't show you how lousy the passes actually were nor how pointless they were. All it shows you is where the direction in which they were completed.
And FYI I brought up the Milan match one example of your classic stupidity. It wasn't the only example I brought up either.
Correct. What did it show of Fletchers passing? Barely a pass in the oppositions half, most of his passes backwards or sideways. Despite the safe nature of his passes he still managed to give it away more the Carrick
He prefers people to play like Carrick did yesteday. To not contribute defensively, not help out creatively yet complete 85% of their pointless passes. That for him constitutes good midfield play. Anything else in his book is just "running around".
You make it sound like running around at full throttle for 90 mins is no big deal.
Safe nature my arse. You clearly never watched the game at all! Most of Carrick passes were to people marked or not free in space. The majority of the forward ones too were either to no one or to people in no mans land or marked by 2 opponents.
Almost all Fletcher's passes were attempted to a free man in space to do something in comparison.
Watching Essien yesterday really pained me.
That guy is immense.
That guy is immense.
Did Carrick play yesterday?
What were you expecting, the opposition to leave our players the freedom of the park?
Midfield is just not good enough at this moment in time. Fletcher is above everyone in that he is a playing consitantly well but Carrick and Giggs were very poor. Carrick is a very good player but he is in poor form, hopefully he can shake out of it and come back from the international break in a bit of form.
Well to pass it straight to the opponent leading almost to a goal if not for Foster's great safe isn't the best way is it?
Mozza again in kissing Carrick's ass shocker.
Get all the completion pass rate you want, Fletcher outperformed him yesterday
Get all the completion pass rate you want, Fletcher outperformed him yesterday
I don't see that anything I said was that low. Unless you enjoy Carrick giving the ball away more than doing something useful.
Carrick made more backwards and 5 yards passes. He also gave the ball away needlessly more. Fletcher was higher up the pitch trying to play attacking balls.
What annoyed me yesterday about Carrick, and Giggs actually, was that they made no effort to win the ball or close people down. They were letting Arsenal play. Fletcher was doing the running for all three. It was ridiculous. It seems to be that when Fletcher is playing, the other midfielders seem to think that they don't have to make an effort to win the ball back. Why the hell can't they close players down also?
Fletcher was the best player on the pitch. The fact that Mozza actually believes that Carrick was better says it all. Carrick was very poor.
There's obviously a big difference between Fletcher's all action box to box play rather than 'running around abit' as someone suggest here.
Take for example Anderson does run about abit too, but he was never box to box as per Keano and he has been in a disappointing form lately.
Take for example Anderson does run about abit too, but he was never box to box as per Keano and he has been in a disappointing form lately.
Yeah don't mention his superb closing down of opponents, important tackles, holding the defensive line at points. All he did was some "running around".
So did Carrick
Fletcher is our first choice and best central midfielder. FACT
nowhere close to the same extent.
Carrick didnt close down on Saturday
The point made was that Carrick:
Didn't contribute much going forward - no incisive passes, no creativity
Didn't contribute much in front of defense - didn't win ball back much and allowed every Arsenal player to run past him like he didn't exist
Played safe sideways and 5 yard passes but didn't use the ball well.
Overall, he lacked pace, mobility, bite, creativity and workrate - utter cack besides passing the ball sideways or 5 yards
Carrick is judged on his invisibilty which takes no skill and no effort either - he does it against everyone.
I'm not really sure the idea that he's our best midfielder is a fact.
He contributed more then Fletcher going forward with his passing
Won the ball well enough, tracked his man, Fletcher himself said he didn't clear the ball well enough in the lead up to their goal
You've ignored the chalkboards I posted of where the players passed the ball, Fletchers passing was far more conservative then Carricks and still less accurate
Why would someone who isn't the best be first choice ahead of the best or start ahead of the best in a big game?
Carrick made a shedload more passes, that much is obvious. But passing isn't really Fletcher's game, no matter what people keep telling me on here.
And you've ignored the comments of Sir Alex and Rooney after the game
He was shite going forward. He never closed players down. He was shite. Simple as. The fact that Fletcher completely outperformed him when not at his complete best says it all.
Fletch isn't frightened to make forward runs into space and contribute in attack. Our best chance in the first half was when he chested down a Rooney pass and volleyed just over the bar. He also played a couple of brilliant passes that put Nani/Rooney on a counter attack.
He may not make a zillion safe passes but played more insisive ones - quality and not quantity.
Either Mozza is truely married to Carrick, and she's doing her duty to protect her man no matter what or she's on vying for the 'Windup of the Year Award'.
Which is it?
Which is it?
That's what I thought too. Fletcher also contributed much to our attack, especially when he turned the defense into attack in the way similar to what Keane did when he was always the first to organise the play.
Creativity is what we lack in the central midfield and it is that much obvious. Carrick has been a shit on a stick since day one of the current season and he doesn't look to improve his game yesterday. The trouble is - we don't have much options but to wait until he improves his game.
Carrick is a feckin liability right now and if he gives away another woeful appearance against Spurs next week(if he starts) he should be dropped IMO. Giggs had a shocker in the first half but at least he improved to some extend in the 2nd. Fletcher was head and shoulders above anyone else, but Valencia as well was terrible.
If Carrick doesn't improve and fast, I can't see who can we put instead of him in the middle. Wonder why we didn't go after Diego or Sneijder, it's really what we needed even before we sold Ronaldo or Tevez. Anderson's passing is not something you can rely on at the moment, Scholes himself has up and downs and that leaves us with Giggs in the center as the most consistent passer there which says it all.
The only thing that worries me at the moment is not who'll score the goals(as Rooney is showing that he can at the moment), but the severe lack of creativity in midfield.
Carrick is a feckin liability right now and if he gives away another woeful appearance against Spurs next week(if he starts) he should be dropped IMO. Giggs had a shocker in the first half but at least he improved to some extend in the 2nd. Fletcher was head and shoulders above anyone else, but Valencia as well was terrible.
If Carrick doesn't improve and fast, I can't see who can we put instead of him in the middle. Wonder why we didn't go after Diego or Sneijder, it's really what we needed even before we sold Ronaldo or Tevez. Anderson's passing is not something you can rely on at the moment, Scholes himself has up and downs and that leaves us with Giggs in the center as the most consistent passer there which says it all.
The only thing that worries me at the moment is not who'll score the goals(as Rooney is showing that he can at the moment), but the severe lack of creativity in midfield.
Typical. I expected Carrick to create space with his passing. Plus give peope a chance to escape their markers with his passes. Which is called creatng play. Instead he made a very good job of making sure it was impossible for anyone who recived the ball from him to do much with it. But you were to busy worshiping him to notice.
Spot on.
I see. Thus going by what you are saying, since Carrick passed "better" and defended "just as well", he should have been named man of the match, or at least suggested for it ahead of Fletcher by Rooney and Fergie, Correct?