Yep, got my vote for best non United fan again this year.
RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He's an excellent poster, but I think he's wildly wrong on Benitez. As are most of the Caf to be fair. Literally can't leave their bias behind them.
My bias is standing in front of me, literally, like a snowman.
Just the opposite of the scousers and other scouse-affiliated (i.e. alastair, etc.) who canonized Benitez as the second coming of Jesus, while factual evidences point to the other direction.
When you see a post along the lines of "The ruins in which Benitez left Liverpool" you know it's a load of biased drivel. When you see a sensible post in this thread, it's often immediately followed by Bearded But No Genius(a remarkably apt name) coming in with some incredibly unfunny witticism.
That's another classic. Canonizing Benitez as the second coming has not been done by anyone on this site, scouser or otherwise. I think Sam said he thought it was probably time for him to leave. On the Caf, if you give Benitez credit for the CL win, you're apparently a Liverpool fan. It's tragic.
You joined in 2010 alastair, there was plenty of Benitez fans to that effect on here long ago.
Why would Cesc be biased against Benitez?
The fact is he outstayed his welcome at Liverpool and left a pretty average squad behind after 6 years and a decent amount spent.
The other fact is that he has taken over the current European Champions, has them playing shite, and is being threatened with the sack.
Credit to him for winning the CL with Liverpool but that was the height of his career, and it was 5 years ago.
I don't see any reason for Cesc to be biased at all, I wasn't really referring to him.
Fair enough if you're giving him credit for his CL victory - I'm sure if you look back you'll see people claiming it was a complete fluke, and not down to his management at all. I do think it's important to make the point as well that Benitez had Liverpool in two semi-finals and another final, so it wasn't as if it was a one-off tournament.
I agree with you on Inter - although I expected Inter to go down in quality somewhat automatically, the extent to which it has happened has to be attributed to Benitez. It doesn't make him a poor manager though, his record at Valencia and Liverpool(until the last season) was very good. In hindsight, he probably should have taken a year off to regroup.
Big feck you on your face.
It seems it's impossible to make this statement:
Benitez had periods with Liverpool where he took them above and beyond, when they pressed us for the League, pre-retardoview by Rafa, their success in the Champions League, not just the actual trophy itself, but a consistent challenge which is worth noting - These things are not forgotten. However, the argument isn't that he's a completely useless manager who never exhibited any worthy managerial skills. It's that he left Liverpool with a poorer team then he came in with, a legitimate argument. Not only that, but he left the state of the team in a fragile way, it's harder to find zero evidence of this, then the opposite.
Clearly he has qualities, but he did outstay his welcome at Liverpool, and eventually turned them into a team on the decline. Had he left a couple years earlier, the story would be different, but then he would have left with success, not regret and a team playing in the shadow of their former selves.
Benitez had periods with Liverpool where he took them above and beyond, when they pressed us for the League, pre-retardoview by Rafa, their success in the Champions League, not just the actual trophy itself, but a consistent challenge which is worth noting - These things are not forgotten. However, the argument isn't that he's a completely useless manager who never exhibited any worthy managerial skills. It's that he left Liverpool with a poorer team then he came in with, a legitimate argument. Not only that, but he left the state of the team in a fragile way, it's harder to find zero evidence of this, then the opposite.
Clearly he has qualities, but he did outstay his welcome at Liverpool, and eventually turned them into a team on the decline. Had he left a couple years earlier, the story would be different, but then he would have left with success, not regret and a team playing in the shadow of their former selves.
Mostly agree, but the argument that he left Liverpool poorer than when he arrived is ludicrous. There was so much shite that Houllier left which seems to have been forgotten. Yes, it finished 4th, but it wouldn't have finished 4th in 2009.
Though I agree to a certain extent, much of this also came down to G&H bleeding the club dry of all funds.
I don't think he improved the squad as much as he could have when he had funds, but he did improve it steadily, albeit slowly. He obviously had a bit of a brainfart last summer with transfers, but without G&H I doubt this charge could have been levelled at him with anything near the same force.
They are the primary reason we had players like N'gog, Maxi, Kyrgiakos, Kelly and Insua as direct backups to our first 11. That is what could be afforded by then.
Harsh, you would have sacked him after 09?
edit: I am a poor reader. I agree with Alastair, ged's team was worse. Just refresh your memories: Traore, Diao, Biscan, Smicer, Baros, Cisse, Cheyrou, Diouf, Le Tallec, Dudek, Kirkland.
An incredible amount of dross in that team. I do agree that the team he left behind was by no means as good as the one he had the year before it.
I tend to think that Inter's gradual decline since Rafa took over is more to do with Jose's famed "scorched earth" policy (ibid Alan Davies).
In fairness, even when you factor that in alongside the incredible injuries, you have to say he should be doing better.
Is it clear cut though? No, of course not, certainly not ludicrous. Because on one hand, he came into a side, and with that side, won the Champions league and finished 5th. On the other, he left with his team, which finished 7th, knocked out at Group Stages and a failure to qualify for next years Champions League. He probably left a squad with some better individuals, some stand-out players. Therefore the argument over whether Benitez's quality clearly has a foundation, it's not baseless at all, as some have made out.
I think it's madness to say Benitez was always rubbish, he clearly wasn't. But he left Liverpool in a dire state, and that much wasn't just down to G & H.
I think it's madness to say Benitez was always rubbish, he clearly wasn't. But he left Liverpool in a dire state, and that much wasn't just down to G & H.
You seem to be getting "sensible" and "ridiculously blinkered closet-scouse" confused.
You listen to that podcast as well?
I think it's hilarious, the best football podcast out there in my opinion. My favourite was Alan pretending to be Big Sam coaching the Real Madrid team "Step on the keepers toes Benzeeema!"
WTF are you?
Cringe-worthy stuff... you my friend are about as subtle as a brick in the face.
You'd think he'd try to hide it a little more, wouldn't you?
I think it's hilarious as well. Whenever someone goes off on one at Cliche I can't help but laugh.
And the other week when someone got a Braga shirt without Alan on the back "Never send me anything again"
The thing is, and where your argument falls down, is that the Premier League has changed massively in quality since Houllier's day. Finishing 4th in Houllier's last season can not be equated to finishing 4th today. There were fewer challenging teams in that period - now, you have City and Spurs who can genuinely cause Liverpool problems for 4th.
Look at what Houllier is doing at Villa - that pretty much sums up what he's like as a manager when there is genuine competition in the division. This isn't to say finishing 4th six years ago was a cake-walk, but it was clearly easier than it is today.
Please. Stop. E-Stalking. Me. If I posted a picture of me with my Arsenal season ticket would you stop?
Haha, I like Liverpool and would much rather see them succeed than any of the other realistic challengers (bar Arsenal, of course). But the Benitez rubbish that goes on over there is hilarious at best and has gone well past being delusional.
I'd genuinely like to see how they'd react over there if Roy was to steer Liverpool to a higher position than last season, without their best midfielder. No doubt hilarity would ensue as they palm off Roy's contribution and hail Rafa as the 'secret mastermind' or some such rubbish.
I agree. He is in general.
Which is why I am surprised each time he comes out with the "Benitez ruined Liverpool...Benitez ruins every club he goes to..." lark. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but both extremes of the Benitez argument are nonsense in my view. Both some Mancs on here that who say he "ruins every club" to some Liverpool's fans treatment of him as some sort of messiah.
Equivalent of:
Look at what Rafa is doing at Inter - that pretty much sums up what he's like as a manager when there is no genuine competition in the division.
Spurs and Shitty haven't really been a force until last season. So finishing 4rth during Rafa's time was far easier than it is today. Which is why I don't tend to give Benitez as much credit as some do for giving them regular UCL football.
It can be argued that the two times he really faced a stiff challenge for the top 4 i.e. in his first and last seasons he failed to deliver.
E-stalking? Add Drama Llama to your list of Caf credentials.
When you post idiotic things, or spend an inordinate amount of time posting cringe-worthy Rafa deification nonsense on a United forum, you're going to get teased over your stupidity from time to time.
If you really do have an Arsenal season ticket, then you're an extremely strange little man.
I neglected to mention the rise of Chelsea as well - that made a big difference on what expectations could/should have been at Liverpool.
Also, it's a bit harsh to blame Benitez for the first season. That side really wasn't great, but it's fair enough to blame him for the last. Hodgson really does have a tough task ahead of him, principally because, as you say, there's even more competition now than there was when Benitez was around.
From time to time
. It's every bloody post I make in here - despite the fact I disagree with a lot of what is said in here, it's good debate and banter, mostly. Apart from when you post, which is invariable just a smiley/oh you're a Liverpool fan gag, which get boring and are bordering on spamming. Just shut up, or contribute to the thread in a proper way. Thank-you.Also eating a hat with a very intelligent expression
With their resources, Liverpool should always be at least a top 4 club. Anything else is a failure.
Benitez finished 3rd twice and 2nd and fourth once. That's acceptable. 5th place was understandable. 7th was a shambles.
From time to time
Wrong path to go down.
Does it though, Hectic? Can you expand on that?
Well, I don't exactly want to say it, but it is pretty undeniable if you look back through all the football threads in which I post. I'm willing to just leave it though, I guess that's what the ignore function is for.
What's that, Spammy? You want my vote for worst non United fan?
Nah, you're not that bad!
How many of my 60,000 posts have anything at all even remotely to do with you?
How many of your posts have I responded to?
Get over yourself.
Spams is by far the best non-United fan. Mind you, I suspect he's got a soft spot for us after all.
About 50. Which is quite a lot. But whatever, I just don't think you're remotely constructive when it comes to debating football with me, which is bizarre principally because elsewhere you seem to be a good poster. But I'll just leave it, because I don't want to derail the thread.
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