Nani

jdmufc said:
ok, the camp seems pretty split on nani.

here´s the question........

would you keep him here next season or would you replace him with someone else??
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It depends on how he gets on this season. It really is make or break. He will play enough games to acquire the attributes that most on here claim he doesn't have. It's up to him to earn his place. He certainly has the skills to do it.
 
jdmufc said:
ok, the camp seems pretty split on nani.

here´s the question........

would you keep him here next season or would you replace him with someone else??
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Entirely depends on how he does this season. If he develops his footballing brain and shows the talent everybody knows he has consistently, then you'd be a fool to sell him.

If, however, he continues the way he has, then get rid.
 
esmufc09 said:
Entirely depends on how he does this season. If he develops his footballing brain and shows the talent everybody knows he has consistently, then you'd be a fool to sell him.

If, however, he continues the way he has, then get rid.
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Are you serious?

Nani has done nothing bad enough to even warrant suggesting he should leave. He's inconsistent like any young winger. Giggs was like that when he was younger. Remember Fletcher 4 seasons ago, he was far worse than nani.
 
Psmith said:
Are you serious?

Nani has done nothing bad enough to even warrant suggesting he should leave. He's inconsistent like any young winger. Giggs was like that when he was younger. Remember Fletcher 4 seasons ago, he was far worse than nani.
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Nani isn't living upto his potential as a £17m winger, hardly played last season (ask yourself why), and has yet to really do anything of particular note in this. He was subbed off in the Stoke game, with Fergie aiming some post match comments in his direction. I think he is getting slightly frustrated with him, to be honest, and as I said, if there isn't a substantial improvement from him this season I can see him leaving.

The next month is important for him, we have Sunderland, Bolton and Blackburn at home and he needs to make an impact in those games.
 
esmufc09 said:
has yet to really do anything of particular note in this.
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He's got the vital assist in two of the tightest matches of the season, both the 1-0's against Birmingham and Besiktas. Played well against Arsenal, scored against Wigan. But apart from that, the roads, the aquaduct, the sanitation, the wine .. no Nani hasn't done anything really of particular note.
 
esmufc09 said:
Nani isn't living upto his potential as a £17m winger, hardly played last season (ask yourself why), and has yet to really do anything of particular note in this. He was subbed off in the Stoke game, with Fergie aiming some post match comments in his direction. I think he is getting slightly frustrated with him, to be honest, and as I said, if there isn't a substantial improvement from him this season I can see him leaving.

The next month is important for him, we have Sunderland, Bolton and Blackburn at home and he needs to make an impact in those games.
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His price tag is irrelevant. He had a bad game against Stoke but all players have bad games. He had an excellent first season. He played a decent amount of games last season (28 starts) and his season wasn't that bad as people make out. Last season all our attacking players struggled a bit.

He's definitely better than park and I'd say arguably better than Valencia. He's clearly talented and to even suggest getting rid is premature
 
Psmith said:
His price tag is irrelevant. He had a bad game against Stoke but all players have bad games. He had an excellent first season. He played a decent amount of games last season (28 starts) and his season wasn't that bad as people make out. Last season all our attacking players struggled a bit.

He's definitely better than park and I'd say arguably better than Valencia. He's clearly talented and to even suggest getting rid is premature
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Relax man
 
He's 22 years old and blessed with amazing skills...leave him alone to develop...come back in 3 years and if hes done nothing by then thats the time to start moaning!
 
Anybody else find it concerning he wasn't even given a chance tonight, despite Valencia being a bit rubbish?
 
No fletch was probably brought on because we only had a 1 goal lead.
 
I'm talking prior to that before we got the winner.

Fletcher was obviously brought on to kill the game off; when we were struggling to find a winner and Valencia looked like creating nothing, Nani still wasn't brought on.

Which isn't a very good sign. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
 
And given Giggs' form, he has to play. Unlucky for Nani that he has played the majority of his career on the left. Dont think it will be doing wonders for him to be sitting matches out but... Giggs is too good to be left out and Sir Alex has opted out of using him in central midfield so far this season.
 
esmufc09 said:
I'm talking prior to that before we got the winner.

Fletcher was obviously brought on to kill the game off; when we were struggling to find a winner and Valencia looked like creating nothing, Nani still wasn't brought on.

Which isn't a very good sign. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
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Maybe Giggs/Nani are competing for one spot and Valencia/Park for the other to give a balance. Personally, I'd rather have both Giggs and Nani on the wings.. but yeah.
 
esmufc09 said:
I'm talking prior to that before we got the winner.

Fletcher was obviously brought on to kill the game off; when we were struggling to find a winner and Valencia looked like creating nothing, Nani still wasn't brought on.

Which isn't a very good sign. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
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Valencia was a pretty good outlet and put some good balls in that created a few chances. I think, again, you are being too harsh.
 
datura said:
Valencia was a pretty good outlet and put some good balls in that created a few chances. I think, again, you are being too harsh.
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Valencia was poor today, end of. For the amount of times he had the ball, he created very little. Far too often he ran towards the byline, then either lost it or passed it backwards.

Then he tries to cut in and ends up passing it sideways. Frustrating to say the least. But as mentioned previously, he is 3 months into his United career so I'll certainly give him the benefit of the doubt.

olesmyhero said:
I didn't think Valencia was rubbish. I don't find it concerning that he didn't play. We always looked like we were going to score, and when we had the lead we needed someone to help in defense.
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He was way below where he should have been. Granted we always looked a threat but we could of been doing more down the right hand side, because Valencia just wasn't delivering.

It'll be interesting to see who starts against Sunderland in any case. One of them needs to step up.
 
esmufc09 said:
It'll be interesting to see who starts against Sunderland in any case. One of them needs to step up.
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I think Nani will play against Sunderland. I think maybe another reason Valencia was playing was so that he can get used to CL football. It was only his 2nd match and Nani's played in a CL final, so maybe SAF is just letting Valencia get experience before the knockout stages and on. Maybe.
 
esmufc09 said:
Valencia was poor today, end of. For the amount of times he had the ball, he created very little. Far too often he ran towards the byline, then either lost it or passed it backwards.

Then he tries to cut in and ends up passing it sideways. Frustrating to say the least. But as mentioned previously, he is 3 months into his United career so I'll certainly give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Sometimes I don't think you understand the game very well. What's the point in attempting a cross if they defender is blocking it or if there is no one available in the box?

Against Besitkas he was criticised for putting the ball in aimlessly, now you are criticising him for being more measured and retaining possession, as most wingers would do in that position.

He put in a number of good crosses, creating a few half chances, cut in and varied his game a bit, beat his man, worked back well and as I said provided a good outlet. He wasn't brilliant by any means but to say he was 'poor' is pretty clueless to be honest.
 
olesmyhero said:
I think Nani will play against Sunderland. I think maybe another reason Valencia was playing was so that he can get used to CL football. It was only his 2nd match and Nani's played in a CL final, so maybe SAF is just letting Valencia get experience before the knockout stages and on. Maybe.
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That's a fair point. Still, if after 70 minutes Valencia is having a below-par game you would still expect him to be taken off and a replacement brought on. Put simply, we didn't have one and Fergie obviously didn't feel confident enough in Nani. If Ronaldo was on the bench as opposed to Nani, you can be rest assured Valencia would have been hauled off long before the final whistle.

datura said:
Sometimes I don't think you understand the game very well. What's the point in attempting a cross if they defender is blocking it or if there is no one available in the box?

Against Besitkas he was criticised for putting the ball in aimlessly, now you are criticising him for being more measured and retaining possession, as most wingers would do in that position.

He put in a number of good crosses, creating a few half chances, cut in and varied his game a bit, beat his man, worked back well and as I said provided a good outlet. He wasn't brilliant by any means but to say he was 'poor' is pretty clueless to be honest.
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It's all well and good him retaining possession, but he did it far too often yesterday and ended up losing it. Far too much he ran straight towards the byline, and then ended up losing it or passing it backwards and losing the initiative. Granted sometimes it's better to wait for a player and play it backwards, but not as often as he seems to do it. It'd be great if he could just play a first-time cross in sometimes; at the moment he is far too predictable a player.
 
esmufc09 said:
Valencia was poor today, end of. For the amount of times he had the ball, he created very little. Far too often he ran towards the byline, then either lost it or passed it backwards.

Then he tries to cut in and ends up passing it sideways. Frustrating to say the least. But as mentioned previously, he is 3 months into his United career so I'll certainly give him the benefit of the doubt..
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Bloody hell, Elvis, stick to the general, eh?

As for Nani, I suggest you don't judge him in a game in which he doesn't actually play. He'll probably get the nod against Sunderland, why not watch that game first and then decide how well he's played? Just a thought like.
 
Sorry, I forgot we were in a forum where everybody had to agree with each other.

Valencia was excellent.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bloody hell, Elvis, stick to the general, eh?

As for Nani, I suggest you don't judge him in a game in which he doesn't actually play. He'll probably get the nod against Sunderland, why not watch that game first and then decide how well he's played? Just a thought like.
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Eh? I've not judged him at all. I'm just asking whether or not anybody finds it concerning that despite Valencia being below-par and struggling to create anything, Nani still wasn't brought on and given a chance. Valencia had lots of the ball last night, and should have created more than he did. I don't see what is so debatable about that?
 
esmufc09 said:
Sorry, I forgot we were in a forum where everybody had to agree with each other.

Valencia was excellent.
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Not everybody has agree but it would nice if everybody used their fecking eyes for a start.

Valencia had a mediocre to poor first half (apart from being involved in one fantastic move with Rooney and Berbatov, as well as putting one dangerous cross into the box) and looked completely over-awed by his European home debut In the second half he was much better and put in a string of dangerous crosses, including putting one on a plate for Vidic (of all people, more's the pity) What stood out last night, in fact, was that his final ball was much better than it was in his last CL game when he was beating his full-back for fun but fecking up when he hit the by-line.

He's a player that will be important for us this season and so long as he was being relatively productive it made total sense to keep him on until the end. That will have given his confidence a boost and given him much-needed experience alongside his new team-mates.

By all means disagree with my opinion about whether or not he had a good game (I don't think he was great but it was a reasonable, 6/10, performance) but don't come out with shit like "Valencia was poor, end of" then whine about people not being open to alternative opinions, because that would make you a hypocrite.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Valencia had a mediocre to poor first half (apart from being involved in one fantastic move with Rooney and Berbatov, as well as putting one dangerous cross into the box) and looked completely over-awed by his European home debut In the second half he was much better and put in a string of dangerous crosses, including putting one on a plate for Vidic (of all people, more's the pity) What stood out last night, in fact, was that his final ball was much better than it was in his last CL game when he was beating his full-back for fun but fecking up when he hit the by-line.
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He had 1 or 2 good crosses in the second half, but he had plenty of the ball and should have done more. On those occassions when he crossed the ball early (of which there were very few), and not run with it, his crossing looked good as you said. But far too often he kept a hold of the ball too long, ran straight towards the byline as you said and then ended up fecking the chance.

He's a player that will be important for us this season and so long as he was being relatively productive it made total sense to keep him on until the end. That will have given his confidence a boost and given him much-needed experience alongside his new team-mates.
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There's no doubting he will be an important player for us. And I must stress I'm not judging him on how I think he will be for the rest of the season. I just think he had a below-par game yesterday, struggled to create enough opportunities for the amount of the ball he had, and was surprised that despite this Nani wasn't brought on. The bump of this thread wasn't to discuss Valencia's performance (Because as we've both said, it's far too early for a definitive judgement and he does need time to settle), it was to discuss whether or not anybody else found it rather worrying for Nani that he wasn't given even 15 minutes on the pitch when we were looking for a winner to come on and create something.

If Ronaldo was on the bench; do you think Valencia would have been replaced?

By all means disagree with my opinion about whether or not he had a good game (I don't think he was great but it was a reasonable, 6/10, performance) but don't come out with shit like "Valencia was poor, end of" then whine about people not being open to alternative opinions, because that would make you a hypocrite.
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Granted, the '..end of' part of my comment was unnecessary.
 
esmufc09 said:
If Ronaldo was on the bench; do you think Valencia would have been replaced?
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Possibly, but he wasn't.

I don't think the fact that SAF stuck with Valencia as long as he did should be a reflection on Nani. Fletcher was the obvious replacement when we needed to shore things up and hauling Valencia off any earlier than he did would have been counter-productive, for all sorts of reasons.
 
esmufc09 said:
That's a fair point. Still, if after 70 minutes Valencia is having a below-par game you would still expect him to be taken off and a replacement brought on. Put simply, we didn't have one and Fergie obviously didn't feel confident enough in Nani. If Ronaldo was on the bench as opposed to Nani, you can be rest assured Valencia would have been hauled off long before the final whistle.
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I do agree that Valencia was a bit disappointing in the first half, but as we came to the stage where SAF normally starts making changes Valencia was starting to cause them some trouble. He was running at them more often and linking up well in attacking areas, so it would've been hard to sub him just as he was starting to have a real impact.

Hard on Nani though, he does need his chance as well.
 
Must have watched a different game then.
I thought Valencia did pretty well yesterday, apart from is feck up in front of goal.

BTW as far as Nani is concerned: Giggs is just too good atm to be left out of the starting line-up in big games and I think those two are in for the same place.

Pretty sure he will play against SUnderland though.
 
Valencia had one of his best games for us.
Skinned his man several times, some good one touch passing, nice flicks,
got stuck in, good crosses and should have scored one.
 
Valencia as had a couple of opportunities to score goals in the last two appearances and while he's fluffed them its encouraging to see him getting those chances.

I think he just needs to grow into his role within the team, and that generally takes time.
 
Tumbling-Dice;6940296[B said:
]He's got the vital assist in two of the tightest matches of the season, both the 1-0's against Birmingham and Besiktas.[/B] Played well against Arsenal, scored against Wigan. But apart from that, the roads, the aquaduct, the sanitation, the wine .. no Nani hasn't done anything really of particular note.
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Having a shot saved by a keeper is not an assist.
 
Nani started the season well and has had a couple of poor outings recently. Hopefully just a blip rather than a sign of things to come.
 
Well Nani has a usual frusterating first half but whatever fergie said at half made him come out with something to prove.

His decision making was excellent and the number of dangerous balls were more than all of the attempts hes had all season. His corners were good and when he lost the ball, he more often than not tried to get it back. Well done nani, hes taken alot of stick from people who want him gone or think he has one last season but if he can keep this going then it will just make us better.

One thing I do hope to see is Nani getting a run of games. It will be hard with multiple games in the league, in europe and for the national team but confidence is starting to grow and he needs to roll with it. Kind of like carrick, who i thought he would start today after looking better and scoring on wed. Instead any confidence for finding his feet could have been dashed by benching him.
 
Yeah, second half was much better. Bested only by Berbatov on the day. Its not that his crossing is amazing, because half the time it isnt... Its just that he is the only one of our other wingers who comes even close to Giggs' delivery at the current point in time.
 
He makes such unintelligent runs off the ball, just plays into the defenders' hands.
 
Ekeke said:
Yeah, second half was much better. Bested only by Berbatov on the day. Its not that his crossing is amazing, because half the time it isnt... Its just that he is the only one of our other wingers who comes even close to Giggs' delivery at the current point in time.
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He seems to have to have stopped pissing about on the ball and putting the crosses in much earlier which is one of the main issues with 08-09 Nani.

Was a much better player in the 2nd half and looked a real handful. Pleased for the lad, but he needs to keep that level of performance going for next game. I agree with MST3K, he needs a run of games to get the confidence going.
 
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