Quatar? WTF 
Can understand Russia tbh, but not Quatar, absolutely farcical.
Can understand Russia tbh, but not Quatar, absolutely farcical.
World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah but everyone got a low risk for that
Yeah, but from Qatar's perspective, it's like the 8th wonder of the world.
I'm not sure it'll be to the detriment of folk in this country or Spain or any other footballing power house. We've already got the best facilities in the world and a domestic league that's perhaps the greatest on the planet.
If thats a crime, shoot me for it.
I may just do that.
I guess we're just at polar opposites on that... I'm quite insular about football - it seems to me that the more it gets pushed onto people who weren't previously interested as "the worlds game", the more it gets diluted into a bland marketing driven pile of shite... similar to (Anglo-)American dominance of pop music and cinema. It's Starbucks and McDonalds on a football pitch.
I can't help but think that without the globalisation of the Premier League "product" we wouldn't have half the problems we do now with money-grabbing owners and shit atmospheres.
Exactly... and I said basics, not extensive knowledge.
I fail to see how banishing homosexuals is anything to do with CULTURE.
In fact, what happens if there is a openly gay superstar come 2022? Will he be not allowed to compete?
Yeah, but that was counterweighted by their footballing heritage. If there is one country outside of Europe that has always been "football crazy", it's Brazil.
The Maracana is a legendary venue, and history's best / most famous footballer is Brazillian.
Qatar, meanwhile...
It is too our detriment because it us we who built football and we who sustain it year after year but we have to watch what is supposed to be the biggest show in football go to the wilderness.
FIFA's stated mission is to 'Develop the game, touch the world, build a better future'. Yes, it has an 'imperialist' nature, but its is just like any other global organisation.
by 'we', I mean the footballing fraternity of the world, those with an interest of the game of football.
I think its good for football (and good for the world) to have more people understand and enjoy football as much as we all do. Its a wonderful game and makes lives more fulfilling by participating in some way.
If thats a crime, shoot me for it.
Another mission is to kick racism in to touch. Have you been to a Russian league match recently?
They are in a whole 'nother universe are FIFA.
Another mission is to kick racism in to touch. Have you been to a Russian league match recently?
Kick Ruscism into Touch
Damn right. I love it when people try to pass off oppressive rules from the dark ages as "somebody's culture, which we should respect".
So the higher the risk the better? Perhaps that's the message.
Next time England tries to bid, they should propose playing the games with no referee on concrete surfaces. The government should not support the bid, in fact, the government should openly announce they oppose the bid.
Another mission is to kick racism in to touch. Have you been to a Russian league match recently?
Another mission is to kick homophobia out of football so Qatar makes perfect sense
I fail to see how banishing homosexuals is anything to do with CULTURE.
In fact, what happens if there is a openly gay superstar come 2022? Will he be not allowed to compete?
Why hasn't there been an openly gay superstar till now? If there is one...he has stayed in the closet till now, and will continue to do so in Qatar. And it will have nothing to do with their national policies on homosexuality.
If he does come out, he probably won't be able to compete because his national teammates will give him shit for it.
We should also show them a copy of the latest Virgin trains reliability report, focus on how swiftly and on budget we built Wembley, then let them spend the night in a £100 a night Travellodge...
Right, take apartheid South Africa, was that a cultural belief that should have been respected? Was it a belief that was as correct as any other?
You are very biased and are refusing to take anything at all in, so this is pointless.
Worst comparison ever.
You do know that England invented cricket and have consistently been amongst the top three or four countries in the world in terms of both playing and watching for the sports entire history, right?
You do know that Ian Botham won Sports Personality of the year in 1981, David Steele in 1975 and Jim Laker in 1956 (Gooch came 3rd in 1990, in case you're wondering about the gap)?
How about the fact that prior to the year 2000, 4 of the top 10 all-time test run scorers were English (only an indication of the mountain of player stats you could find to show how integral England are to the history of cricket)?
Do you know which country hosts the stadium internationally accepted as the "home of cricket"? Have a guess.
That wasn't how I meant it, I meant that it brought in new fans to the game and will breed new players in the future, and yes I will also add that the general feeling towards cricket changed, with a lower proportion now spouting out the old line of "it takes 5 days ergo it must be shit"
Damn right. I love it when people try to pass off oppressive rules from the dark ages as "somebody's culture, which we should respect".
Some things even our 'progressive' nation are only a just a few years ahead of others. Lets not get cute here. Specifically racism and homophobia which were both rampant in English football less than 15 years ago.
Just because things are more manageable now (but by no means banished or a thing of the past) does not mean that anything has been solved.
And perhaps engagement with the world through tournaments like the World Cup will help transform Russia's racist opinions and the Middle East lack of acceptance of homosexuality. Surely that is a good thing?
yes, something this country helped create in the first place!
Perhaps there will be a star coming to the end of his career making a point about it.
The point that is being missed is this. Nobodies arguing against Russia. I've said that the fairest choice would be Russia. There wasn't a bidding nation in 2018 that didn't deserve it. Qatar for all the millions it pumps in will not be creating a legacy throughout the Arab nations. It is creating a tourist attraction that once it's over will quickly dwindle and return to the status quo, there will be no sudden rise of popularity and creation of leagues that weren't there before. There will only be the chance to watch the worlds greatest players for a few weeks then returning to carrying on watching them play in their respective teams in what ever countries they are in and supporting those teams. Once it's over it will be the same. No sudden emergence of new proffesional leagues all over the Arab world that aren't already there. There will be no sudden uprise in Arab children dreaming of playing in that tournament because it's one small nation and Qatar, are more than likely going to be the only one in the region qualifying. If the Qatar bid was instead a joint bid with various Arab Nations, meaning that Europe and South america may have lost a qualifying place at the final, I'd have happily endorsed.
What is a major annoying point is, if Fifas new remit is to give the game to new territories then thats what should be stated, theres no point in bidding nations spending vast sums of money when they were never in with a chance anyway and ignoring those nations that have a core support of footballers that have all helped Fifa earn their money in the past, who want to host the games in their country. Creating a criteria to decide which is the best bidding nation is also moot. What should happen is Fifa should take the initial bids within a matter of months and let it be known who they want to host it as in accordance to their new branding guidelines. That way other nations will know straight away and can happily drop out at an earlier point without spending so much time and money over a period of years. The only down side to this from Fifas point of view is they won't be getting any money or kickbacks throughout the whole lobbying period.
As for the England legacy, it wasn't aimed at just the English development but more at the charity work that the English game gives to the world that is near to being equal to the amount that Fifa gives as a whole and would benefit Fifas charity work as well.
Lastly why is my dream of taking my daughter to see a world cup game in my country any less valid than any others. Am I being elitist or Imperialistic?
I think that's one of the reasons why we won't ever win the right to host the WC. Arrogance. As I said, we're already a footballing superpower....but FIFA want to take the game to new frontiers. It's as simple as that really. Whether you agree or disagree is another matter. Truth is we already follow a great product....something which I think is much better than international football. So, I don't think we're going to suffer in the long run. C'est la vie.
Or Argentinian! but I see your point. I suspect it was South America's turn. Just as it's Eastern Europe's turn in 2018 and the Middle East in 2020. Again, perhaps we should rotate high risk bids with low risk ones, I don't know....but it's something that FIFA seemingly don't agree with.
Do they seriously not take into the effect how bad the host team is when making this decision is? South Africa were mocked, but at least they had shown odd glimpses of being able to compete and more importantly having good players. What good players has Qatar produced, and why is that going to change in the next 8 years, unless they are thinking of taking a full team of teens, then all their prospects are out there and not winning youth tournaments from my knowledge, 2022 is gonna be shambolic, Russia will be ok though, though obviously I'm upset we didn't get it and neither did Spain.
If you want to branch out, surely Australia would of been the logical choice, new host nation, a team that consistently held their own quite well in 3 world cups now, rofl at it all.
If you want to branch out, surely Australia would of been the logical choice, new host nation, a team that consistently held their own quite well in 3 world cups now, rofl at it all.
England is not the only country to have ever contributed to footballs development! Its argued that China invented it and Italy, Spain, Brazil, Uruguay and Germany can argue that they have also made just as significant a contribution.
And English football will not suffer any 'detriment' from not hosting the world cup, as I wrote in other posts, football in this country will continue to be a great form of entertainment central to the lives of many people.
Oh, that's OK then.
I think we may be getting closer than you think to footballers coming out... it's happened fairly out of the blue in rugby and Irish-violent-ball-sport-thing recently.
Only 20 years ago pop stars like Geroge Michael and Elton John felt it necesary to stay in the closet. I can quite imagine people looking back at photos like this and thinking it just as ridiculous:
Will Qatar have game time kickoffs at certain times to avoid their evening prayer ritual?
There may have been homophobic chants, but that isn't exactly the same as a LAW against it. In fact, don't they stone people to death?
It's clear that FIFA thinks way to much of itself:
"Build a better future. Football is no longer considered merely a global sport, but also as unifying force whose virtues can make an important contribution to society. We use the power of football as a tool for social and human development, by strengthening the work of dozens of initiatives around the globe to support local communities in the areas of peacebuilding, health, social integration, education and more."
Lets look at South Africa in a year and see those giant empty stadiums surrounded by slums. Way to go FIFA!
"Build a better future. Football is no longer considered merely a global sport, but also as unifying force whose virtues can make an important contribution to society. We use the power of football as a tool for social and human development, by strengthening the work of dozens of initiatives around the globe to support local communities in the areas of peacebuilding, health, social integration, education and more."
Lets look at South Africa in a year and see those giant empty stadiums surrounded by slums. Way to go FIFA!
China clearly didn't invent the game. I suspect even homo erectus kicked a ball against a wall....just before making his way out of Africa.
How is that arrogance or does FIFA not understand the role of Western Europe in football? It was Blatter himself who referred to England as 'the motherland of football' which was something you did not hear in the English presentation at all. The fact that the United States, Australia, South Korea and Japan were beaten out by Qatar and quite decisively says it has nothing to do with English perceptions at all.
And why let developed football nations bid then? Why tell they they are the lowest risk or have the best commercial package, why come to Downing Street, with the red carpet laid out and for that matter in alpha cities across the World if you have no intention whatsoever of giving the world cup to such countries?
Let's be fair, it was probably a severed head but yeah the intent is the same.
Just a random thought, wouldn't seeing their national side trashed 3 times at home put generations of Qataris from football?
They obviously didn't take note that England as part of our bid was going to invest as much in social and community programmes around the world as FIFA does.
Why should they consider that? It makes not a jot of difference to how good hosts they will be, neither of their competitors exactly had a chance of winning it did they?
No, why would it? They get to watch the best players on earth at there doorsteps, they will find more love from the game from that without a shadow of doubt.
And if they do well and host a fantastic world cup I would love to see your reaction.
They will probably have 5 brazilians and 5 argentinians playing for them cause of that i dont think they will get trashed.
My point was we shouldn't be looking at the past...but the future. Sure England invented the game...but we don't need to ram it down everyone's throats each time we bid for the WC. And yes, I agree....I don't see the point of us bidding. Then again, isn't there anything more we could've done? as I said above, perhaps we should've used the London Olympic bid as an example of how to push the regeneration/legacy angle. As Rood said above, we completely misread what FIFA were looking for.
I bet it was more fun!
I never said was it was ok.
I honestly don't give a shit. How many gay sportsmen have come out period? Whatever the country or sport... very very few. NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL in the US barely have a handful collectively. NBA had one, and he only came out after he retired, and said it was because of the locker room atmosphere.
So I responded to his gay footballer query by saying it wouldn't be an issue, seeing as how his own teammates would make hell for him.
But the bounce was a fecking nightmare!