Well, except it's not really your side is it? Kind of undermine's your whole FMish arguement.
Owen Hargreaves | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter umair
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
Well, except it's not really your side is it? Kind of undermine's your whole FMish arguement.
The basic distinction being that fans can be fans, but they don't get to spend the clubs money. If its not your money then you have no say in the matter.
Still not really your side is it? I believe it belongs to some guy called Glazer. If we're being pedantic and all.
Maybe you could help me out. Where does the club get it's money?
Feel better if it was written in ink.
Hope it's true, I have missed Hargreaves for both United and England.
In this instance, being pedantic is appropriate because being a fan, a ticket holder, or buyer of club merchandise isn't tantamount to having any say in who the club buys. You can support any club to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, it doesn't give you any legal or moral justification to decide who it buys.
I once asked a girl on a date. She said she'd pencil me in. That was three years ago. We're getting married in September. Pencils are good. Have no fear.
I don't recall saying or intimating that I did. Just that the club had not received value for money. Obviously me saying we made you think that I was demanding my money back. It's funny the same rules of pedantry don't apply to your own posts.
You said he was a flop. Or as you put it now, "the club hasn't received value for money". I wasn't suggesting that you were demanding your money back. I was suggesting that calling a player a flop based on what other people do with their money is pointless. Its speaks to the whole FM mentality where fans superimpose their fantasies about what a player should cost into the real world. Realistically however, we have no say in the matter.
If someone believes strongly about something, then to them personally - its the end of the matter - the minds made up. Same as a woman feeling protected by her man. Until something happens that breaks that feeling then the feeling remains. Hargreaves hasnt shifted my opinion that he makes our team harder to beat & that he gives extra-confidence that a good result can always be achieved!
Folk need to get away from price-tags, its not his fault Bayern held out for the lolly they got. You shouldnt be beating Hargreaves over the head with the price to determine if his signing was a good one or bad one. It initially (first season) was a great signing & since then its been unfortunate for him & the Club. Seems like some folk are waiting for the chance to say "I told you so", if the worst possible news materialised regarding Hargreaves long-term fitness!
I'm sorry but that post has no basis in what I said or infact in reality.
By your definition a player can never be described as a flop or waste of money.
His injury record was also bad at Bayern - thats why many question the price tag.
Hes a very good player, but for £17mil, we could have bought someone as good with no longterm injury record.
So anyway, regardless of all that has happened so far, I am very interested in next Thursday getting here.
Will be happy for Hargreaves himself more than anything. Will be a big step for him if he plays some football. We all anguish about how much money was spent on him and how his lack of confidence is not helping the team. To me seems the type of player that feel that even more than us supporters.
Money is spent, we aren't ever getting it back, now lets just hope for United and his sake it's the comeback quite a few have been waiting for.
Will be happy for Hargreaves himself more than anything. Will be a big step for him if he plays some football. We all anguish about how much money was spent on him and how his lack of confidence is not helping the team. To me seems the type of player that feel that even more than us supporters.
Money is spent, we aren't ever getting it back, now lets just hope for United and his sake it's the comeback quite a few have been waiting for.
For me, calling a player a flop has to be in some way tied to his performance on the pitch. His price tag is not the primary issue. Liam Miller was a flop, Hargreaves is a very good player with the misfortune of a serious injury. We should get behind him instead of labeling him a flop or suggesting his career is over because he doesn't come back on our preferred timeline.
With you on that.
Best of luck to Owen.
It may be very very optormistic, but if we had him fit, available and playing well for the last 6 weeks of the season, it would be a huge boost.
It would be like signing a new player. (Footballing cliche no. 197).
It's not proof though. Just opinion. A matter like this can't be proved or disproved.
I don't blame him for the price tag or the injuries. That doesn't change the fact that for a number of reasons his signing has not been value for money. It depends on how you judge a flop. Hargreaves was occassionaly good in his first season but his perfromances were not great and for me a signing coming with his reputation and price tag should be performing better and given the club more game time. Like it or not a price will always hav a baring on a player being judged. For example if he was a free transfer then nobody would be unhappy.
Yeah, agree completely.
With Anderson out for the season, having Hargreaves available could be the difference between winning major honours and not.
It would also be sweet to finally have someone who is a threat from set-pieces.
His performances though were not as good as we had the right to expect. Like I've already said a player's price will always be used when rating his impact. I am behind him and hope he can get his fitness back but should he not then for me his signing will had been a failure.
Spot on.
Frankly he's had so much time out it really isn't worth risking him this season. Let him play a few reserve matches. Get a full pre-season under his belt and comeback stronger next year.
Only in your opinion.
Yeah many questioned the price tag alright, but we knew we were gettin a good player, the type of player we didnt have man. As regard the injuries at Bayern, is it any wonder he was out, when they obviously didnt take it seriously enough for possible exploratory surgery. He had the problem when he arrived & after one season United decided he needed major surgery & long-term rehab. He was at Bayern for 7/8 seasons, yet they never planned for the future - only the now!
The hope of the surgery & rehab is that it will prolong his career & get him back to the player he was & that, although a possible cure cannot be obtained, he can atleast offer himself for selection for the first team for many years to come!
Well I am sure SAF will judge it as he sees it, but I would think that is what he would like to do
Might be the prudent way to proceed but, as Pogue mentioned and was also one of my first thoughts, would we actually have on the pitch a person that can take a good set piece? Just for that I'd like to see him on the pitch, am that frustrated with the poor quality of our set pieces.
Let's see how he plays next week before making assumptions he's going to be of use for the 1st team this season. One would hope towards the end of the year we might see him, but right now it's a matter of getting match fit, match confident and getting back into the swing of things as such.
I can envisage that next Thursday might just see a bumper crowd at Altrincham to see the return of the curly haired one. If only to remind ourselves what he looks like.
I can envisage that next Thursday might just see a bumper crowd at Altrincham to see the return of the curly haired one. If only to remind ourselves what he looks like.
Its proof for me tho. Backs up my feelings on the matter that when Hargreaves played - we had increased energy, experience & a better chance of winning or holding out in the game!
Man, you dont like him. Thats the end of story for you. Also, the price-tag thingy you cling to is narrow-minded. feck the money side of things - you cant judge someone on the basis of the purchase price to performances. Its like a player bought for £3.5m & is inconsistent, yet the fact he was bought cheaply excludes him from being classed as a flop due to the small value we paid for him. Its as if the price paid is supposed is a barometer for how good the player will / should be. Nonsense. Highest bidder wins / pay what the selling club want is the order of the day!
I thought Hargreaves did an excelent job for us in his first season. How often did people say Berbatov needed a season to settle in because it was his first season, Hargreaves did fine. He wouldn't be a flop based on performances, just number of appearances.
You've got me. I hate him, that's the only possible reason I wouldn't agree with your view. Seriously, there are people on this forum who can't get their head round a different viewpoint. Price of a player will always have an impact on how their success is judged. A perfect example is Berbatov. Had he cost 5 million people would be delighted with his contribution to date.
I'm guessing not just in my opinion. Though you are correct that it is not fact.
If somebody can present a compelling arguement as to why it has been value for money or not then I'd be delighted to debate it rather than the pathetic 'you hate him' arguement's that happen on this forum all too regularly.
Im not sure of the ins and out while he was at Bayern, but i know he was missed out on an awful lot of games. Im not sure if they could have done more to help him or not.
They may have been aware of long term problem he may have been carrying.
Not going to sway you but, I think it's hard to say value for money till/when they are retired or have left the club.
If judging by so far then, you've got a valid argument but, he isn't done yet. For what he helped us achieve in that first season, it was good that we had him. If he does manage to play even 25 games a season for the next 3-4 years, I think he'll be worth the money. He was a quality player and even 80% of what he was IMO will do us well.
Nothing to sway. By and large I agree with you. That's why I originally said that so fr we have not had our money's worth. I hope he comes back and returns to form but I have doubs that after so long out that will happen.
The thing is thought it's all a matter of opinion. So no compelling argument can come into it. Because there are those like me who feel he had a good first season and significantly contributed to our overall success that year, while there are those like you who don't.
So the most we can do is wait and see what he will be like when he returns. Rather than labeling him a flop or not.
You can give a compelling arguement as to why you believe something rather than the patheitc you hate him route. It's unlikely to ever change an opinion of someone else but then that's not really the point. If all we can do is sit and wait then there is little point in this thread.
He hasn't provided value for money given injuries and a rather unconvincing set of appearances at the start of his United career (new environment, and aforementioned injuries obviously contributing to that)
However..
If he had been fit I think it's safe to assume he would have proved a good purchase by now.
good news about hargreaves hope he can push on from here.
Great news, I'm really happy for the guy.
The ''you hate him'' business is merely just opinion. Derived from what people have seen you say about him.
People take what you say in different ways.
Basically all we can really do is sit and wait. & this thread isn't pointless. On the contrary, it was here to keep us updated on the lad's progress. Not for us to discuss the pros and cons of his transfer, whether or not we think he will ever recover, or who ''loves' or ''hates' him, which it has degenerated into.
Agreed. I pray this isn't a false dawn for him.
I knew I'd find you out
I take your point because thats how you feel about the Hargreaves situation. My view is that he contributed a helluva lot in his first season & I felt we looked very solid. If we had him back in contention for the rest of the season I'd be fecking delighted & even more confident that we'd take the Prem & Champions League.
Imagine having Hargreaves, Carrick & Fletch in the middle of the park with 15 minutes to go in the Champs Final - thats the type of artillery we'd close the game out with!
A player has no control over the price a team wants to pay for him, so therefore, I think its unfair to judge him on the tag, instead it should be based on the duration of the contract because thats a major part of the deal, then the player is a free agent!
As regards to Berbatov, i'm not to bothered about the price-tag & I feel he's done grand & been exceptional in other instances, so overall I feel he's been a worthy addition. His passin is sublime & link up play too, the goals havent flowed I know, but we live in hope that he can chip in with his own fair share, otherwise its gonna be 4-5-1 from now til end of season & Rooney's gonna be fecked!
Completely agree. It would be a massive boost especially with Anderson out. If he got fit, he would be a super addition.
I won't believe it until I see it with my own eyes and I won't hold my breath either. I don't expect it, so if it happens, it will be a massive bonus!
- Status