Everyone was poor in the first half. Stoke parked the bus and Nani found it difficult to beat the defenders because there were always two or three players nearby.
Nani
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He couldn't have looked any worse this season than he did last. There's a reason he missed most of the second half of last season.
Granted Stoke is a tough game, but Nani had plenty of opportunities to create something today and didn't. A 35 year old then comes on and do what he failed to do within 5 minutes.
I understand all of this, but it is just the look, that look from SAF, if I had to watch that on a replay, I would be very uncomfortable. It looks like SAF only reacts to Nani when he misplaced a pass or hits the ball skywards.
I asked that question because now what the Camera men know that SAF react so as soon as Nani does something, they immediately put it on him to get his reaction and it makes it seems like he only reacts to Nani though that is not the case.
That AS well. Theres definately more emphasis on Fergie's reactions from Nani's misses than anyone elses ( e.g Berba's or Owen's in recent games).
fecking hell Elvis you really do hate him don't you? He has a poor performance today and now you lot are going mental, typical.
Let's not forget that both our wingers were poor, and this might, just might have something to do with the fact that Stoke have the most narrow pitch in the Premiership, which makes it very difficult for them. Add to that the fact that Stokes back line are all absolutely massive, which makes it very difficult to cross in.
I'm not denying Nani was poor, he was, but it's the first poor game he's had this season. Rooney had a poor game too but I doubt anyone will be giving him stick. Over fecking reaction central.
Let's not forget that both our wingers were poor, and this might, just might have something to do with the fact that Stoke have the most narrow pitch in the Premiership, which makes it very difficult for them. Add to that the fact that Stokes back line are all absolutely massive, which makes it very difficult to cross in.
I'm not denying Nani was poor, he was, but it's the first poor game he's had this season. Rooney had a poor game too but I doubt anyone will be giving him stick. Over fecking reaction central.
'it factor'? can you translate that into footballing terms please
Not possible but when a young player has it, you can tell. Players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Fabregas, they have it very early and you can see it, but can't describe what it is.
His decision making and final ball were poor. He's getting better, but just doesn't have the footballing brain yet. He'll still come good I believe.
In that case "it" obviously means being fecking amazing at football. Not hard to describe, in fairness.
To be fair to Nani, neither he nor Valencia managed fcuk all today. Why keep putting in crosses over the top when your team is considerably smaller. Sort that out fellas.
Yep. Giggs has to play he's clearly our most in form player who can play wide. Unfortunately for Nani he's a left sided player, although he could play from the right too. Nani is still much more of a threat than Valencia or Park though even in a couple of poor matches.
had his good moments...had his bad. typical nani match. he wasn't the only one today. stoke's defence had a lot to do with it.
Well, it's not really fair to Nani when the 35 year old is arguably the best player in league.
How often do Stoke concede goals at home?
Not an easy place to create/score goals. Shouldn't be too harsh on any of our attacking players. As has already been pointed out, Rooney didn't get any joy either.
Not an easy place to create/score goals. Shouldn't be too harsh on any of our attacking players. As has already been pointed out, Rooney didn't get any joy either.
His game today, is still miles better than it was just a few months ago. We can't expect him to match Giggs decision making, composure and vision. That comes with experience. What we should expect is that he makes progress. And this season, he seems to have picked up where he left off in his first season. I think his departure is more to do with him having played 90 mins on Wed.
He's been in England several years, he's not going to suddenly become a completely different player. He's only slightly less frustrating than Nani, but in a different way. Nani is always trying to create and make something happen and it only happens for him a fraction of the time.
Valencia is playing the safe pass, backwards or square 90% of the time. He can beat his man for fun on a good day but his crossing is mediocre at best and in the end he doesnt bring a lot to our attack. Its frustrating because you want more than that from a winger.
Ah I wouldn't go that far in fairness, SAF (and most of us) knew Giggs could potentially change the game and do much more damage than Nani was doing with free kicks and corners, which he did. Nani is only 22, he's more than capable of playing full games twice a week.
His departure has everything to do with a ball he fecked up, as soon as he did that, the Camera went to SAF and he clearly gave the nod to someone to get Giggs on. The next min, Giggs had finished his warming up and Nani was gone.
I want to give him time, but unfortunately SAF makes his decisions and we all know how SAF has his favorites and those who don't fall into that category. cough TK
Gee, I wonder is that in any way linked to him being a few weeks into his United career?
You're a tard if you're ruling out the possibility of him improving as a player now he's signed for United.
Its early days thou, give it time....
Exactly. Nani always goes for the spectacular, be it to use trickery to go past a defender, take a long shot or try a crazy pass. When he fails it's obviously a lot more noticeable and frustrating, when he succeeds (Charity Shield goal, amazing through ball for Berbamiss against Arsenal) it looks great. The main problem is that it doesn't succeed enough.
You're a tard if you think improving as a player means becoming a completely different player, which is what I said. He can improve but dont expect miracles. Most likely he'll slightly improve his end product and that'll be about it.
No, I don't hate him. I'm just being honest in what I think of him. I don't think he'll cut it at United unless there's a big improvement from him this season.
As I've said, I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong, and I hope he comes on leaps and bounds over the coming months, because our wide players are average at best at the moment. I've not seen enough of Tosic or Llajic to make a comment on them, but Park, Valencia and Nani doesn't fill me with too much confidence if I'm being honest.
I'm not saying they didn't have a difficult task, of course they did, but Nani had chances today (I managed to get a stream about 30 minutes into the match, prior to that I'm going off what I heard on the radio and several responses in the match day thread), to create something today but didn't.
Rooney has been superb this season, that's why. Nani hasn't.
I'm more talking about him settling into a new team and getting used to the way we play, that's always going to take time and isn't going to be a 1 or 2 game transition. It'll take a good few months.
I agree with you. I think I've already mentioned it in this thread about Valencia. As you said he tends to play it safe, or keep hold of the ball too long and lose the opportunity. Lots of his crosses never beat the first man either.
As mentioned above, our current options out wide don't fill me with confidence at the minute.
Saying that we're top of the league with 18 points out of 21, so I'm happy
That's retarded, you think that players cannot learn new things and adapt their game?
What the feck has becoming a "completely different player" got to with anything?
He's a winger for feck's sake. We're not hoping he can develop into a striker or a central defender. Some all round improvement will do nicely and he's well capable of that.
This is the Nani thread, the squabble over Valencia should kindly go to the The Val's thread
This the new Berbatov vs Tevez.... keep up.
A 24 year old is going to learn to play their game better, not play a new game. Most of the not so good things about Valencia will stay, but he'll improve in a few key areas to make better use of his speed and to improve his end product a bit. He'll get a bit better than his best Wigan form, but he's unlikey to ever be one of the best wingers in Europe.
You replied to my post which said "He's not going to become a completely different player". So you tell me what your post, about him never improving, has to do with that. You're the one who somehow linked it to never improving as a player.
There are a lot of people making excuses for him, and shit ones at that. People are saying that he was poor, but so was Valencia and so was Rooney, that's nice but it's absolutely irrelevant to the debate at hand. It's not a defence of Nani it's a criticism of some other people. I'd like to see some people explain why he's not had any particularly good games, rather than just making excuses for the bad ones.
He has had particularly good games so you dont need an explaination.
Elvis is on a mission it seems
It's annoying because he is often being singled out for criticism, whereas other players who played equally as bad or worse, does not. Some may claim that this is Valencia's first year with us, but the fact is that Nani did not play very much last year, while Valencia was a first teamer for Wigan and enjoyed plenty of football in the league. To me they should be on level terms yet some people are never satisfied until they see the back of him.
Some people seem to overlook why Nani was not played much last season.
I'm starting to get pissed off with the way Rooney reacts to Nani. I've noticed it before and thought about making a thread, but today he was terrible. It's very reminiscient of how Ruud used to react to Ronaldo, yelling at him, throwing up his arms and just basically blaming him constantly even when Nani makes the right decision but it just doesn't quite come off. Very bad for the confidence and morale of the player on the receiving end.
Happened three times in the first half. First time Nani actually made the right decision to try to play Berbatov in behind the defence, while Rooney was screaming for it out on the left. If it had worked Berba would've been straight in on the keeper, so even though it didn't quite work it was still the right attempted ball from Nani. But Rooney went off his nut because he didn't get the ball where and when he wanted it.
Second time was when Rooney put Nani away on a counter-attack and Nani should have played a ball across to Berbatov. That was a bad decision on Nani, but I'm not sure exactly what Rooney went off about. If it was about playing in Berbatov then fair enough, but if he wanted it cut back to him at the point where Nani had the shot then no, Nani was in a better position to take it than Rooney was. Commentators were saying it was the latter, but I wasn't sure myself.
Third time was when Nani put in a high cross from the left. I remember thinking at the time that it was a great cross because it was between two defenders and too far from the keeper for him to come out, but the next thing I knew Rooney was going off at Nani yet again saying he wanted it down low.
I'm pretty sure it happened again in the second half, but can't remember the situation.
As they were walking off at halftime Rooney went off and was talking to him, and that's fair enough. That's what we want to see, constructive criticism. Not one player completely going off his nut, sometimes wrongly, at another just because he didn't get the ball exactly how he wanted it. Especially when Rooney made a number of very similar decisions throughout the match.
Happened three times in the first half. First time Nani actually made the right decision to try to play Berbatov in behind the defence, while Rooney was screaming for it out on the left. If it had worked Berba would've been straight in on the keeper, so even though it didn't quite work it was still the right attempted ball from Nani. But Rooney went off his nut because he didn't get the ball where and when he wanted it.
Second time was when Rooney put Nani away on a counter-attack and Nani should have played a ball across to Berbatov. That was a bad decision on Nani, but I'm not sure exactly what Rooney went off about. If it was about playing in Berbatov then fair enough, but if he wanted it cut back to him at the point where Nani had the shot then no, Nani was in a better position to take it than Rooney was. Commentators were saying it was the latter, but I wasn't sure myself.
Third time was when Nani put in a high cross from the left. I remember thinking at the time that it was a great cross because it was between two defenders and too far from the keeper for him to come out, but the next thing I knew Rooney was going off at Nani yet again saying he wanted it down low.
I'm pretty sure it happened again in the second half, but can't remember the situation.
As they were walking off at halftime Rooney went off and was talking to him, and that's fair enough. That's what we want to see, constructive criticism. Not one player completely going off his nut, sometimes wrongly, at another just because he didn't get the ball exactly how he wanted it. Especially when Rooney made a number of very similar decisions throughout the match.
Of the two of them, Valencia deserves slack for at least the first 6 months of his United career, just like every new signing. Only a (Mc)feckwit would think that the massive improvement in coaching, training and team-mates that comes with a move to United won't improve him as a footballer. These changes will obviously take a few months to kick in.
Nani also deserves some slack while he gets this run of games people have been saying was all he needed to impress. So far he's impressed in some games but not in others.
How long this run of games needs to be in order for him to finally impress on a consistent basis remains to be seen. Regardless, the pressure is on him - in his third season at the club - much more than it is on Valencia - in his third month at the club - or at least it would be if there weren't so many tools determined to write Valencia off before his career at United had even begun.
That is what SAF is also doing not just Rooney. You should see SAF when Nani makes a bad decision. I wonder why he is not like that to all players, even Foster is spared the public reaction.
Perhaps he is losing patience?
Well said about Valencia aswell, Pogue. Some are far too quick to judge. Same happened with Evra and Vidic and they are now 2 of our most important players.
Who is able to do that?
Fletcher was...Today he didnt impress.
Rooney? Today he wasnt that good.
There aren't many players that are really able to impress game in game out, but you are right he should be able to to it more often.
I think you missed the point...